EMU 1212M: Opinions, questions and ideas

[bg4533]

I installed my Emu 1212M over the weekend and have probably listened to it for about 10 hours now. Originally I was using Waveout with Foobar and found the card to sound fairly detailed, but almost dead and lifeless. I am now using ASIO resampled to 192K, and it sounds quite a bit better, but I still can't say I like it. The music I am hearing from my current set up is just no fun. I find a noticable improvement in sound quality over my Chaintech AV710, but do to price and how boring I currently find the 1212M I think I would just be happier with the AV710.

My current amp is a Mint with an OPA2228. The Mint was originally built to use with my Ipod mini, but I am using it with my computer until my Pimeta is finished. With the AV710 I had mixed opinions of this amp. There were certain parts of the music that sounded absolutely amazing and others that didn't sound so great. Certain guitars in particular sounded completely fake. With the EMU 1212M none of the music really sounds bad or fake, but nothing is really amazing sounding either. Overall, I dont really like the OPA2228, so that is likely hurting my impressions of the EMU1212M. I plan on chaning the OPA2228 in the Mint to an OPA2132 when time permits.

The Pimeta I am building will use OPA637/627s and 4 buffers/channel, so it should be a fairly solid amp. I am now wondering if I will like the 1212M with this Pimeta or if I should give the 0404 a shot. The 0404 sounds like it might be a little more my style. My computer case is also a bit tight due to how I have things set up (had to remove other things to put in the 1212M) so I would appreciate not taking up the extra slot. What do all of you think, should I try the 0404? Does anyone here have one that they want to sell for a decent price? I would prefer not to waste too much more money on this.

If I keep the 1212M I might consider modding it. The 1212M connects the digital card to the analog card by a floppy cable. The analog card does not actually connect to the PCI slot. Does anyone know on what card the digital to analog conversions take place? If it is digital data traveling through the floppy cable than the 1212M might make a great candidate for external mounting (either way it might work). The floppy cable could be run outside the case and the analog card could be mounted in a Hammond or any other type case. My full idea is to mount the card in the same case as my amp, remove the 1/4" jacks on the analog card and solder the inputs from my amp directly to the analog card. This should minimize interference and signal loss and also save the money from good cables. Providing you used a large enough case you could also have all the room you needed to replace the caps on the EMU. What does everyone think about this?

I have seen a ton of posts here in the past week about modding the 1212M, but no one has really posted much definitive info. I am considering removing the output capacitors of the analog card and removing the opamps. I really don't know where to start with this. What capacitors should be removed, any pictures showing them removed? Do I need to jumper them after removing them? What opamps on the card need to be removed? What pins do I need to jumper? Will there be a problem with DC offset if I remove the opamps and output caps and use it with my Pimeta (gain ~ 7) that does not have input caps?

Thanks for the help and reading all of this.

 

[yeeyy]

If you music preference is towards pop and rock, E-MU 0404 may suit your taste better.

Take sometimes listened to your 1212m before switching, say about 1 to 2 weeks, then listened back to your current rig (AV710), you may noticed more different and decided then.

Do take notes that 1212m have uncolor sound that may not suite everyone taste.

 

[gaboo]

Quote:

Originally Posted by bg4533 Overall, I dont really like the OPA2228, so that is likely hurting my impressions of the EMU1212M.

Have you tried the card output? It's already amped, unlike the AV710. It won't output too much current or voltage, but is ok with A900 cans. Your amp may be degrading the sound...

Quote:

Does anyone know on what card the digital to analog conversions take place?

The analog one [w/o pci plug].

Quote:

If it is digital data traveling through the floppy cable than the 1212M might make a great candidate for external mounting (either way it might work). The floppy cable could be run outside the case and the analog card could be mounted in a Hammond or any other type case. My full idea is to mount the card in the same case as my amp, remove the 1/4" jacks on the analog card and solder the inputs from my amp directly to the analog card. This should minimize interference and signal loss and also save the money from good cables. Providing you used a large enough case you could also have all the room you needed to replace the caps on the EMU. What does everyone think about this?

The floppy cable is short. ICHi recommend against a longer one, because it's sending the clock to the DAC. You don't want to degrade that.

Quote:

I have seen a ton of posts here in the past week about modding the 1212M, but no one has really posted much definitive info. I am considering removing the output capacitors of the analog card and removing the opamps. I really don't know where to start with this. What capacitors should be removed, any pictures showing them removed? Do I need to jumper them after removing them? What opamps on the card need to be removed? What pins do I need to jumper? Will there be a problem with DC offset if I remove the opamps and output caps and use it with my Pimeta (gain ~ 7) that does not have input caps? Thanks for the help and reading all of this.

Glassman and Iron_Dreamer are the definitive source on this...

 

[bg4533]

I tried replacing the opamp and a couple resistors on the Mint tonight, but ended up just messing everything up. I lifted a pad for the opamp from the board and pulled the pads around one of the resistors off. I think I am going to just start over with a new Mint.

