Empire Ears - Discussion & Impressions (Formerly EarWerkz)
Mar 9, 2018 at 10:44 PM Post #11,656 of 27,256

nick97

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To be honest, Balanced Armatures don't deliver the same visceral, physical movement of air that dynamic drivers do. You will not feel the bass as much.

That's inherently neither bad nor good. It's all a matter of preference. @flinkenick favors the BA sound. Whereas I love the physicality of DDs. Yet we've both been floored by IEMs of the opposite group.

Just be aware there are distinct differences between these technologies, and adjust your expectations accordingly. :wink:
And just like that the decision gets harder! I wish I could hear the suckers before I Buy but I don't think I'll get the opportunity. I enjoy my Noble K10 I'm just looking for something different since I have a disease that won't let me own one headphone for too long before my head explodes:frowning2:
 
Mar 9, 2018 at 10:51 PM Post #11,657 of 27,256

PinkyPowers

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And just like that the decision gets harder! I wish I could hear the suckers before I Buy but I don't think I'll get the opportunity. I enjoy my Noble K10 I'm just looking for something different since I have a disease that won't let me own one headphone for too long before my head explodes:frowning2:

If you've owned both the K10 and Vega then you know the BA and DD sound. If you're fine with either, then go for the IEM that seems to best match the signature you crave.
 
Mar 9, 2018 at 10:54 PM Post #11,658 of 27,256

fuhransahis

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To be honest, Balanced Armatures don't deliver the same visceral, physical movement of air that dynamic drivers do. You will not feel the bass as much.

That's inherently neither bad nor good. It's all a matter of preference. @flinkenick favors the BA sound. Whereas I love the physicality of DDs. Yet we've both been floored by IEMs of the opposite group.

Just be aware there are distinct differences between these technologies, and adjust your expectations accordingly. :wink:

I was doubting that the Phantoms would be for me since they are all BA. I had posted before that I had found BA bass to sound rather... gassy. But that gassiness is gone here. I certainly would not say you don't feel the Phantom's bass as much as DDs in general.

For instance I find that its sub-bass is more present when called for than that of the Fourte - though the Fourte uses a DD, the Phantom's bass feels more natural and fills the soundstage more organically, thought never overbearlingly so. The Fourte still did have more of a DD feel to it, what I can describe as more like walls of bass coming at you vs the more rapid-fire, pellet-like approach BAs usually have, though despite that, it was overall a less natural presentation. The Phantom's bass is incredibly quick and articulate, yet at the same time it has a natural decay to prevent it from sounding like other BAs I've heard (not many, granted - but still). Its warmer tonality also perhaps contributes to that greater presence, without necessarily increasing quantity too much.

So, it's all relative!
 
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Mar 9, 2018 at 11:15 PM Post #11,659 of 27,256

PinkyPowers

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I was doubting that the Phantoms would be for me since they are all BA. I had posted before that I had found BA bass to sound rather... gassy. But that gassiness is gone here. I certainly would not say you don't feel the Phantom's bass as much as DDs in general.

For instance I find that its sub-bass is more present when called for than that of the Fourte - though the Fourte uses a DD, the Phantom's bass feels more natural and fills the soundstage more organically, thought never overbearlingly so. The Fourte still did have more of a DD feel to it, what I can describe as more like walls of bass coming at you vs the more rapid-fire, pellet-like approach BAs usually have, though despite that, it was overall a less natural presentation. The Phantom's bass is incredibly quick and articulate, yet at the same time it has a natural decay to prevent it from sounding like other BAs I've heard (not many, granted - but still).

So, it's all relative!

Fourté has surprisingly minimal bass for a hybrid design. Especially mid-bass. Compared to the 64Audio U12, where you hear bass always, giving the presentation perpetual warmth and fullness. Yet, even with U12's superior quantity, the Dynamic Driver in Fourté still moves the air in a way that is more physical. No Balanced Armature does that. It just sounds different.

But you know this. You've experienced the whole gamut. :)

I just wanted Nick97 to be aware. Coming from Vega and moving on to a BA, he needs to know they won't be the same, no matter how awesome that BA is tuned. This has nothing to do with which is better, but rather expectations. Buying audio gear blind is scary enough without expecting the impossible.
 
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Mar 9, 2018 at 11:34 PM Post #11,660 of 27,256

fuhransahis

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Fourté has surprisingly minimal bass for a hybrid design. Especially mid-bass. Compared to the 64Audio U12, where you hear bass always, giving the presentation perpetual warmth and fullness. Yet, even with U12's superior quantity, the Dynamic Driver in Fourté still moves the air in a way that is more physical. No Balanced Armature does that. It just sounds different.

But you know this. You've experienced the whole gamut. :)

I just wanted Nick97 to be aware. Coming from Vega and moving on to a BA, he needs to know they won't be the same, no matter how awesome that BA is tuned. This has nothing to do with which is better, but rather expectations. Buying audio gear blind is scary enough without expecting the impossible.

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Mar 10, 2018 at 12:11 AM Post #11,661 of 27,256

subguy812

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If you've owned both the K10 and Vega then you know the BA and DD sound. If you're fine with either, then go for the IEM that seems to best match the signature you crave.
Exactly what I was going to say...it can be difficult to fight the urge for something new. Both BA and DD have their merits, I have grown to appreciate DD, but it is only preference, nothing more.
 
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Mar 10, 2018 at 12:50 AM Post #11,662 of 27,256

PinkyPowers

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Exactly what I was going to say...it can be difficult to fight the urge for something new. Both BA and DD have their merits, I have grown to appreciate DD, but it is only preference, nothing more.

