[kelly]

Story on CNN: http://www.cnn.com/2002/SHOWBIZ/News....ap/index.html

 

[grinch]

is everyone still crying over his death?

by the way, i have to agree with bill hicks that drugs make good music. however, using drugs as a crusty old man is not only ignorant, but dumb.

 

[john_jcb]

Quote:

Originally posted by grinch is everyone still crying over his death? by the way, i have to agree with bill hicks that drugs make good music. however, using drugs as a crusty old man is not only ignorant, but dumb.

Drugs don't make good music! The fact that many artists have produced great music while under the influence only makes me wonder what they could of done if straight. I have never met a drug user that was ever better for it. Growing up in the late 60's I had the opportunity (??) to be around that scene and I saw far too many people waste their lives due to drug use. Buried in the article is a word of caution from the doctor. Cocaine can trigger a heart attack under the right conditions even in very small amounts and it may happen on the first or one hundredth use.

As a good example look at Jim Morrison of the Doors. He truly had a brilliant mind but drugs including alcohol abuse ruined and eventually killed him. He had so much to say but in the end it was lost.

I would hate to see any of the younger Headfiers try drugs thinking that it will make their music better.

 

[kerelybonto]

Unfortunately, it's very easy to cite bands that made great rock music before while they were stoned off their asses and put out worthless stuff after they cleaned up. Maybe there are some good counter examples, but ...

kerelybonto

 

[john_jcb]

From my experience listening to LPs and many live concerts in the 60s and early 70s I think people have a distorted view of what really happened. Many of the bands that I saw were far less than stellar when they were live. You would read later about the behind the scenes exploits and drug use. Studio work was a little different. Often times it took a year for them to lay down an LP's worth of decent tracks. Watch the behind the Music shows sometimes and you will get a clearer picture of life as it was for many of the groups. I think a disservice is being done glamorizing this ultimately distructive behaviour.

 

[blink180tone]

to qoute third eye from tool's aenima cd:

see i think drugs have done some good things for us i really do. and if you dont believe drugs have done good things for us, do me a favor, go home tonite and take all your albums, all your tapes, and all your cds, and burn em. because you know what, all the musicians who made all that great music that's enhanced you lives throughout the years.........reall ****ing high on drugs.

 

[archosman]

Quote:

Originally posted by blink180tone to qoute third eye from tool's aenima cd: see i think drugs have done some good things for us i really do. and if you dont believe drugs have done good things for us, do me a favor, go home tonite and take all your albums, all your tapes, and all your cds, and burn em. because you know what, all the musicians who made all that great music that's enhanced you lives throughout the years.........reall ****ing high on drugs.

dumb... real dumb. spoken by someone who hasn't even had 40 or 50 years life experience. I'll go with john_jcb's post...

 

[redshifter]

Quote:

The fact that many artists have produced great music while under the influence only makes me wonder what they could of done if straight.

i'm in the middle on this one. would we have the beatle's "revolver" if they hadn't smoked pot, or "sgt. pepper" if they hadn't dropped lsd? could these albums have been better?

look at layne from alice in chains. total junkie, yet most of his songs dealt with being a junkie. his whole output is like one long cautionary suicide note. of course his death was like some horrible scene from "se7en". stay away don't follow indeed.

the who's music really suffered after a while from the drinking/drugs. especially the drinking.

perhaps 1% of the musicians who have used substances to try to enhace their music truely did so. the other 99% were just fooling themselves... like when dave lister plays his electric guitar and hears hendrix, while everyone else hears cacophony.

 

[kerelybonto]

By no means am I suggesting that drugs are necessary for making good music. But the widespread association of drugs and music, especially rock and roll, suggests that drugs are not a detriment to the music. Sure, you can write it off as part of the culture, but truth is, a lot of great songs were written when some guy toked up. If drugs really hurt the music, there would be a lot more great bands who never used them.

Look at it objectively. John Coltrane was a heroine addict (and was kicked out of Miles Davis's band for it). The Greatful Dead wrote and performed high on LSD. Pink Floyd designed their shows to enhance the effects of acid. Think "Purple Haze" (Jimi Hendrix), "Heroine" (The Velvet Underground), "Cocaine" (Eric Clapton). To what do you think "With a Little Help from My Friends" (The Beatles) refers?