Since I am now without an amp I just hooked the input of the former mint directly to the output and now the 1212M is driving my headphones directly. From an audiophile perspective there is a reasonable decrease in sound quality. Things sound a bit less controlled and less detailed. From a normal perspective I think the 1212M sounds reasonable better, everything is warmer and more fun. On a negative note I just tried to turn the volume up on the 1212M and things just started clipping like mad. Oh well...

Well, running this card without an amp gives me some new hope for it. I think with the Pimeta I should reall enjoy it. I guess it was just really bad synergy between my amp and the 1212M. Anyone still have any comments on my mod ideas?

 

[doctorcilantro]

I'm interested in mods so I'll dig around and see what I can find. I have used an M-Audio 24/96 & Delta 44 and want to have cables direct to card....I don't want breakout boxes anymore. I like that the ADC is on the analog daughter card.

I think most would be happy with the ENVY 24HT which is used on even the new M-Audio Audiophile 192, Delta cards, and the ESI Juli@ but the synnergy seems (for me) to lie in the Emu 1212M.

Dr. C

 

[lan]

Quote:

Originally Posted by bg4533 I installed my Emu 1212M over the weekend and have probably listened to it for about 10 hours now. I am now using ASIO resampled to 192K, and it sounds quite a bit better

Don't use resampling. It just softens the sound further. Did you add a send in the ASIO strip to out 1/2?

 

[doctorcilantro]

What about 32 bit playback? Just no resampling? Why is erveryone paying up the wazoo for dvd players that do 24/192?

I also heard that recording at higher sample rates is excessive and can introduce lots of errors. I record at 32/88 now bit thinking of trying just higher bit rates and keeping sampling at 44...?

Dr. C

 

[lan]

There's nothing wrong with recording at higher sampling rate. Why does the recording industry use it then if there are lots of errors? Where did you read such a thing?

There are many upsampling methods. I'm only commenting on the one in foobar. They use something different in other machines.

32bit playback is fine. I seem to prefer it over 24bit padded to 32bit in my system.

 

[CSMR]

Quote:

Originally Posted by lan Did you add a send in the ASIO strip to out 1/2?

Grateful if you could explain!

 

[doctorcilantro]

http://recforums.prosoundweb.com/index.php/t/288/0

LONG......but the gist I gather is that recording at higher sample rates can enable editing & sampling w/o loss of quality, but it's not neccessarily essential.

Back when I was researching archiving vinyl I learned that recording at higher bit depth was more important than the sampling rate as you could then process the material w/o degrading the quality; effects & gaine changes, etc.

The 1212M doesn't allow 88.2 kHz recording like my Delta 44 so I may simply try recording at some different rates with Wavelab and compare the results. Usually I record hot and use only the Waves L2 to dither down to 16bit and boost +5db; maybe some noise reduction if needed.

Dr. C

 

[Asterix]

upsampling to 19200 hurt my sound. But changing the bit depth to 24 bit padded to 32 bit may have helped a little... I'm not really sure.

 

[uzziah]

Quote:

Originally Posted by lan There's nothing wrong with recording at higher sampling rate. Why does the recording industry use it then if there are lots of errors? Where did you read such a thing? There are many upsampling methods. I'm only commenting on the one in foobar. They use something different in other machines. 32bit playback is fine. I seem to prefer it over 24bit padded to 32bit in my system.

funny you should mention that. i prefer 24bit padded to 32bit as well. i thought it was just placebo, but perhaps not

 

[uzziah]

Quote:

Originally Posted by doctorcilantro http://recforums.prosoundweb.com/index.php/t/288/0 LONG......but the gist I gather is that recording at higher sample rates can enable editing & sampling w/o loss of quality, but it's not neccessarily essential. Back when I was researching archiving vinyl I learned that recording at higher bit depth was more important than the sampling rate as you could then process the material w/o degrading the quality; effects & gaine changes, etc. The 1212M doesn't allow 88.2 kHz recording like my Delta 44 so I may simply try recording at some different rates with Wavelab and compare the results. Usually I record hot and use only the Waves L2 to dither down to 16bit and boost +5db; maybe some noise reduction if needed. Dr. C

digitizing vinyl. what's the world coming to?

 

[doctorcilantro]

LOL, just trying to make it portable. I love vinyl but I need to digitize it for archival purposes, and it 's also something to do.

Dr. C

 

[stiben]

Quote:

Originally Posted by lan Did you add a send in the ASIO strip to out 1/2?

Quote:

Originally Posted by CSMR Grateful if you could explain!

Assuming your Foobar output is in Patchmix on the ASIO OUT 1 / 2 strip...

Shut Foobar. Right click in one of the spare Inserts on that strip and choose Insert Send (Output to ASIO/WAVE or Physical Out). From the next list choose I/O Card Out 1 / 2.