Empire Ears - Discussion & Impressions (Formerly EarWerkz)
Apr 4, 2018 at 1:56 AM Post #12,301 of 40,357
Phantom is an IEM that IMO you'd either love it, or nah. Even from a higher-resolution source, if your sound preference doesn't meet then it's better to avoid getting it. To answer how does it sound in general, I think the Phantom sounds warm, smooth, and intimate with good technical, and at the same time emotional presentation. Fair surrounding soundstage, with high note definition, and plentiful bass. A very mature-sounding audiophile IEM. That said, its sound signature is neutral-warm which might sound good for male vocals, and cello. But for my cup, it lacks a bit of the sweetness, sparkle and bite for leaner, brighter instruments. YMMV.

I agree with these impressions a lot. The Phantom will turn off people who enjoy a lot of sparkle and crispness in the upper-treble. Its tuning is definitely more timbre-oriented; crucial for its malleability. Without a decidedly linear upper-treble, the Phantom wouldn't have the chameleon-like trait it does now. But, as @ranfan said, it's a love it or hate it sort of signature, especially once you're accustomed to leaner, clarity-focused ones.
 
Apr 4, 2018 at 2:07 AM Post #12,302 of 40,357
Well my custom Phantoms arrived today and I can’t seem to get a good seal without pressing them into my ears (and causing a lot of pain) so I may have to send them back for a refit.... sigh.

Funny thing, despite the problem I still can’t stop listening to them... they just sound so RIGHT and FULL (albeit distant with zero sub-bass, due to poor seal). And this is out of my iPhone.

EDIT: So I realized I just don’t know how to put them in completely, and once I got them in right they sealed up perfectly and all the pain is gone... and they just took my breath away.

These are my first CIEMs, please bear with me :ksc75smile:

EDIT2: after another 30 min I finally got the left one in... I guess this is why they say you need to work for anything worth having.

I get your fiddling, the VE8 was my first custom and although it is a perfect fit I initially felt it was “filling” too much despite no pressure point... one thing I have noticed is when the shell is still cold the sensation is not the best, once the shell is at body temperature you simply forget them :)

Thanks for the first impressions, I am so eager!!!
Mine are out for delivery I am stuck to my phone right now to make sure I don’t miss the fedex guy!
 
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Apr 4, 2018 at 2:20 AM Post #12,303 of 40,357
I agree with these impressions a lot. The Phantom will turn off people who enjoy a lot of sparkle and crispness in the upper-treble. Its tuning is definitely more timbre-oriented; crucial for its malleability. Without a decidedly linear upper-treble, the Phantom wouldn't have the chameleon-like trait it does now. But, as @ranfan said, it's a love it or hate it sort of signature, especially once you're accustomed to leaner, clarity-focused ones.
Yes, I can definitely see myself pre-64 Audio U6 hating the lack of "clarity" when it reality I was accustomed to huge amounts of sparkle from my Jupiters and crispness from my Ether Flows. After getting used to the rather flat, but very well-extended U6 the Phantoms ooze with emotion, "juciness" and texture. The texture though. I can almost feel bows tugging at the violins' strings and reeds vibrate against mouthpieces. Then there are the more exotic sonic textures only experimental ambient electronica can achieve....

Plankton by Ryuichi Sakamoto
CZ-5000 Sounds & Sequences by Satoshi & Makoto
Mark Greene (THE bass-quantity benchmark IMO)
Clear Stones by Fis & Rob Thorne for the truly brave...
 
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Apr 4, 2018 at 2:38 AM Post #12,304 of 40,357
I get your fiddling, the VE8 was my first custom and although it is a perfect fit I initially felt it was “filling” too much despite no pressure point... one thing I have noticed is when the shell is still cold the sensation is not the best, once the shell is at body temperature you simply forget them :)

Thanks for the first impressions, I am so eager!!!
Mine are out for delivery I am stuck to my phone right now to make sure I don’t miss the fedex guy!

same here... lol. 10 km away from me.
 
Apr 4, 2018 at 4:36 AM Post #12,305 of 40,357
Look what just arrived :ksc75smile:

Perfect fit, just a tad more relaxed than the VE8 fit wise, shells are roughly the same size.

IMG_5040.JPG


Now off to some listening but out of the box let’s say I have a big grin right now :ghost:
Quick note, I swapped the AresII for the LionHeart... I don’t know what is the Phantom impedance and sensitivity but I had to turn the volume down from 50/55 to 40/45 on DX200 with AMP4 low gain... that’s also the same difference with VE8 and LionHeart I use lower volume with the Phantom.
 
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Apr 4, 2018 at 5:35 AM Post #12,306 of 40,357
Have you auditioned this dac yet? There are many in this price range as well as used Codex's in this range that you may also want to listen to.

