Empire Ears - Discussion & Impressions (Formerly EarWerkz)
Aug 20, 2020 at 7:11 PM Post #23,881 of 34,132
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I was planning on driving to CanJam in SoCal this year if they have it. That'll make 9 hours seem like a trip to the grocery store.
I am actually considering driving to CanJam SoCal, too. For me it is just over 6 hours, though.
You driving from FL.... you're nuts!! Maybe you should change your profile photo: :wink:
1597965038242.png
 
Aug 20, 2020 at 7:25 PM Post #23,883 of 34,132

CL14715

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I am actually considering driving to CanJam SoCal, too. For me it is just over 6 hours, though.
You driving from FL.... you're nuts!! Maybe you should change your profile photo: :wink:
I was gonna drive through the midwest and make a sightseeing type road trip; canjam being the final destination. Then there's the drive back lmao. Might have to do a one way rental and fly back... but even the flight back is like 10 hours with all the lay-overs.
 
Aug 20, 2020 at 9:11 PM Post #23,885 of 34,132

olddude

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I am actually considering driving to CanJam SoCal, too. For me it is just over 6 hours, though.
You driving from FL.... you're nuts!! Maybe you should change your profile photo: :wink:
1597965038242.png
Seriously? I'd be willing to bet $20 there won't be one. I live a bit more than an hour away from Irvine and things are NOT going well in SoCal re COVID-19. Schools are closed events are closed, Disneyland is closed (very close to Irvine), lots of things are closed. And likely will remain closed until next year. We have a sentient governor and he's taking the virus seriously. If you make hotel reservations, make sure they are refundable because I doubt there is a 1% chance of CanJam happening.
 
Aug 20, 2020 at 10:36 PM Post #23,886 of 34,132

CL14715

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Just a note to anyone who has or will be receiving the Odin soon. Give the album “Ten” by Pearl Jam a go. It really showcases how well the Odin can layer well recorded rock and roll. If you don’t want to burn through a whole album, just listen to the song, “Jeremy”.
 
Aug 20, 2020 at 10:49 PM Post #23,887 of 34,132

NickMit

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HeadphoneMeasurements_ANewStandard_PartI_01c1.jpg
Are his measurements typically accurate or reliable?

@CL14715 again made a very important and correct comment here. I want to put here the link about the article which I read not so long ago here on head-fi about measurements due to the conversation about reviewers reliability and value of measurements. I believe it will be very beneficial to read for anyone who is interested in understanding some technical aspects behind the sound.
https://www.head-fi.org/threads/headphone-measurements-the-new-standard-part-1.937301/#post-15735920

So, one can argue that this review is related to speakers, but actually type of the system does not matter, and the main things stay the same:

1. Even the most advanced systems of previous generation, that cost thousands of dollars, are far from perfection (aside from the average ear vs your own);
2. Although IEMs are inserted into your ears, which greatly decreases wave interference and some other issues of speaker systems, due to the complexity of human ear structure, simple microphone cannot show the frequency response even close to the real one;
3. Even smallest differences and nuances can lead to significant changes in the frequency response;
4. Again, although some improvements have been made, and this new system is much more advanced than previous ones, not to say just some microphone setup, this new system is still far from ideal. And this is putting aside all psycho-acoustic, biological and other factors that also affect the final sound you hear.
5. If you try to argue that yes, your system is not perfect, but it can be used as relative comparison of an IEM list - you are wrong again. Who told you that shift from the "ideal method" (although from modern science perspective it does not exist due to the specific nature of sound perception) is constant for every IEM? Small spoiler - it is not :open_mouth:

Scientist myself, I always laugh when someone is supporting reviews with measurements, stating more "scientific approach", searching for the "ideal frequency response" or relying on such measurements for the purchase. Such people are extremely delusional. Don't get me wrong - if you want to spend your time doing this - you are welcome. The world is just a huge sandpit. But for those who put on a serious face, stating that you are ding some serious stuff and trying to convince others that you are right and they are wrong - sorry to dissapoint you, buth this is something like building nuclear reactor with lego. So, please, do not refer to such opinions as analytical or scientific in comparison to just "what I hear" ones, because they are not. Creating a data array with some statistics is not equal to scientific approach, as it lacks background of fundamental research behind and is with 99.(9)% not reliable and misleading. Unfortunately, most of the people who are not in the academic sector have very approximate understanding about what the real science is.
 
Aug 20, 2020 at 11:16 PM Post #23,888 of 34,132

CL14715

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@CL14715 again made a very important and correct comment here. I want to put here the link about the article which I read not so long ago here on head-fi about measurements due to the conversation about reviewers reliability and value of measurements. I believe it will be very beneficial to read for anyone who is interested in understanding some technical aspects behind the sound.
https://www.head-fi.org/threads/headphone-measurements-the-new-standard-part-1.937301/#post-15735920

So, one can argue that this review is related to speakers, but actually type of the system does not matter, and the main things stay the same:

1. Even the most advanced systems of previous generation, that cost thousands of dollars, are far from perfection (aside from the average ear vs your own);
2. Although IEMs are inserted into your ears, which greatly decreases wave interference and some other issues of speaker systems, due to the complexity of human ear structure, simple microphone cannot show the frequency response even close to the real one;
3. Even smallest differences and nuances can lead to significant changes in the frequency response;
4. Again, although some improvements have been made, and this new system is much more advanced than previous ones, not to say just some microphone setup, this new system is still far from ideal. And this is putting aside all psycho-acoustic, biological and other factors that also affect the final sound you hear.
5. If you try to argue that yes, your system is not perfect, but it can be used as relative comparison of an IEM list - you are wrong again. Who told you that shift from the "ideal method" (although from modern science perspective it does not exist due to the specific nature of sound perception) is constant for every IEM? Small spoiler - it is not :open_mouth:

