Entertaining the idea of canalphones or clip-on's

[philodox]

Well, I've always said that nothing can beat full sized headphones... which is true to some extent. However, with the summer on its way I've been thinking about trading in my K271 Studio's. I will not be doing this soon, if ever, but I wanted to get some ideas of possible candidates. The other factor that has pushed me into this is the fact that my K340's sound so much better in every way over my K271S, that I don't think I would mind if my portable rig took a little step down in quality. I would prefer to keep the same quality of sound that I am used to on the go or possibly improve it, but that is not completely necissary.

What I am looking for:

1. Something that has a sound similar to the AKG house sound that I have grown to love. If it was a bit more like my K340's that would be even better. Since there are very few people on here that have heard my K340's, the best way to describe their sound is that they are somewhere between the K240S and the K501 in terms of sound signature. For those who are not familiar with AKG headphones, they can also be said to be similar to a crossbreed between the Stax SR404 and the Grado RS1.

2. Must be a dynamic analog headphone. I will continue to drive them out of my AOS flute, so the Stax Electrostatic portable headphones and the Audio Technica 'digital' headphones are out.

3. Must be small enough that I can carry them in my Headroom Traveller Bag... I want to get the Headroom Headcase out of the equation if at all possible.

4. I don't want to sweat while wearing them. I think that canalphones and clip-on's are the only way to go here.

5. I would prefer to stay away from custom IEM's, as I like to be able to share my headphones with others.

*EDIT*
6. Isolation is a definite must as I need to block out noise from the subway and don't like to share my music with every passenger when on the bus or train to and from work.
*EDIT*

I've taken a look around and some headphones that interest me are:
Ultimate Ears' new Super.Fi line
Etymotic ER5-S
Shure E4C
Shure E5C
Westone UM2
Sony MDR-EXQ
Audio-Technica ATH-CM7ti
Audio-Technica ATH-EW9 Sovereign

Are there any others that I should consider? Do any of these come close to the AKG house sound?

I hope to audition some of these 'contenders' at the Detroit meet.

Thanks in advance,

Jason

 

[kramer5150]

Since you didnt list isolation as a criteria IMHO you should consider a KSC75/35 or portapro. IMHO the $20 KSC75 sounds better than most sub $150 canal phones. It has a big open soundstage that the in-ears just cant replicate for the price.

Not too familiar with that type of bag... if you can fabricate a plastic case to fit an SR60 that would be your best bet IMHO.

Garrett

 

[philodox]

Oops... I can't believe I forgot about isolation. That is a definite must as I need to block out noise from the subway and don't like to share my music with every passenger when on the bus or train to and from work.

I've tried the Portapro's which use the same drivers as the KSC series and while they are good, they are not really in the same league as the K271S in my opinion. The bass is a lot more present, but is not as controlled and the detail falls way short. I'd prefer to make this a sidestep or an upgrade if at all possible. Quote:

Originally Posted by kramer5150 If you can fabricate a plastic case to fit an SR60 that would be your best bet IMHO.

Definately passing on the Grado's... not really all that close to the AKG house sound and completely open.

Thanks for the suggestions though.

 

[philodox]

Anyone have any ideas?

 

[PrototypeX2]

ex81

 

[philodox]

*sigh*

Thanks for the suggestion, but does the ex81 satisfy any of my criteria above? I've heard a few Sony headphones and their sound signature is nothing like that of AKG.

 

[catscratch]

Seriously, if you expect any non-custom-molded IEM's except the Stax 001 to give your K340's a run for their money, you're going to be disappointed. The ER-4S isn't it. It will do some things better than your K340, but on the whole, it will fall short. The UM2 will probably have more bass, but it will be more bloated and congested, with less detail. The e5c will have even more bass and less treble, though it should be a bit smoother than the UM2 - if I remember right. Been a while since I heard these. In any case, the latter two just aren't as "hi-fi," whatever that means, as a properly amped ER-4S. In my experience, anyway.

I don't know about the new UE models, nor the e4c. Maybe they'll do the trick, but I doubt it. They'll have to be miles beyond the ER-4/UM2, instead of just a slight improvement, to compete with full-sized electrostats.

