equalizers
Dec 16, 2002 at 4:27 PM Thread Starter Post #1 of 50

kelly

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This isn't something I'll pull the trigger on anytime soon, but I'd like to start researching equalizers and could use help -- especially from any of the pro audio guys here.

I'm not really sure what to look for exactly. Of course, I want something that adds the least amount of its own sound to the system, I imagine the more bands the better and some kind of memory presets would be good. Where is a good place to start reading about EQs for someone who doesn't know *anything at all* about them?
 
Dec 16, 2002 at 5:50 PM Post #2 of 50
kelly, I'm not exactly the pro audio guy that you're looking for, but as you probably know, I've been using EQ's for several months now. I don't listen to phones without an EQ. I'm basically self-taught, because I haven't found much in the way of useful information for folks like you and I who are starting out with EQ's. However, to be honest, I haven't yet spent any time hanging out at this promising Yahoo site for EQ's:

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Parametric-EQ/

Basically I've just spent a lot of time exploring what the features of my EQ's do to the sound, and have settled on what I think is the best sound improvement compromise settings for the headphones that I use. But I'm still adjusting and learning...
 
Dec 16, 2002 at 6:20 PM Post #3 of 50
Dec 16, 2002 at 11:39 PM Post #4 of 50
Over the last couple of years I have read about a number of people that used a Behringer Ultra-Curve Pro to adjust for room deficiencies with their SET and horn speaker systems. I don't know how this unit rates compared to other brands. The MSRP is US $230. Here is a link to a picture and an online manual.

http://www.behringer.com/02_products...P8024&lang=eng

There are a few reviews floating around on this unit and it's earlier incarnations. One of them is by Thorsten Loesch and can be found at enjoythemusic.
 
Dec 17, 2002 at 2:50 AM Post #5 of 50
What an odd coincidence. I just ordered an Ultra-curve a couple of days ago. I was curious, and Musician's Friend (those fiends) have them on sale for $200. I am anxious to hear what the Sens sound like without the shelved off highs. Cool thing about the Ultra, it will auto-equalize if you use it with a mic.

I will let you guys know how it turns out.


gerG
 
Dec 17, 2002 at 2:54 AM Post #6 of 50
Quote:

Originally posted by gerG
What an odd coincidence. I just ordered an Ultra-curve a couple of days ago. I was curious, and Musician's Friend (those fiends) have them on sale for $200. I am anxious to hear what the Sens sound like without the shelved off highs. Cool thing about the Ultra, it will auto-equalize if you use it with a mic.

I will let you guys know how it turns out.


gerG



Glad you're joining the club. I currently enjoy using a DSP8024 with my HD600 (and DT931).
 
Dec 17, 2002 at 7:07 AM Post #7 of 50
Quote:

Originally posted by kelly
Where is a good place to start reading about EQs for someone who doesn't know *anything at all* about them?


I think you already know enough. Just move the little sliders up, and down till you get it to sound "right". My problem is I never got it to sound "right".
Maybe check into digital E.Q.s.
 
Dec 17, 2002 at 8:56 AM Post #8 of 50
kelly,

i would recommend you not to use the behringer ultracurve for critical listening.... there's much better for a little more (especially with something as critical as headphone listeninig.) besides the fact that behringer just doesn't measure up to the name brands it copies (mackie mainly)... the behringers i've used have many features... but simply don't do the job as well as the more simple but higher quality units out there.

anyway.... as for equalizers... it all depends on what you're looking for. generally, if you only have one or two frequencies that you would like to get rid of, or boost... parametric equalizers are more useful. if you've never seen one... they have a control for the frequency in question... another knob for the bandwith of the equalization curve, and a third knob of course for the amount of boost/cut.

...then of course, most are familiar with the graphic equlizers... which are most useful for things like adjusting room acoustics with loudspeakers.

but again, for tweaking the sound, parametric equalizers are very useful.
 
Dec 17, 2002 at 1:29 PM Post #9 of 50
Are you looking to use this with speakers or headphones? If for speakers, have you ever considered room correction amplifiers? E.g. http://www.tactaudio.com/RCS22X/index.html

They do everything an EQ does and much, much more.

I assume this is at least within reaching distance for you
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Dec 17, 2002 at 6:35 PM Post #10 of 50
Orpheus speaks truth. I have some Behringer gear, so I kind of know what to expect. otoh they have some amazing features for the price. I am not too keen on the idea of going from digital, to analog, back to digital, thence to analog once again. For the experiments that I want to try I think that it will work. I have always had an aversion to equalizers, since they are another source of distortion. They can prove quite useful for exploring voicing options, however. It would be possible, for example, to find the sound that one likes, then have a purpose built circuit made that does only that function.

I plan to do a loop test to see what the unit adds/subtracts by just being in the circuit. I have done this with crossovers and cables in the past, an it is amazing what sorts of things show up.


gerG
 
Dec 17, 2002 at 7:32 PM Post #11 of 50
there are also some very expensive passive equalizers out there.... Manley makes one model called the "Massive Passive...." i believe it's a 4 channel parametric equalizer. but only buy it if you're rich man... costs $5000 for this 2U unit!!!

there are also subtractive-ONLY graphic equalizers. i personally have a pair being modified right now. they're vintage Urei units... probably been out of production for 15 years. but they are still commanding very high prices, partly because of their brand name. but you probably can find a pair on ebay once in a while. but since they are cut-only, there is no distortion based on amplification. ...i didn't get a chance to use them yet, but if you want, i can tell you the test results after i get them back from the tech.
 
