ER-4P less detailed highs

[markod]

This is the followup of my previous post about the wierd problem I have with my new Ety ER-4P.

I was comparing the sound with 3 different other headphones (Apple original, Grado 225, Philips 3396). I think my seal is ok. I have tried the fomies too.

My conclusions:

The bass response (surprisingly) and mids on ER-4P are excellent which is in line with the majority of reviews.

There is a noticeable difference in high end.
Cymbal lines on Grado and Philips are clear, loud and natural while on ER-4P they are less present, more quiet, mixed with other sounds, less separated, more difficult to hear and with less detail. I find cymbal sounds are actually comparable with Apple iPod phones.

After reading all the reviews I'm sure there is something wrong here - highs should more then compete with the best headphones on the market.

Possible reasons:
- they are faulty,
- the higs and separation are inferior to regular sized phones (unlikely, all the reviews are saying the opposite),
- I have a very specific seal problem (maybe some ear pressure, I don't know because the bass and mids are ok...)

Anyone else having the same experience?
Any ideas what to do?
I would really like to

 

[Vertigo-1]

Might want to take a glance at this thread:

http://www6.head-fi.org/forums/showthread.php?t=136476

But long story short, there's nothing wrong with your 4Ps...the 4Ps DO have a rather rolled off treble. You'll have to migrate to either the 4S or 4B to get the treble back into balance.

 

[markod]

Now this is a big surprise.

After reading hundreds of reviews raving about ER-4P exceptional treble, now I hear that their treble is rolled off. I was completely misinformed.

 

[warpdriver]

Quote:

Originally Posted by markod Now this is a big surprise. After reading hundreds of reviews raving about ER-4P exceptional treble, now I hear that their treble is rolled off. I was completely misinformed.

No, it *really* could be that your personal fit at work here. Some people find the ER4 searingly bright with elevated treble response. What is true is that the treble does roll off above 16Khz but that does not come into play much listening to music.

Also, you are comparing the ER4's to Grado's. Grado's are not even close to being flat and neutral in the highs....they have a prominent treble peak of 12dB in the mid treble. If you find that the Philips sounds similar to the Grado, then the Philips is not accurate either. If you compare the ER4's to something warmer, you'll actually find the treble is not that recessed.

So I think what you are hearing is a combination of fit, and comparing it to headphones with exaggerated treble.

As you can see, I own the SR225's, and yes, the treble of the ER4 is a bit smoother, more relaxed compared to those. In fact, I like using the ER4's when my ears tire of the edgey (and I would say colored) highs of the SR225. The detail of the ER4's is there, it's just a bit less in your face and balanced.

 

[Old Dave]

The ER4Ps do not have rolled off treble, as dozens of posters on this forum have attested. Don't want to flame, but I can't figure out what this guy is talking about.

 

[DJGeorgeT]

Yes, the ER4P's treble is rolled off in comparison to the ER4S. The mids/treble on the ER4P can also be harsh without an amp or proper source. The best configuration is the ER4S with an amp.

 

[markod]

warpdriver,

this was very helpful. Would you suggest me to compare it with some Sennheiser headphones?

Just to be sure. If I compare the cymbal sound on the tracks like Pink Floyd - Breathe, Comfortable Numb etc. - on 225 it is almost dominating the tracks, it is clear and separate and it sings, while on 4P it is quiet, "somewhere behind" and difficult to hear.

Do you hear the same? You can also propose some other "known" song for comparison.

I would just like to make sure this make sense. It is just strange that I'm the first one to experience this ...

 

[warpdriver]

I use the ER4S. As DJGeorgeT mentioned above, the ER4S which is slightly more extended in the high end than the ER4P (as documented by Etymotics themselves)

But what you're hearing is in the ballpark of what I hear. Cymbals on the SR225 are more prominent sounding than the ER4S I am using. That's partly why people say the Grado's are so good for rock, they really have an edgy sound that gives lots of energy/impact on both highs and lows. I think the ER4S is a more realistic rendering overall though.

If you can find a Sennheiser HD580/600 or 650, you'll find the ER4S treble level to be more in line.

 

[markod]

I just came back from the shop where I had chance to try HD600 and HD485 with my iPod.

HD600, while difficult to drive, were excelent, I could hear "my cymbals" extremely well, no comparison with ER-4P.

HD485, overalll much muddier sound, the cymbals were less prominent, but were there - a bit clearer and louder than on ER-4P.

So, my conclusion is that ER-4P presentation of highs (like cymbals) is inferior to all headphones I tested so far, except maybe to Apple stock buds. I'm still not sure that I don't have faulty phones. Or maybe It is really that the highs on ER-4P are that much rolled off and therefore much more quiet and in the back.

Can anyone confirm this from his experience?

 

[Tim D]

You should still fiddle around more with the seal. And Ety's actually do not really drop dead after 16khz as many people assume, I am still able to hear tones over 16khz with Ety's however after 16khz all measurements are really moot since there really isn't a good standard way to measure it. At that point the shape of your ear and your seal will dictate what the high's really sound like to you. Also not everyone intuitively inserts them the right way, or less likely but very possible that their ears aren't fit for them. After long experience in knowing how to insert them, I have yet to see *any* newcomers insert them proficiently at meets or when I let my friends try.

Also are they a new or used pair? If used you should probably change filters, etc.

 

[Kirosia]

strange, I found the 4p to have too much treble, to the point where it seemed unnatural (not saying it is, but that's how I perceived it). It irrated me.

 

[warpdriver]

I would think that at this point, personal ear canal shape has a lot to do with the sound. Mine sound very balanced. Neither recessed or too bright. And I know bright when I hear it (certain Grado's, Beyers)

 

[markod]

Update: I have finally solved my problem.

On 4YourEars, where I made the purchase, they were very helpful - we even checked the phones and they are not faulty.

After trying the P-S cable I realized that It is true what some people were saying: ER-4P simply have slightly rolled-off highs. Or to be more precise - the enhanced bass and middles are somehow covering the details and transparence.

The detail I was looking for is back on 4S with additional clarity and more relaxed sound. It is also no problem to drive them with the iPod (uncapped), therefore I highly recommend them.

Thanks for the valuable support!

 

[grawk]

You also might want to look for an old SuperMacro (of any vintage really). They really make the etys sing.

 

[warpdriver]

Good to hear you've resolved your problem. It goes to show that that Etymotics wasn't lying about the difference in the P vs the S, they do sound quite different.

I like my S very much, even though I think the bass could be more prominent, but it's always been a nicely balanced can in the mids and highs.