And then look at all the musicians who've died from drug overdoses or complications. Besides Entwistle and Moon, there's Hendrix, Janis Joplin, Jim Morrison, Brian Jones, Jerry Garcia -- look more recently and there's Sublime's Brad Nowell, Blind Mellon's Shannon Hoon, the Pumpkin's Jonathon Melvion, Dee Dee Ramone. Kurt Cobain had heroin in him when he shot himself. There are lots more, plus lots more who haven't killed themselves yet. You get the point.

Usually when there's such a high correlation between things, such as between drugs and good music, people tend to think there's some sort of beneficial relationship. Does anyone say, "Yeah, Jordan was good, but he could have been so much better if he didn't eat his Wheaties"? Other than killing musicians early and wrecking their lives so much they can't make music (think Stone Temple Pilots), I really don't think drugs hurt music making. I think it's stupid to think Sgt. Pepper's, Led Zeppelin II, Nevermind, Tiny Music and so many other great albums would have been better if the musicians who created them had been clean.

kerelybonto

 

[kelly]

Correlation does not equate to causation.

 

[john_jcb]

Ask a paramedic sometime how many great songs they have heard on the way to the ER.

You will believe what you want to believe about drug use; I think your ideas will change over the years as you see your friends die or ruin their minds from the efffects of drugs.

I just hope you all have the sense to stay away from it.

 

[grinch]

Quote:

Originally posted by blink180tone to qoute third eye from tool's aenima cd: see i think drugs have done some good things for us i really do. and if you dont believe drugs have done good things for us, do me a favor, go home tonite and take all your albums, all your tapes, and all your cds, and burn em. because you know what, all the musicians who made all that great music that's enhanced you lives throughout the years.........reall ****ing high on drugs.

you ass, that is a clip of bill hicks. why do you think there's a painting of him on the inside of this album (please tell me you own it and didn't just download it..)? "Another Dead American Hero"? does that ring a bell? although this quote is basically what i was referencing to with my first post, he has many other recorded statements on the idea of drugs and drugs in music.

and it's more like "rrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrreal ****ing high on drugs!"


on john_jcb's ideas: yeah yeah yeah, let's all be responsible and not do any drugs. now, let's go to the real world where everybody does anything they possibly can to get a good feeling: enter drugs. i never said cocaine was the drug to use for good music anyway heh.

i am a huge fan of bill hicks (may he rest in peace) and own all of his comedy albums. i used a different clip, much like the one on third eye, as the intro for my latest cd compilation.. it goes something like this:

"the bands who DON'T do drugs and in FACT speak out against them 'we're rock against drugs!'.. boy they suck. SUCK. ball-less, soul-less, corporate little bitches. suckers of satan's **** EACH AND EVERY ONE OF THEM! <sucking satan's **** sound effects>.."

hmm, it really loses something in the transcript. i forget which track that is, otherwise i'd name it so all you napster-kiddies could grab it and hear some wisdom.

 

[grinch]

Quote:

Originally posted by archosman dumb... real dumb. spoken by someone who hasn't even had 40 or 50 years life experience. I'll go with john_jcb's post...

bill hicks said that i believe he died when he was 31, pancreatic cancer.

however, i would really like to hear anybody "with forty or fifty years of life experience" who has never used any drugs at all. please, all you drug-free-for-lifers voice your opinions (alcohol and nicotine are drugs too, and in my opinion coffee as well). so come on, let's hear YOUR total drug-free life opinions on the subject!

 

[john_jcb]

Quote:

Originally posted by grinch however, i would really like to hear anybody "with forty or fifty years of life experience" who has never used any drugs at all. please, all you drug-free-for-lifers voice your opinions (alcohol and nicotine are drugs too, and in my opinion coffee as well). so come on, let's hear YOUR total drug-free life opinions on the subject!

Lumping all drugs into a single category makes for a very hollow argument. I haven’t seen too many lives ruined over too many cups of coffee. Alcohol can be as destructive as any drug and you are right in a sense there isn’t much difference there. I guess people can learn from others experiences or they can try everything for themselves. I have lost some very close friends as a result of drug use over the years and was hoping that some may listen and avoid that pain.

 

[coolvij]

kerelybonto: Coltrane was not only not very stellar before he kicked the habit, quit playing, and started up with music again, but he was actually mediocre. I am a huge Coltrane fan, a fanatic even, but the stuff he did while all drugged up sounds pretty out-of-control; he's playing fast, yea, but that was his skill........did it sound good? Not really........

And of course, with Trane, he even devoted an entire album to being clean and reconnecting with God, A Love Supreme. I think that's pretty Steamin, Cookin, Workin good..........even better........