Dec 17, 2002 at 8:05 PM Post #12 of 50
orpheus
It sounds like I need a parametric. I don't know what disadvtanages there might be for a passive cut-only. I'm guessing there is less opportunity for phase correction with those?
 
Dec 17, 2002 at 8:23 PM Post #13 of 50
i dunno. maybe. i mean, it doesn't use amplification... so there's less distortion and noise. to me, lower noise, the better, cause when you record... one track with a little noise is no big deal. but after you mix in 30 tracks of whatever, the noise is compounded.

but when you say phase correction... i'm not sure what you mean. you mean the inherit phase distortion in equalizers?--or do you mean you want to fix phase? there are some "sound enhancers" out there that shift the phase of bass to match the treble... for example, BBE's products. i have one. it works pretty good. it's like a fancy equalizer... makes dance music sound great.

but anyway.... if you're not sure what you want... just go over to Guitar Center or Sam Ash and ask to demo some equalizers. they have both passive and graphic equalizers. in general, the pro audio guys in GC know enough to help you. GC will let you play with anything!!! they'll even let you buy one, then return it within 30 days for a full refund, and you don't even need a reason to return it!.... just say, "i don't like it man."

after you get the hang of equalizers, you can find an audiophile one that is better suited to your needs, and is more aesthetically pleasing.

oh... and the urei i'm talking about isn't passive. it is cut only... but apparently draws power for some function, though i dunno for what. the manley IS totally passive though.......... and many top engineers use them.... but you can buy a used car for that much.
 
Dec 17, 2002 at 8:34 PM Post #14 of 50
Garbage in Garbage out. Spend your money on a good source and try treating your room with some acoustic tiles or even wall hangings instead of boosting frequencies through an equalizer.

You don't mention "why" you are looking for an equalizer? glassy high frequencies can be tamed with soft furnishings etc.

Bass boom caused by standing waves can be reduced by room mods also.

Get to grips with the room / equipment. Equalizers are not the solution.

Pinkie
 
Dec 17, 2002 at 8:39 PM Post #15 of 50
Your furniture can change the sound of your system

'Why doesn't it sound like it did in the shop?' It's one of the most common hi-fi concerns, and while running-in - covered in an earlier Sad but true - is one factor, chances are the cause is even simpler.

It's just that your room is different to the dealer's demonstration facilities, so speakers (in particular) are going to sound very different. Once, speakers were designed, tested and tuned in anechoic chambers: literally rooms treated (usually with long irregular foam wedges) to have no echo at all. Great if you wanted a theoretically perfect sound, but hardly relevant to the rooms in which they were likely to be used.

Now a lot more listening takes place, but manufacturers still tend to use rooms that acoustically treated to be as near as possible perfect. At home, our rooms are nothing like this. Your average modern front room will be roughly rectangular, with a relatively low ceiling.

The demands of accommodating a TV, sofas, coffee-tables, maybe a fireplace and all the other domestic clutter will lead to less than ideal speaker placement, while it's likely only one person will be able to sit in the optimum listening position. It's hardly giving the hi-fi an even break, is it?

Now you could go the whole hog and have a dedicated listening room. Ideally this should have a high yet sloping ceiling, non-parallel walls preferably covered in some kind of material that neither reflects nor absorbs sound, and a solid concrete floor covered in the same kind of material.

It should also be big enough so that you can sit well clear of the walls, and if there's a window on one wall there should probably be one on the other. Oh, and it should probably be at the intersection of ley-lines. In y'dreams, right? It's unlikely that you can achieve such a room, but a few commonsense tips are worth considering:

* A high-backed sofa or chair will soak up bass, as will sitting with your back to thick velvet curtains. It also tends to make treble focus a little vague.
* Sitting hard against a bare wall will also muddle the sound - it's best to have your seat a few feet out.
* A bare room will tend to echo, muddling imaging. Try standing in the room, clapping your hands and listening for the echo. If it's distinct, the room could do with some damping down.
* Rooms can be softened using rugs (on the floor or, in extreme cases, on the wall). This is particularly true in rooms with bare floorboards, where a rug between the speakers and the listening seat will give a much more controlled sound.
* Heavy curtains will also damp down the room, as will well-stocked bookcases and soft furnishings. But beware of over-damping the room - do that and you get an extremely lifeless sound.
* Avoid reflective surfaces between your listening seat and the speakers. A nice glass-topped coffee table is handy for parking the Gold Blend while listening, but will give a nice solid reflection, messing up the soundstaging. If you must have the table there, break up the reflection with an artfully irregular arrangement of books, magazines, ethnic wooden models of ducks, etc.
* Keep speakers clear of corners. Corners work like horns, boosting the bass and messing up the sound.
* For the same reason, try to avoid putting speakers in alcoves, bay windows, huge medieval open fireplaces and the like.
* Above all, strike a balance between sound and domestic harmony. An acoustically perfect listening room might make your system sound fab, but would you want to live there?


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