Empire Ears - Discussion & Impressions (Formerly EarWerkz)
Oct 14, 2021 at 7:15 AM Post #33,586 of 34,886

Skullar

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That's true, but it has to be balanced out by impressions as well. Here, we have a mix of the two, which is healthy. Whereas, the notion that graphs are "not everything" is typically used in the context where impressions are limited and graphs are all we have to go off of. In that case, I personally think you'd still kinda have to take them with a grain of salt until impressions start coming in.
Fair enough. But I personally would always take graph over impressions.

As an example. After i saw the graph. I am fairly confident i will like mids. Because i loved it on Odin. And ai have seem both their graphs.

Where as @aaf evo impressions, while appreciated for being honest and not sugarcoated, did not affect my anticipations in any way or form. Its as he said himself, its just one persons impressions.

But yeh, its just me..

Edit; apologies @aaf evo. The only reason i mentioned you here is because you are quite open about your issue with Evo mids. I know you had enough attention already lol.
 
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Oct 14, 2021 at 7:33 AM Post #33,587 of 34,886

CrocodileDundee

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Well you gotta know your stuff at some point also. I wouldn’t use an original Led Zeppelin recording to evaluate IEM’s because it sounds like it was recorded in an Olympus digital hand recorder.

I don’t think that’s the case here though.
Bingo...I actually wrote something on those lines and left it off. That's no problem to test gear using whatever song you prefer, because you know that song, you know how it should sound, bad or good. that's where we know what to expect and we can say that something is sounding different from what we expect.

Bands and songs that were mentioned, like Led Zeppelin, Pink Floyd, adding Black Sabbath and others, every decade or so they release a new master, so what master are we talking about?

Too many variables...
Billie Eilish albums are impeccably recorded and mastered, or at least that's how I hear them. They're also not chock-full of bright high-energy samples (not that there's anything wrong with that btw).

That's what I was thinking too, but would like to know the answer either way.
Partially disagree... I really like their technics. But if you watch one of their documentaries, they explain a lot how they record and produce their songs. they have songs recorded on a hotel room, on a tour bus, majority of their songs are produced on Fineas bedroom. Even though it sounds amazing. They make the best of what they have and turns out amazing.
 
Oct 14, 2021 at 7:34 AM Post #33,588 of 34,886

Skullar

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Try to buy an Abyss Diana based on graphs. :)

But I agree, if no other reference is available and someone is comfortable enough to understand what to expect by looking at a graph (at least a rough idea), go for it. Don’t put lot’s of money in something your experience is telling that it has a big chance of not working. It’s setting up for failure.
To be honest cans are completely different story. I am not much into them. But their FR graph reading are something not related to iems.
As in you just would not get same results if iem and HP graph were identical.
Probably after time i would understand them too. Just like iem graphs needed some time to understand.
 
Oct 14, 2021 at 7:41 AM Post #33,589 of 34,886

RPKwan

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Just had a quick demo so in no way conclusive. For reference, I had the LX for many years and passed on the Odin due to it not matching my own preference or expectations.

The EVO has some of the most sublime subbass I've heard bar none. However, it's also ironic that to make the best of this you need tracks that can deliver, but for me it becomes overwhelming. Pick any track off 808 & Heartbreaks (I did) and you'll be floored. However, most of my very, very initial impressions align with @aaf evo. I found some harshness in the upper mids and even slightly bright on some tracks. Vocals slightly recessed on other tracks. My dilemma would be where these fit in my rotation if I were to pull the trigger.

Understand these are not burned in and these are very preliminary impressions.

For fun I compared my own cable to the Genesis...
IMG_20211014_191129.jpg
IMG_20211014_183028.jpg
 
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Oct 14, 2021 at 7:47 AM Post #33,590 of 34,886

Auricon

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Maybe it's only at fairly high volume?
EVO’s very easy to drive. My 3MAX was set to Ultimate mode, L gain and DAC volume at 80 with volume control knob between 9-10 o’clock and as low as 8 on M gain.
 
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Oct 14, 2021 at 7:58 AM Post #33,591 of 34,886

korvin12

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Having acclimatised, I don’t regret blind buying EVO. I’m growing increasingly fond of it, Genesis pairs with it quite wonderfully. Tried PlusSound’s copper+ which doesn’t pair with it too well. I’d prob want to keep my 1950s with my customised LX which has finally arrived, can’t wait to collect it!
Bro, if I am not mistaken, your LX is bought from Zeppelin & Co.?
 
Oct 14, 2021 at 8:52 AM Post #33,594 of 34,886

FlowLikeWater

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Hmm. 7 pages of upper mid discussion.

You know (without dragging anyone in particular into this comment) i find it a bit interesting.

The was reoccurring mention of how graphs are not everything and stuff.
Then Evo graph releases and it clearly shows that upper mids are at a level of Odin with more emphasis to lower treble. It just clearly is boosted to
Clearly this must trigger red lights, before pressing purchase button for people sensitive to upper mids. So you would already start thinking about return policies or how much loss you will end up which when selling it.

Its good that things like that are discussed in here. But i really hope it does not come in as surprise to owner when they get disappointed by Evos tuning.

Just my take here:

If i saw an iem comming out and graph displayed. If i see clear midbass emphasis and subbass roll off. Or a recess in upper mids. It would just bounce me from purchase no matter how much praised that iem is.
I would try to audition it for sure. But would never commit to buy if graph is off. Be there a BC driver or not.

