Eminem

[Onix]

All I am going to say is: For great Hip-Hop check a sister duo name Les Nubians. This from a rock and jazz guy.

As for Eminem, one of my wife's cousins was really surprised when I played Aerosmith's "Toys in the Attic" for her. She was like "hey, they are ripping Eminem's song!!!". And Led Zeppelin's "Kashemere" got a very similar reaction: "Hey, that's P. Diddy's!!! Who are those guys?"

Youth, poor youth.

 

[Ttvetjanu]

What I like about eminem is that in some songs he (subtextually?) tells a narrative about his life.

 

[jagger333]

i strongly disagree with those that say rap/hip-hop is crap...no its just a genre that you didn't learn to or cannot appreciate...and no beastie boys does NOT make rap/hip-hop..

about eminem as a rap artist....he sucks...he can't really rhyme in his earlier albums just fast speakin...now he's gettin a lil better at rappin...but compare him to tupac who freestyles day in day out, he's nothin...he is mostly famous cuz he's the first white dude that made it

i think REAL rap and hip-hop have died out as it became mainstream when every white boy starts to blast it in their cars... rap at its best is back in the days in the 90s with dre biggie and tupac when they actually flow and rap about somethin more important than hoes and bling bling which is in every song nowadays...

that's just how i feel....

 

[saint.panda]

I liked a lot of Enimen's works such as "Stan", "Loose Yourself" or "Criminal". I liked the flow to his rhymes, the lyrics (partially), beats, changes, energy conveyed, etc. Stan in particular, despite having been played at least a million times on radios, is one of my favourite hip hop tracks. He might no rap as fast on this track as your average rapper would but if speed was a definite criteria for lyrical accomplishment in general than poetry slams would fail according to these criteria.


Anyway, I haven't been too much into his latest work because there was hardly anything new and my musical tastes have changed but nonetheless, "Marshall Mathers" was a really good CD in my opinion. Perhaps he doesn't sound like some of the other respected hip hop artists but that doesn't make his work any worse just because he lacks conformity to the supposedly higher standard. What I also don't like are those "funny songs" as Ttvetjanu already mentioned but hey, your mileage may vary. The refrain on "Criminal" has an excellent flow to it and there's something smooth about the way he accencuates his words in the chorus.

Edit: However, his deragatory attitude towards certain groups of people, although I'm unsure whether it's only his twisted sense of irony, is something I don't like.


And anybody disagreeing with hip hop being music, take a listen to The Roots or Guru Jazzmatazz. These people know more about music than most other people in the business ever will. Still, even the Root's obvious skills of handling their instruments or writing music doesn't make them more of a musician than Eminem because there are no fixed criteria to music as long as there's an audience. You could argue that making an absolute statement on disagreeing with absolute statements presents a contradiction, so just take it as an opinion if you will.
Not liking a particular style - why not; taking a musician apart - sure if it's legitimate criticism (although always to a certain set of criteria); specifying something as not being music, however, speaks of perhaps musical arrogance, maybe overconfidence in one own's musical preferences but certainly reveals the belief in an absolute set of criteria of "music" ought to be. What is music anyway? Going by a popular Indian definition, music is the violation of silence. There have been people calling Shakespeare's poems "music" although these people certainly wouldn't want me using Shakespeare in Eminem's context... Just my opinion.

 

[iancraig10]

The line has been drawn for me with Eminem by the recent album where he sampled himself taking a c**p. Now that's nasty. If he stopped the tastless **** I would respect him more.

He's Just Lost It as far as I'm concerned. He's now a mu****ian as far as I'm concerned.

 

[Ttvetjanu]

Quote:

Originally Posted by saint.panda Not liking a particular style - why not; taking a musician apart - sure if it's legitimate criticism (although always to a certain set of criteria); specifying something as not being music, however, speaks of perhaps musical arrogance, maybe overconfidence in one own's musical preferences but certainly reveals the belief in an absolute set of criteria of "music" ought to be. What is music anyway? Going by a popular Indian definition, music is the violation of silence. There have been people calling Shakespeare's poems "music" although these people certainly wouldn't want me using Shakespeare in Eminem's context... Just my opinion.

Which brings us the the definition of art. How hard is it really to given an accurate description of art? Is it something that you do for a living or something you feel like doing? I think Music and Art relate very strongly, altho songs like "Candy shop" may (if it is your opinion) have nothing to do with art.

Suprisingly deep discussions ironically for a topic; "Eminem".

I mean, even if you sing for yourself it is music, it does not even need to haven an audience?

I think the only line to draw for music is when it becomes 100% purely commercial, not one bit of anything else but making money. When that happens, id say it isnt music.

PS. I find Eminems comments on current issues in "Encore" funny.

 

[Feanor]

The Slim Shady LP was the only album of his that did it for me. I really liked that one, a friend dubbed it onto a cassette and it was maybe the only thing I listened to from my walkman that whole summer. I knew all the lyrics on it, not from a conscious will to learn them, I just heard it that much.
When the second? album came out, I brought it without a listen. This turned out to be a mistake, since (to me), it was about 1/10th as good as the one before it. His music since then failed to grip me, although some "songs" are fun.
What I noticed is that his music became much more self-referential after he got successful. By this I mean that he raps about rapping and stardom and **** like that. He did have a few songs like that in the first album, but nowhere near this amount. Also, I feel he lost a bit of the edge he had back then, and is compensating by over-acting.