I think you'll either have to live with lessened sound quality, or spring for a custom-molded IEM - which still may not be better than your K340's.

For a starter, the ER-4S amped out of your Flute will probably get you closer to the K340 sound, at least the way you describe it, than any of the others you mentioned. An ER-4P with the P/S converter amped with a Porta Corda comes close to the 001 in some respects. Thinner, leaner, with less detail in the midrange and a (still!) somewhat unnatural lower treble, but crisper in the bass and much sharper with the imaging. If you're doing to go amped, I'd say give these a close listen - and experiment with every tip you can find before you say "yea" or "nay."

 

[philodox]

Quote:

Originally Posted by catscratch Seriously, if you expect any non-custom-molded IEM's except the Stax 001 to give your K340's a run for their money, you're going to be disappointed.

No, of course not... I'd like to keep the quality of my K271S or possibly increase it. I was mentioning the other headphones as a reference to the sound signature that I'm looking for.

EDIT: For clarification, when I said I wouldnt mind my portable rig taking a little step down in quality I was talking about as compared to the K271S, not the K340. Sorry if that wasnt clear. Quote:

Originally Posted by catscratch For a starter, the ER-4S amped out of your Flute will probably get you closer to the K340 sound, at least the way you describe it, than any of the others you mentioned. An ER-4P with the P/S converter amped with a Porta Corda comes close to the 001 in some respects. Thinner, leaner, with less detail in the midrange and a (still!) somewhat unnatural lower treble, but crisper in the bass and much sharper with the imaging. If you're doing to go amped, I'd say give these a close listen - and experiment with every tip you can find before you say "yea" or "nay."

Cool, thanks for the suggestion.

 

[jjcha]

I've owned the Shure E5c, Sony MDR-EXQ1 and audio-technica ATH-EW9. I've also had a brief audition with the Shure E4c (very promising!) and own Sensaphonics 2X-S. Unfortunately, I'm not familar with your AKGs. I do own the K-1000, and have a pair of Grado RS-1 on my head right now. Anyway, here are some thoughts that I hope are helpful.

1. The EW9 won't give you the isolation you're looking for. Scratch it off your list.

2. In terms of raw sound quality, only the Sensaphonics (or, presumably, other custom IEM) will get you to the level of a good full-sized can. Actually, when I first borrowed the RS-1, my first thought was they kind of remind me of my Sensas in my portable rig. The Sensas don't have that sexy-smooth midrange, or quite the fun punch of the bass of the RS-1, and I have finally come to the conclusion that the Sensa treble tends towards graininess/harshness. I tried them out of both my portable rig, and with my Grace m902 and Chord source and hear the harshness that just isn't there with any of the other full-sized cans I have. Still, sonically, I think the Sensas, at least out of my portable rig, are a lot closer to the Grado RS-1 than the HD650/Zu comparisons we see.

I don't think the Sensas are as good as the RS-1 or HD650/Zu, CD3k, SA5k, AKG K-1000 (each phones I've compared directly against the Sensas) but the Sensas do come close enough that comparisons aren't unreasonable. They bring you the high quality, "audiophile" experience on the road. Zero soundstage though (kinda sad when you're beat out by Grado for soundstage).

3. The Shure E5c are pretty darn good, but are a clear class/step down from the Sensaphonics. While I'm happy to compare the Sensas to good high-level fullsized cans, I don't think the Shure E5c is quite there. There are one or two aspects of the Shure E5c sound that I preferred over the Sensas (the Shure are warmer) though. But the Shure E5c certainly bring you a high quality listening experience as well - maybe about as good as my SA3k, maybe as good or better than the audio-technica ATH-A900 (I've only listened briefly to these). In terms of house sound, the Shure E5c is kind of like a HD600 - not nearly as good in the treble as the Sensas or RS-1, but they have a nice warm sound and plentiful, impactful but one-note mid-bass.

4. The Shure E4c are very promising. On my brief 5 minute listen out of my portable rig I liked them a lot. I think I heard why some people say they prefer it to the Shure E5c. Anyway, there should be lots of information on these phones shortly - I'd keep an eye on these.

