[AdamZuf]

hey there!
i'm experiencing some low bass problem with my used EMP+DT880.
the problem really doesn't even touch the midrange, which is the best midrange i can describe.
but bass gutars and drum kicks are too weak/laid back sometimes, depends of recording. sometimes it's very good.
but the whole impression of recordings's balance is different with my EMP then in any other system. i have both the 3 years old original tubes, and also gold pinned amperex and sylvania GB6201, but switching them doesn't seem to affect sound enough.
until my ART DAC is here, i use a Darla 20 Bit soundcard, and i have also a crappy SC installed too, which emphesize the bass more, but yet...not enough!
the EMP clips sometimes in a the highest levels i listen to.
no, i didn't try another source...but come on.. the darla 20 is the source also to my living room speakers (which are really ok) and has definetly higher output then the other SC, and its line out are RCA's. i don't think it can be described as "low output".
i'm also experiencing a compression like effect when there a load of sounds in complex music at the higher volumes of the recordings.


help!!

 

[pigmode]

I had an EMP for a brief time in combination with an A-T W2002.

The only time I experienced clipping is with a NOS pair of Telefunken output tubes. Other tubes used were a variety of Amperex BBs and Orange Globes. Never did I have to turn the vol. anywhere near half way. Do you have a tested set of tubes you can reference as a control?




Quote:

i'm experiencing some low bass problem with my used EMP+DT880. the problem really doesn't even touch the midrange, which is the best midrange i can describe. but bass gutars and drum kicks are too weak/laid back sometimes, depends of recording. sometimes it's very good. but the whole impression of recordings's balance is different with my EMP then in any other system.

Offhand, that doesn't seem like a problem caused by the amp. Verify your tubes first.

 

[markl]

I experienced clipping with the regular Earmax and the HD600, but not the Pro. However, whether it's the Pro or the regular version, IMO (FWIW, YMMV etc.) it's a very nice liquid tubey-flavored amp that's also unfortunately under-powered (they use a wall-wart as a power supply), especially if like me you listen chiefly to rock and listen fairly loud. I suspect you have the amp turned up too high, and that accounts for clipping. If you can't get satisfactory volume level, it may be time to move on to a new amp.

Mark

 

[AdamZuf]

CHECK THIS OUT!
very interesting, problem solved 50%!

i tried to chain: SC->DJ mixer's HP out->EMP->DT880
or: SC->Sansui integrated HP out->EMP->DT880
bass grip is online! no compression too!
i tried this at various volumes at the mixer/integrated amp (compensating for volume with the EMP), and bass is still there. so it's not the sources volume. it's something else.
output impendance of my soundcards???

BTW, in both chain experiment, the amp tended to clip quite easy, but i don't want to get into conclusions, because from the technical (electrical) point of view, i don't have a clue what i'm doing

plus, i tested it with EXTREMLY crappy cables (damn, international shipping, damn you)
but could it clip because the sweet spot is somewhere between the soundcards's output to the headphone out of my integrated amp ir the mixers'?

and why solved 50%?
because i don't know if my ART will act the same

 

[AdamZuf]

Quote:

orginal owner wrote on 06-17-2003 11:32 PM: You're right, the problem didn't show up on my end. I'm using an M-audio Revolution sound card, and my Sony CD3000s. perhaps the Beyers just don't have enough bass response for you? I'm thinking changing tubes to OTHER tubes might give you what you want ie. not what you have now. why don't you try changing the input tubes to some other tubes that people recommend? like the Telefunken? actually, why don't you get the Sony CD3000s. I think you'd be VERY happy with the bass response there

well..the DT880 owners of you know how deep they can go..
i can't find any other reason except impendance for the problem, so i'll ask a little question, based on that, and on the fact he is using a soundcard too (and maybe it acts just the same from this aspect) :
could it be that the certain phones wouldn't match the source's output impendance with the EMP, and other will react perfectly?

i'm just curious.. i believe this is not the problem itself but thought of expanding my understanding a bit

 

[AdamZuf]

mark,
you had clipping problems too even with ety's, but others say the EMP is killer even with CD3000 or grado's.
and if you notice we have too many "bad" EMP's...which really doesn't fit the class of this amp, not mentioning it's german!
and it doesn't make sense that a new buyer will have the same problem i had (more or less), and my EMP is 3 years old!

i guess the EMP is source sensitive. did you try to compare the specs of your test source with others' who had no problem with the EMP?

 

[Tomcat]

Quote:

Originally posted by AdamZuf i guess the EMP is source sensitive.

Adam,

This could be. Why don't just take your EMP/880 combo to a store and listen to a couple of CDPs as sources? That's probably the easiest way to find out if there is a lack of synergy between your Darla and the EMP or whether the EMP is to blame.

 

[JaZZ]

It could be your soundcard. Maybe its output impedance curve has an increasing tendency toward low frequencies, maybe its frequency response drops down, both possible consequences of undersized buffer capacitors in the signal path. Do you have an opportunity to measure it? Unless your EMP is defective somehow (not very likely), I doubt it could have much less bass (even with different tubes) than other samples, like mine, and the EMP normally has a strong bass!

I hope you will be happy in the end... anyhow I feel responsible...

BTW, you could try to further brake in the DT 880 with really loud bass signals.

 

[AdamZuf]

well of coarse it's my soundcard, if both my integrated amp and my mixer pass along a good signal to the EMP!
more then that, if the EMP is well balanced (though sound quality sucks because of the complex audio chain) after it went through my soundcards, it says that it's not a sound balance problem with the soundcards, so i guess it HAS to be impendace.