Spit on graphs as much as you want. You just cant ignore some obvious readings on them.

Yes there are tolerances and stuff and some thing will be impossible to judge and will not be reliable enough to judge tuning. But in Evo tuning i would never expect a balance out bass and upper mids would i.


Not implying that people made stupid decisions in their purchases. As pre-orders are most of the time a gamble one way or another. And graphs dont surface quick enough after announcements, or if they do there is no way comparing them to something you know, so there are other factors in purchase decisions.

In fact i have 2 preorders now that i have not got a clue about apart of driver set up and trust in manufacturers tuning habits lol.

What i am trying to say is, graphs do tell a lot as long as you know how to read them and work out what you like to see in them.

I don't think anyone was trying to spit on graphs, no need to take it personally man :) It's all for science and saving money....in theory

Graphs are not a simple all-or-nothing approach, they just need to be interpreted correctly, which this thread has definitely accomplished with the upper mids analysis and BCD awareness.

I'm personally enjoying the impressions and comparisons between the EVO and the Odin, Legend X, ie900 (which seems fantastically priced for its capabilities), these are great discussions that help clarify the un-graphable quantities such as timbre, imaging, punch, treble extension etc.

Different viewpoints constructively coming together, EE representative offering helpful and transparent information.....this thread has so much
synergy.jpg
 
Oct 14, 2021 at 9:21 AM Post #33,595 of 34,886

gLer

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All this talk of midrange this and treble that made me a bit batty today, so I decided to take a break from testing and note-taking and just kick back with EVO and one of my all-time favourite albums.

images (5).png

I've been listening to this album since it was released more than 30 years ago, so I can almost replay it in my mind without actually hearing it. I know every single nuance and chord and inflection. It has everything, from sultry vocals to grungy guitars to strings and synths, and some of the best-recorded drumming I've heard.

My take (since I wasn't really taking notes): nailed it. This is 10/10 on EVO. I kept waiting for something to trip up, to sound wrong or off or harsh, but nope, every single note is played back to perfection. The vocals are absolutely impeccable, realistic and detailed, and the separation of vocals and instruments is a testament to EVO's technical chops. I don't recall ever hearing the drums on this album so beautifully rendered: full of kick, punch, splash and weight with zero bloom, bloat or bleed and astonishingly natural attack and decay. This is drum replay of the highest order, like listening on high-end speakers.

If you're a fan of this album, it's a highly recommended experience with EVO.
 
Oct 14, 2021 at 9:43 AM Post #33,596 of 34,886

BobJS

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This FR tab seems quite a bit off. You can kill me but i have never seen 700hz being called upper mids lol.

I know someone already responded to this, but this thread is on fire!

Anyway, responding to your comment; that's what I thought at first. But try an online sine wave generator and sweep through the frequencies and see what you think then. You might be surprised.

Like this one, for example : https://www.szynalski.com/tone-generator/


Edit: Warning : Don't jack up your volume when you get up into the highest octave to compensate for what you may not be able to hear. I don't want to be responsible for you blowing out your equipment or get all the pets in the area howling.
 
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Oct 14, 2021 at 9:50 AM Post #33,597 of 34,886

Deezel177

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I know someone already responded to this, but this thread is on fire!

Anyway, responding to your comment; that's what I thought at first. But try an online sine wave generator and sweep through the frequencies and see what you think then. You might be surprised.

Like this one, for example : https://www.szynalski.com/tone-generator/
That's kind of a semantics thing, though. The upper-midrange of the human voice is different from that of a bass guitar, which is different from that of a piano, which is different from that of a snare drum, etc. It's best just to use the terminology and figures (or thereabouts) that's been agreed on consensus, so everyone is at least on the same page.
 
Oct 14, 2021 at 9:57 AM Post #33,598 of 34,886

Frankie D

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Partially disagree... I really like their technics. But if you watch one of their documentaries, they explain a lot how they record and produce their songs. they have songs recorded on a hotel room, on a tour bus, majority of their songs are produced on Fineas bedroom. Even though it sounds amazing. They make the best of what they have and turns out amazing.
Are they minimally miked recordings? I remember reading they many recordings come out excellent with reduced complexity ( if it is possible to do it that way).
 
Oct 14, 2021 at 10:13 AM Post #33,599 of 34,886

mungster

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Hmm oh dear. I don’t listen to Massive Attack but went to hear those portions that you’ve indicated. I cannot imagine if this would be what I’m hearing - do you think this can be amelierioated or eliminated with (more) burn in? I’ll be receiving EVO next week and will test out with metal/hard rock music.
Yeah that's something you might be worry about if you're a basshead. Somebody mentioned evo have even less bass than odin and i find odin to be balanced sounding.
 
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Oct 14, 2021 at 10:18 AM Post #33,600 of 34,886

Deezel177

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Are they minimally miked recordings? I remember reading they many recordings come out excellent with reduced complexity ( if it is possible to do it that way).
Their songs are always filled with samples, so their recordings are technically full of individually-miked sounds; the furthest thing you can possibly be from a minimally-miked recording.

The reason why a minimally-miked recording rarely comes out compressed is because there’s nothing to compress. If you were to individually-mic a drum kit, for example, you’d be able to mix and compress each and every piece of the kit. Whereas, if you just recorded it with a pair of overheads and a kick mic, that’s all you really have to work with, with the drummer then in control of the dynamics of their playing.
 

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