I haven't but I am trying to downsize my audio spending so it will be some time before I dare to go down that rabbit hole :)

What intrigues me about the RME is the eq and the option to run ciems without hiss. Also supposedly you don't need an amplifier unless you have very difficult to drive headphones or 2k to burn...
 
Apr 4, 2018 at 8:15 AM Post #12,307 of 40,357
So, I like the fact that the Phantom scales... How does it sound from a phone? I'm trying not to buy one so use your best judgement when posting a response.

I’m doing most of my listening with the phantom so far on the go using my iPhone X , but with the minimum of dragonfly red dac and it sounds fantastic, pretty much all of the qualities that shine through using the my hugo2 and music server at home. Beautifully organic sound, wide but realistic sound stage, extremely detailed but musical over cold analysis and the bass is gorgeous, tight, fast and blends beautifully into the overall presentation. I’m fairly new to totl headfi but not top end 2 channel and I’d find it hard to find this sound for less than £5-10k of domestic setup. Sorry I know that doesn’t answer directly what it’s like out of a phone but spending £200 on df red seems like small investment if you’ve just dropped £1500 on phantoms, for amazing results :)
 
Apr 4, 2018 at 10:43 AM Post #12,308 of 40,357
We never publicly offered owner transfers, though we did do them occasionally on a case-by-case basis - many of those units multiple times at discounted rates. The official cutoff date for owner transfers will be April 30, 2018 and this option will not be available for the X & EP series. Please feel free to contact @Ethan Groover in regards to any inquiries related to this. We highly encourage you guys to purchase universals if you're looking to resell later on down the road. For CIEM owners we'll provide support for as long as we're around. :beerchug:

WOW. Jack, I know how busy you have been. This is why I love EE so much and why I came here (thanks Nic and this was before I knew about the 2 new lines). You guys are music and gear lovers. To me, this is the best way to handle things. I PERSONALLY had no reservations getting a CIEM in the Phantom after hearing them. I knew it was what I wanted. It's really nice that you just stepped up like this as it could easily cost you money adn you are still in the having to support a family business. Thanks.

So, I like the fact that the Phantom scales... How does it sound from a phone? I'm trying not to buy one so use your best judgement when posting a response.

I have played Tidal from the phone as well as some high res folders I download for quick trips out when I don't want the heavy AK380cu/amp. This has already been answered, but I will say that playing the high res stuff vs Tidal stream for the same recording, I can hear the difference which is less on the phone than when I use home DAC/amps etc... I personally would have gotten the Phantom when using a 200 Audioquest Dragonfly red with teh phone. If you can afford the Phantom, you can afford and easily use the AQ. THAT little DAC makes the WORLD of difference on a phone. Honestly, it sounds to my ears nearly as good as a Mojo since I"m always out and about when using either of them. It's a great solution on the cheap and well worth it, but since you aren't buying now, things will change if you ever do in the future.

You guys just don't let up! Normally I don't have a problem waiting but y'all got me excited about my Bravado :p

Crabdog, that's too funny! My wife's Bravado's will be here sometime next week and I can't wait. She has no clue when they will be here, lol. She leaves on a trip for a few days for work (Tues I think), so I hope they are hear by then as she loves her music when on the road. That will be cool. Can't wait to hear your thoughts initially and then when broken in. 'Folks, the dynamic drivers take a bit longer to break in than the BA's. That's something to keep in mind when listening'.

Look what just arrived :ksc75smile:

Perfect fit, just a tad more relaxed than the VE8 fit wise, shells are roughly the same size.

IMG_5040.JPG


Now off to some listening but out of the box let’s say I have a big grin right now :ghost:
Quick note, I swapped the AresII for the LionHeart... I don’t know what is the Phantom impedance and sensitivity but I had to turn the volume down from 50/55 to 40/45 on DX200 with AMP4 low gain... that’s also the same difference with VE8 and LionHeart I use lower volume with the Phantom.

Congrats copy cat, LOL>...:). I got the mini silver wings, but I get daily compliments on the looks of mind (same color and faceplate). They are crazy beautiful in person. As YOU know, even your pics don't do them justice. So happy for you. Please share thoughts as you go. I want to hear how the cable change makes a differences once you burn them in.

I haven't but I am trying to downsize my audio spending so it will be some time before I dare to go down that rabbit hole :)

What intrigues me about the RME is the eq and the option to run ciems without hiss. Also supposedly you don't need an amplifier unless you have very difficult to drive headphones or 2k to burn...

That makes sense, but keep in mine, that if you get the right DAC/amp combo and the right IEM, you shouldn't need EQ much. Do you listen to 80/90's rock? If so, then eq is nice, but most don't do it properly and you end up ruining the sound I feel. What will you feed said DAC with? You can probably do the EQ before feeding the DAC and that would be just as good. I wouldn't personally limit myself that way when picking a DAC/amp. Ask @Ethan Groover what the Codex did for his CIEM's :wink:....
 