 

[Feanor]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ttvetjanu Which brings us the the definition of art. How hard is it really to given an accurate description of art? Is it something that you do for a living or something you feel like doing? I think Music and Art relate very strongly, altho songs like "Candy shop" may (if it is your opinion) have nothing to do with art.

Music IS Art.

 

[saint.panda]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ttvetjanu I mean, even if you sing for yourself it is music, it does not even need to haven an audience?

You'd be the audience

But sophistry aside, I wasn't trying to define music through the audience since it would contradict to what I said later on. It was but an example although I should have said so more explicitly.
Quote:

I think the only line to draw for music is when it becomes 100% purely commercial, not one bit of anything else but making money. When that happens, id say it isnt music.

Very good point although I slightly disagree. What if a certain piece of music is written and preformed out of commercial interests only but accidentally happens to be a song that hits your emotions on the mark or even connects two people? (I can hardly imagine Candy shop being up to this task but you never know what's going at the local clubs).
I think this would be an interesting case for the ad hominem fallacy in which the musical product, a particular song or CD, would be the argument that should not be condemned due to its condemnable origins. Unufortunately, this doesn't happen to be such a simple case since unlike in a purely rational argument, the musician, or non-musician if going by your reason, is always more or less present in his music. For instance, a case such as Wagner and the anti-semitic aspects in his music cannot be easily reduced to a simple ad hominem fallacy although it would prove almost as convenient as claming the opposite. So I think, absolute statements on music or art in general should be taken with caution even though neat conclusion have the immediate appeal.

Anyway, on my first encounters with Eminem I used to regularly consult with my English dictionary to find out what he was actually trying to communicate only to realize that most of the words were not listed.

 

[EyeAmEye]

The boy is a talentess, classless, pointless clod who should creep back into the sewer he crawled out of. And while he's at it, he can take the whole genre with him, I'm sick of hearing the whole depressing lot of them.

 

[iancraig10]

What I really don't understand is how he has done so well in the US market. The media cut out all the silly nonsense in things like Jerry Springer making it just a string of bleeps while Slim Shady Boy F's his way through every little nook and cranny he can talk about!!

The man is nasty.

 

[Rempert]

Quote:

Originally Posted by jagger333 about eminem as a rap artist....he sucks...he can't really rhyme in his earlier albums just fast speakin...now he's gettin a lil better at rappin...but compare him to tupac who freestyles day in day out, he's nothin...he is mostly famous cuz he's the first white dude that made it

Well, you're entitled to your opinion that Eminem sucks, and a lot of people would agree with you that he is no Tupac. (By the way, did you hear who produced Tupac's last album?

) But it baffles me a little bit that you say he can't really rhyme in his earlier albums?!:

There´s people that love me and people that hate me
But it´s the evil that made me this backstabbing, deceitful, and shady
I want the money, the women, the fortune, and fame
That Means I´ll end up burning in hell scorching in flame
That means I´m stealing your checkbook and forging your name
Lifetime bliss for eternal torture and pain
Right now I feel like I just hit the rock bottom
I got problems, now everybody on my block's got ´em
I´m screaming like those two cops when 2pac shot ´em
Holding two glocks, I hope your doors got new locks on ´em
My daughter´s feet ain´t got no shoes or sock´s on ´em
And them rings you wearing look like they got a few rocks on ´em
And while you flaunting them I could be taking them to shops to pawn them
I got a couple of rings and a brand new watch you want ´em?
Cause I never went gold off one song
I´m running up on someone´s lawns with guns drawn

 

[Feanor]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rempert There´s people that love me and people that hate me... I´m running up on someone´s lawns with guns drawn

Hehe, the early songs where the ****.

 

[EyeAmEye]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rempert Well, you're entitled to your opinion that Eminem sucks, and a lot of people would agree with you that he is no Tupac. (By the way, did you hear who produced Tupac's last album? ) But it baffles me a little bit that you say he can't really rhyme in his earlier albums?!: There´s people that love me and people that hate me But it´s the evil that made me this backstabbing, deceitful, and shady I want the money, the women, the fortune, and fame That Means I´ll end up burning in hell scorching in flame That means I´m stealing your checkbook and forging your name Lifetime bliss for eternal torture and pain Right now I feel like I just hit the rock bottom I got problems, now everybody on my block's got ´em I´m screaming like those two cops when 2pac shot ´em Holding two glocks, I hope your doors got new locks on ´em My daughter´s feet ain´t got no shoes or sock´s on ´em And them rings you wearing look like they got a few rocks on ´em And while you flaunting them I could be taking them to shops to pawn them I got a couple of rings and a brand new watch you want ´em? Cause I never went gold off one song I´m running up on someone´s lawns with guns drawn

That's plain awful rhyming, like MOST (emphasis for the flamers) hip-hop. When you have to resort to ending every line with "'em", you have no real rhyming talent, whatsoever.

 

[iancraig10]

Reading this got me listening again - the sheer volume and compression on his CD's is quite amazing. On the verge of distortion.