5. The Sony MDR-EXQ1 aren't in the same league as the Shure E5c or E4c. I liked them a lot, but I don't even know if they compare with the ATH-CM7ti level. Anyway, imagine an improved EX71 that got rid of the EX71's flaws, and is pretty fun and comfortable, and that's what you've got.

Best,

-Jason

 

[philodox]

Thanks for the great post jjcha!

I will have to consider what you have said... It's looking like custom IEMs might be my only option. I was worried about that.

 

[PrototypeX2]

Quote:

Originally Posted by philodox *sigh* Thanks for the suggestion, but does the ex81 satisfy any of my criteria above? I've heard a few Sony headphones and their sound signature is nothing like that of AKG.

Any? More like 4. 3,4,5,and 6.

 

[philodox]

Quote:

Originally Posted by PrototypeX2 Any? More like 4. 3,4,5,and 6.

5 actually... I'm pretty sure they are dynamic analog phones.

Sorry if I got a little pissy there, but I am looking for something that has an AKG like sound and is not a huge step down [maybe even a step up] from the K271S. I guess I was just expecting some more responses as I layed out my question very clearly. I see newbie posts on here every day of the "i NEED some wicked headphones!!1!" variety that get more attention.

Anyways, sorry if I got all grumpy.

 

[jjcha]

Quote:

Originally Posted by philodox Thanks for the great post jjcha! I will have to consider what you have said... It's looking like custom IEMs might be my only option. I was worried about that.

Well, I certainly wouldn't count out the higher end canalphones, like the Shure E5c, yet. The E5c are high-end performers. I think I'm kind of down on them because the Sensas really are clearly better, but I was pretty happy with my Shure E5c before upgraditius came along. They were a nice portable compliment to my HD600.

Overall, they did bring a level of performance that makes them "audiophile" headphones, but had flaws that the full-sized cans just don't have. I prefered my HD600 because they had that magical airyness that the Senns have, and an effortless midrange, and the Shure E5c just couldn't do that. Also the Shure E5c's bass, while fun and enjoyable, got a bit too "one-note" for me at the end.

So I felt they didn't compare with the HD600 sonically, but it was a reasonable sacrifice for portability and isolation. I think I have the same comments for the Etymotics ER4, which I listened to briefly. I really enjoyed them. They're pretty colored, at least to my ears, but had lots of clarity, speed and detail that impressed me. I thought that they too are high end performers, but just aren't at the same level as my SA5k.

Still, I think I'm pretty demanding on canalphones, and we are comparing them to pretty high end, full sized phones. I'm one of those people for whom the in-your-ear lack of sound stage makes it so they can never beat full sized phones. Still, even putting that aspect aside, I did find the Shure E5c and Etys to be very good performers, but just flawed in sonic performance when compared to better.

If the sonic signature of the Shure E5c/E4c, Etys, UE or other high end universal fit canalphone match what you're looking for from your AKG, I think you could be very happy with them. I would be really excited about the E4c and new UE product and other lesser known canalphones.

Best,

-Jason

 

[philodox]

Hey, we have the same name... not that it is uncommon or anything.

Quote:

Originally Posted by jjcha I would be really excited about the E4c and new UE product and other lesser known canalphones.

That is exactly what I was thinking... especially after finally reading through that 'Super.Fi' thread.

 

[PrototypeX2]

Quote:

Originally Posted by philodox 5 actually... I'm pretty sure they are dynamic analog phones. Sorry if I got a little pissy there, but I am looking for something that has an AKG like sound and is not a huge step down [maybe even a step up] from the K271S. I guess I was just expecting some more responses as I layed out my question very clearly. I see newbie posts on here every day of the "i NEED some wicked headphones!!1!" variety that get more attention. Anyways, sorry if I got all grumpy.

Well it's more of my fault because I wasn't careful reading your first post

.
I've never tried any AKGs before actually... so I can't really make comments on that.
On the other hand, as jjcha has mentioned, definitely check out the UE Super.Fi series and e4c