 

[AdamZuf]

and i was right!
i got the Meier Cross-1 crossfeed device. its bass and treble controls are actually impendance range selectors for the source and the amp. not talking about that this device is a total killer, everything is right now thru my soundcard.
thread ended

Jazz, i thank you very much for your advice! i was happy with it, and i'm very happy with it, and actually it sounds beautiful either way. in fact, i guess i can sometime prefer the old "wrong" setting, on ethnical or piano/vocal music.. and i have flexibility now with the Cross-1, very nice.

now..i think the E80CC is waiting for me at the post office

 

[AdamZuf]

impendance adventures continue:

the cross1 was very helpful..but after passing thru a lot of recordings, i decided the change ain't 100%.

ok..i got this little 120 Ohm (i think) i got from jan meier when i bought my corda. it's a mini->mini adapeter, that you should use if you plug your phones to certain integrated amps that their output impendance ain't ideal for your phones (if i remember correct) well.. with my SC i tried it..but the sound sucked *****. yes, more bass grip, but muddy like hell.well..i guess my SC ain't more then 2V.

now..i got my ART. voltage output is about 7V i think. i plugged the adapter. now i see why the EMP cost me so much. amazing.
and now i have much more options to play with with the Cross-1.
amazing reality, day and night change.. it roars!
can't wait to tuberoll a bit with that.
foot tap, ladies & gentlmen!

i have no intention even try to remove the adapter..until i'll get a better setup. should i try to put 120 Ohm resistors in my cables, before the amp? how do you guys think it will sound?

and i also thought..maybe there are bad resistors in my amp? (i'm sorry that was an ignorant question)
any other thoughts?
thanks

 

[JaZZ]

Hi Adam!

I'm surprised that you insist

in using the 120-ohm adapter -- which so far I had no use for... neither with HD 600 nor with DT 880. The 0-ohm jack on my HA-2 as well as the EMP without the adaptor sounded way more neutral. Since you now listen through the ART DI/O, it's probably (?) not your soundcard which is to blame, but your own preference, your need for a pronounced bass...

(?) ...I just don't know.

No, some 120-ohm or whatsoever resistors between source and amp have no beneficial effect, because the EMP's input impedance most likely is linear, so there would be no alteration of the electrical frequency response as in the case of resistors switched between the amp and the headphone with its nonlinear impedance curve.

There's no graph of the DT 880's impedance response available, so this curve has to serve as an example, to imagine the sonic consequences from a 120-ohm serial resistor. Note that 120 ohm in series to ~700 ohm cause less attenuation than when in series to 250 ohm -- thus the impact on the frequency response.

BTW: what happened to your E80CC experiment?

 

[AdamZuf]

jazz, i'm not a basshead for sure. i just know what a good bass is.
it took me sometime to understand, as this whole hi-fi/heaphone thing is kind of new to me, i come from the world of playing music..
i care more about naturality then tonal balance. the previous owner found no bass problem whatsoever with the EMP and the CD3000 (let's say we believe him

)

mmm...wait! your EMP is actually Brockspier, not "EMP", right?
and you're the only 1 i know here that uses both EMP and DT880.
i understand that both amp are different (according to Tomcat, he says it's mainly the PS)
maybe the original EMP just ain't a good combo with the DT880, and yours is?

if not...let's get back to that there might be something wrong with my EMP... after we see that the adapter helped (i was shocked, no less, i can't even describe the creeps i had in my body), what could be wrong? bad resistors? maybe someone modded it?

anyway..thanks for answer..nice to hear from you again marcel

 

[JaZZ]

Adam...

...no, I have a regular (Brocksieper) Earmax Pro, and this since one year now. It's most likely the same as yours. BTW, I can't imagine that «bad resistors» can cause lacking bass, rather wrong resistors, but who should have replaced right ones with wrong ones...

So you're no basshead...

hhmmm... All I can say is that my EMP has a very similar tonal balance as the HA-2, and rather a tiny bit more bass than the former, certainly not less. But I still refuse to believe that your unit could be defective in any way. It would be helpful if you had different sources ([P]CD-, MD-, MP3-player?) and amps at your disposal to compare. How about your Porta Corda? Mine (version I) sounds a bit lean compared to the EMP.

You forgot to answer: what happened to your E80CC experiment?

 

[AdamZuf]

Quote:

Originally posted by JaZZ There's no graph of the DT 880's impedance response available, so this curve has to serve as an example, to imagine the sonic consequences from a 120-ohm serial resistor. Note that 120 ohm in series to ~700 ohm cause less attenuation than when in series to 250 ohm -- thus the impact on the frequency response. [/B]

please explain that more, and how should i act, if at all. different resistors worth a try?

Quote:

Originally posted by JaZZ I have a regular (Brocksieper) Earmax Pro, and this since one year now[/B]

Quote:

Originally posted by JaZZ BTW, I can't imagine that «bad resistors» can cause lacking bass, rather wrong resistors, but who should have replaced right ones with wrong ones...

those were my thought exactly, as i'm the 3rd owner of the amp.
i tried to reach Brocksieper but failed..can you please help me out with getting his e-mail address, please? you can also ask him if your version is the newer version with the altered power supply, may that would give another base.
BTW, do you know other EMP+DT880 oweners?

anyway..without the 120 Ohm adapter in the EMP, both the corda and my integrated sansui have more bass. i tried the EMP with a very good soundcard, owned by a hi-fi speaker maker, my original soundcard and the ART. all the same, more or less, in that regard.

another thing: the fact that the adapter did great doesn't meen that this is the optimal way to go..in fact..it is more likely that it is NOT..so i feel like getting to the bottom of this when i think of it..