Scientist myself, I always laugh when someone is supporting reviews with measurements, stating more "scientific approach", searching for the "ideal frequency response" or relying on such measurements for the purchase. Such people are extremely delusional. Don't get me wrong - if you want to spend your time doing this - you are welcome. The world is just a huge sandpit. But for those who put on a serious face, stating that you are ding some serious stuff and trying to convince others that you are right and they are wrong - sorry to dissapoint you, buth this is something like building nuclear reactor with lego. So, please, do not refer to such opinions as analytical or scientific in comparison to just "what I hear" ones, because they are not. Creating a data array with some statistics is not equal to scientific approach, as it lacks background of fundamental research behind and is with 99.(9)% not reliable and misleading. Unfortunately, most of the people who are not in the academic sector have very approximate understanding about what the real science is.
Compounding this, I found the origination of his Odin graph. Under it was a comment that said, “hollow mids”. Besides laughing at the presumptuous idiocy, I realized people really believe this crap. How in gods name can you judge the tonal accuracy or timbre of an IEM on a graph? I can see why manufacturers don’t like graphs and why people should only use them as a reference for frequency response and nothing more.
 
Aug 20, 2020 at 11:28 PM Post #23,889 of 34,132

jwbrent

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I am actually considering driving to CanJam SoCal, too. For me it is just over 6 hours, though.
You driving from FL.... you're nuts!! Maybe you should change your profile photo: :wink:
1597965038242.png

Well, if CanJam SoCal happens, I’m a half hour away and volunteered to help out. I hope the virus doesn’t spoil the plans.
 
Aug 21, 2020 at 12:03 AM Post #23,890 of 34,132

Deezel177

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@CL14715 again made a very important and correct comment here. I want to put here the link about the article which I read not so long ago here on head-fi about measurements due to the conversation about reviewers reliability and value of measurements. I believe it will be very beneficial to read for anyone who is interested in understanding some technical aspects behind the sound.
https://www.head-fi.org/threads/headphone-measurements-the-new-standard-part-1.937301/#post-15735920

So, one can argue that this review is related to speakers, but actually type of the system does not matter, and the main things stay the same:

1. Even the most advanced systems of previous generation, that cost thousands of dollars, are far from perfection (aside from the average ear vs your own);
2. Although IEMs are inserted into your ears, which greatly decreases wave interference and some other issues of speaker systems, due to the complexity of human ear structure, simple microphone cannot show the frequency response even close to the real one;
3. Even smallest differences and nuances can lead to significant changes in the frequency response;
4. Again, although some improvements have been made, and this new system is much more advanced than previous ones, not to say just some microphone setup, this new system is still far from ideal. And this is putting aside all psycho-acoustic, biological and other factors that also affect the final sound you hear.
5. If you try to argue that yes, your system is not perfect, but it can be used as relative comparison of an IEM list - you are wrong again. Who told you that shift from the "ideal method" (although from modern science perspective it does not exist due to the specific nature of sound perception) is constant for every IEM? Small spoiler - it is not :open_mouth:

Scientist myself, I always laugh when someone is supporting reviews with measurements, stating more "scientific approach", searching for the "ideal frequency response" or relying on such measurements for the purchase. Such people are extremely delusional. Don't get me wrong - if you want to spend your time doing this - you are welcome. The world is just a huge sandpit. But for those who put on a serious face, stating that you are ding some serious stuff and trying to convince others that you are right and they are wrong - sorry to dissapoint you, buth this is something like building nuclear reactor with lego. So, please, do not refer to such opinions as analytical or scientific in comparison to just "what I hear" ones, because they are not. Creating a data array with some statistics is not equal to scientific approach, as it lacks background of fundamental research behind and is with 99.(9)% not reliable and misleading. Unfortunately, most of the people who are not in the academic sector have very approximate understanding about what the real science is.

Great job on highlighting this. These are the uncertainties and variances I mentioned earlier. And, it’s also why a measurement is useless unless it’s measured against a known, confirmed standard with bulletproof methodology and gear. It’s either that or you’ve built up enough of a repertoire/database that you can use the different graphs as points-of-reference for each other, rather than isolated data points.
 
Aug 21, 2020 at 12:13 AM Post #23,891 of 34,132

mr.karmalicious

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Speaking of that graph, this review is out. Just have it on in the background; sounds very positive regardless of your opinions of the guy.

I'm on my phone so I don't want to Get Into It, but the absolutely absurd arguments against the very idea of measurement in the audio world continue to deeply tickle me. "How can you judge tonal accuracy or timbre on a graph?!" What, uh, do you think these are graphs of?
 
Aug 21, 2020 at 1:13 AM Post #23,892 of 34,132

proedros

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i feel sorry for people who judge a iem based on some graphs instead of their ears....

bummer.
 
Aug 21, 2020 at 1:47 AM Post #23,894 of 34,132

Damz87

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@Kristy Song. Big thanks to Zeppelin for going the extra mile for this gem of an IEM. Gonna be a great weekend ahead!

78!

76 would’ve been good to match your username :p haha

congrats bro :)
 

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