Apr 4, 2018 at 11:42 AM Post #12,309 of 40,357
Congrats copy cat, LOL>...:). I got the mini silver wings, but I get daily compliments on the looks of mind (same color and faceplate). They are crazy beautiful in person. As YOU know, even your pics don't do them justice. So happy for you. Please share thoughts as you go. I want to hear how the cable change makes a differences once you burn them in.

Again, kudos to you for posting pics of what I had picked in the website builder but dropped as it didn’t look half as good there, otherwise I wouldn’t have changed it :)
To be fair they’re probably not as dashingly stunning as my VE8, but it has nothing to do with Empire just well, good wood faceplates rock :p
Then again, as good as they look they sound greater :ghost:

They’re obviously not burned in just 7 hours on the clock but... since you ask about cables : switching from Ares II to LionHeart brings a lot to the table, for staters clarity and transparency is well, just another league. The Phantom sound way clearer mostly due to the lowers mids being less forward and bottom end extension is better to my ears. Treble are better defined.

The most unexpected aspect of the sound is bass extension, I found what I am lacking on the VE8 there. I expected good bass extension but reading @flinkenick comparison to the SE5U I would not have assumed what I think is great bass extension and good slam (at least I get quite a kick out of it). Apparently it will get better with burn in from all the comments... Second is how full they sound, while not being overly warm and remaining so clear and transparent.

If I had to sum it up I’d say the Phantom just sound “right” it’s balance in the best sense of the word, you can see the yin and yang in the tuning (winks to @flinkenick there). Of course the words neutral warm are not inadequate to describe the sound signature but I’d say it’s not totally adequate if you think in terms of the listening experience : the Phantom to me sound very lively, walking the fine line to never get too lively, while at the same time never too serious but sure are lively AND serious. I’d say they very much reach the goal of disappearing in favor of the music : it is the star of the show, you get absorbed by it.

The only thing is I found some hints of sibilance but ever so slight and it’s probably due to the burn in not being complete.

I need to get through burn in for further impressions, but I am a very happy camper...

Although the alternative is the VE8...

Well, I need more time to do side by side comparison but it’s more a choice of tuning philosophies than X better than Y.

The VE8 is frankly on the fun side with boosted mid bass, exciting trebles and beautiful mids. I has amazing PRaT, with a high toe tapping factor. At the same time its ability for separation is contrasting with what you can expect from its sound signature, making it a very unique combination.

The Phantom - I dare say - is still on the fun side, just much more reasonably so. Where the VE8 grabs your attention even with the quieter of music, the Phantom feel more true to the character of the track or the music genre. It also feels more coherent, separation on the VE8 can be uncanny (and a guilty pleasure nonetheless). The aspect where the Phantom is more fun is the kick you get out of the sub bass, it really kicks and is one key toe tapping factor over the VE8.

Now as for similarities : both the VE8 and Phantom are full bodied and organic and I’d say soundstage is fairly similar (maybe the Phantom has the edge there especially depth wise, I need more careful A/B).
 
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Apr 4, 2018 at 12:14 PM Post #12,311 of 40,357
Sleeping dogs...




Today is definitely a good day :) First impressions out of the box....i feel pure love.....unconditional and imperturbable love :L3000:
No sound analysis. Most things are said. Ares II will be changed against Eros II+...Legend X is @ Leonidas (awsome) ....that's it. Right now it feels like i found peace and my search has ended.....hopefully for a long time (fingers crossed). Maybe one day i must go custom....goddamnit.

Cheers !
 
Apr 4, 2018 at 12:14 PM Post #12,312 of 40,357
Favorite tips with Legend X? The included tips seal too well and create a pretty significant vacuum in my ears that is slightly uncomfortable.

I love the spiral dots @ both ! Size ML
 
Apr 4, 2018 at 12:15 PM Post #12,313 of 40,357
I’ll dig around for some! Thanks. Using spinfits with good success. The included tips work hilariously well, but creates a pressure I don’t feel with other silicone tips.
 
Apr 4, 2018 at 12:18 PM Post #12,314 of 40,357
Sleeping dogs...Today is definitely a good day :) First impressions out of the box....i feel pure love.....unconditional and imperturbable love :L3000: No sound analysis. Most things are said. Ares II will be changed against Eros II+...Legend X is @ Leonidas (awsome) ....that's it. Right now it feels like i found peace and my search has ended.....hopefully for a long time (fingers crossed). Maybe one day i must go custom....goddamnit.
Cheers !

Well said and congrats :)
I would be overwhelmed with 2 new babies like this at the same time!
 
Apr 4, 2018 at 12:20 PM Post #12,315 of 40,357
I’ll dig around for some! Thanks. Using spinfits with good success. The included tips work hilariously well, but creates a pressure I don’t feel with other silicone tips.

Take into consideration the jvc spiral dot, they have a bigger bore and the silicon is more flexible.

Did you also try using different sizes?
 

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