Indeed. God know's I've had, and still have, all BA IEMs whose low-end I adore. Only my preference remains DDs. :)
 
Mar 10, 2018 at 3:35 AM Post #11,663 of 27,256

Wyville

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To be honest, Balanced Armatures don't deliver the same visceral, physical movement of air that dynamic drivers do. You will not feel the bass as much.

That's inherently neither bad nor good. It's all a matter of preference. @flinkenick favors the BA sound. Whereas I love the physicality of DDs. Yet we've both been floored by IEMs of the opposite group.

Just be aware there are distinct differences between these technologies, and adjust your expectations accordingly. :wink:
The more IEMs I hear, the more I appreciate the qualities of both BA and DD bass, they just seem to work well for different purposes. To me DD seem to work very well in exciting signatures and, based on what I have read, that seems to be a recurring theme with IEMs like the Vega, Zombie and of course Legend X. I spoke to Eric a few days ago and he loves Legend X for their "Hi Fi" qualities and I saw that at Euphoria Audio they even invite people to compare directly against their B&W 685 HiFi speakers. Now I know nothing about those speakers, but can understand what Eric means. There is a certain physicality to DD that BA's generally can't emulate and it makes the music come alive like a rock concert. With BA I get the impression that those work much better for achieving a natural and realistic sound, as if the excitement makes way for attention to detail. Music comes alive again, but now in a way that will also suit a string quartet without the cello overpowering the violins.

Just my musings based on my experiences so far and why I think the Phantom and Legend X make an extremely nice complimentary pair.
 
Mar 10, 2018 at 6:29 AM Post #11,665 of 27,256

flinkenick

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The question whether or not BA bass is fundamentally different from DD bass, is not the same as whether or not they can deliver that same sense of impact. Dynamic bass has a unique set of qualities that BA's can't match; specifically, the 'analogue' feel of the bass, which makes it sound more realistic.

However, that feeling of true impact is primarily dependent on the quality of the bottom-end extension, rather than the type of driver itself. While DD's generally outperform BA's in this regard, there are examples of iems with BA-driven bass that can provide an authoritative sense of sub-bass impact matching DD's, such as the ES80, 5-Way, and Phantom. Note: this refers to the quality of the impact, not the quantity; DD's often tend to be tuned with slightly more sub-bass emphasis than BA's, which increases the sense of viscerality.

Of course, this isn't to say people will automatically like that of the Phantom, as it remains fundamentally different from DD bass in its overall feel.
 
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Mar 10, 2018 at 7:09 AM Post #11,666 of 27,256

Wyville

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The question whether or not BA bass is fundamentally different from DD bass, is not the same as whether or not they can deliver that same sense of impact. Dynamic bass has a unique set of qualities that BA's can't match; specifically, the 'analogue' feel of the bass, which makes it sound more realistic.

However, that feeling of true impact is primarily dependent on the quality of the bottom-end extension, rather than the type of driver itself. While DD's generally outperform BA's in this regard, there are examples of iems with BA-driven bass that can provide an authoritative sense of sub-bass impact matching DD's, such as the ES80, 5-Way, and Phantom. Note: this refers to the quality of the impact, not the quantity; DD's often tend to be tuned with slightly more sub-bass emphasis than BA's, which increases the sense of viscerality.

Of course, this isn't to say people will automatically like that of the Phantom, as it remains fundamentally different from DD bass in its overall feel.
I am really looking forward to delve into this more deeply once my Phantom arrive, now that I have the hybrid Zombie around as well. I think both might well give a good idea of the differences.
 
Mar 10, 2018 at 8:21 AM Post #11,667 of 27,256

Lucif6r6th

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I was doubting that the Phantoms would be for me since they are all BA. I had posted before that I had found BA bass to sound rather... gassy. But that gassiness is gone here. I certainly would not say you don't feel the Phantom's bass as much as DDs in general.

For instance I find that its sub-bass is more present when called for than that of the Fourte - though the Fourte uses a DD, the Phantom's bass feels more natural and fills the soundstage more organically, thought never overbearlingly so. The Fourte still did have more of a DD feel to it, what I can describe as more like walls of bass coming at you vs the more rapid-fire, pellet-like approach BAs usually have, though despite that, it was overall a less natural presentation. The Phantom's bass is incredibly quick and articulate, yet at the same time it has a natural decay to prevent it from sounding like other BAs I've heard (not many, granted - but still). Its warmer tonality also perhaps contributes to that greater presence, without necessarily increasing quantity too much.

So, it's all relative!
How does the phantom pair with DX200? Is it hissy?
 
Mar 10, 2018 at 8:28 AM Post #11,668 of 27,256
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Good morning from ATL! The new website is expected to launch this Monday and all of the new products will be listed on there alongside the Legacy series. Once it's up we definitely encourage feedback to see how we can make it a better experience for everyone. So far it's much faster and easier to navigate through than the current site so we're definitely stoked to get it up. Thanks for your patience everyone.

I'll be heading out to Hong Kong next week for the Personal Audio Fair and Singapore the following week for Singapore CanJam. I hope to see many of you there!
 
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Mar 10, 2018 at 8:36 AM Post #11,669 of 27,256

Deezel177

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Good morning from ATL! The new website is expected to launch this Monday and all of the new products will be listed on there alongside the Legacy series. Once it's up we definitely encourage feedback to see how we can make it a better experience for everyone. So far it's much faster and easier to navigate through than the current site so we're definitely stoked to get it up. Thanks for your patience everyone.

I'll be heading out to Hong Kong next week for the Personal Audio Fair and Singapore the following week for Singapore CanJam. I hope to see many of you there!

Sound great, man! I'll see you at CanJam with the Phantom's in tow. :wink:
 

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