[Krisna13]

That's good to know! I hope nano under direct mode will bypass the amp part, to provide a clean 2v signal.

I'm using Chord Mojo at my working place. The sound quality is superb for its price or size. The only complaint I've got is the soundstage being relatively smaller than what HD600 can truly deliver, especially after comparing it to a desktop dac (but everything else is quite good).

I'm also using COS H1 dac at my home. This DAC pushes HD600 to a even better. The sound is seducive wih very wide and large soundstage.

Nevertheless, Mojo is definitely still a very good portable + semi-desktop use dac, likely the best under $500. So I'm currently waiting for upgrading it to Chord Hugo 2, because I'm quite satisfied with it.

Good to have some reference on the Mojo, thank you. Just to clarify for anyone else reading its the iFi iDSD Micro and not nano, the nano doesn't have that function of choosing between direct and pre-amp mode. 
 
Unfortunately the Mojo is $700 where I am (Indonesia) for reasons unbeknownst to me, probably taxes and all. Still a consideration however, ill see how it goes once I get the iDSD micro back from repair. Have you tried any other headphones with the Mojo? I'm considering of getting the HD600 or 650 as well just coz.
 
I looked up the COS H1...looks like a true beast. I'm not yet at that level 

. 
 
A quick update on the Watson, as this thread is about it after all. 
 
Perhaps it was the Angels of Music gifting their Grace, the Universe saying YES, or something else but there is no longer any distortion!!! Even at the volumes I mentioned in my original post. The iFi iDSD nano definitely has a terribly weak output from the RCAs and the volume knob on the Watson is still between 12-2 o'clock and 3-6 on the iDSD depending on the songs, but sweet Jesus does it perform! 
 
I've only tested it with the Fostex so far (HE500 tomorrow), and it's a completely different headphone! I almost hated it when I first got it, it was simply too much of everything, the Watson has fixed this 'problem'. I know hear what the hype is all about. The Fostex are still bright to me, but I do prefer a warmer sound. Maybe after some tweeking with those nozzles in the amp I can get it even warmer and still maintain resolution. The textures its added to the TRP50s is almost tear worthy. 
 
Looking forward to doing a review of the Watson after some more testing. 
 
My first experience with any forum and I come across wonderfully kind and helpful people like you @circlecrystal, thank you again for all that you've shared. 

 

[circlecrystal]

Good to have some reference on the Mojo, thank you. Just to clarify for anyone else reading its the iFi iDSD Micro and not nano, the nano doesn't have that function of choosing between direct and pre-amp mode. 

Unfortunately the Mojo is $700 where I am (Indonesia) for reasons unbeknownst to me, probably taxes and all. Still a consideration however, ill see how it goes once I get the iDSD micro back from repair. Have you tried any other headphones with the Mojo? I'm considering of getting the HD600 or 650 as well just coz.

I looked up the COS H1...looks like a true beast. I'm not yet at that level  . 

A quick update on the Watson, as this thread is about it after all. 

Perhaps it was the Angels of Music gifting their Grace, the Universe saying YES, or something else but there is no longer any distortion!!! Even at the volumes I mentioned in my original post. The iFi iDSD nano definitely has a terribly weak output from the RCAs and the volume knob on the Watson is still between 12-2 o'clock and 3-6 on the iDSD depending on the songs, but sweet Jesus does it perform! 

I've only tested it with the Fostex so far (HE500 tomorrow), and it's a completely different headphone! I almost hated it when I first got it, it was simply too much of everything, the Watson has fixed this 'problem'. I know hear what the hype is all about. The Fostex are still bright to me, but I do prefer a warmer sound. Maybe after some tweeking with those nozzles in the amp I can get it even warmer and still maintain resolution. The textures its added to the TRP50s is almost tear worthy. 

Looking forward to doing a review of the Watson after some more testing. 

My first experience with any forum and I come across wonderfully kind and helpful people like you @circlecrystal
, thank you again for all that you've shared. 

You are welcome! I'm glad something I said can help you.

As for $700 price tag for a Chord Mojo, I won't say it's not a worthy purchase... But it's definitely something a a little overpriced.

For $700 I would expect something more versatile than Mojo... However, the truth is: There is no such thing for at that price, yet.

Which is to say, one of the best choices (and likely the best choice) portable dac below $2500 is Mojo.
Then Hugo2.

I also hear many people saying GeekOut is really good for portable use, even better than Mojo. And Schiit desktop dac is also better than hugo or hugo tt...

Even though to my ears I still prefer Mojo and Hugo much more, I think you should have a listen to GeekOut and Schiit products when considering what to buy.

 

[gug42]

You can also look for a xduoo xd-05,  good, and not expensive.
 
Well your opinion about the HE 500 paring with watson really interest me
I have one paired with modi multibit and project ember : a little too bright for  my taste

 

[circlecrystal]

Just found the middle positioned knob sounds most neutral for Mojo (optical) for long listening seesion.

Left positioned knob does have the sweetest tremble overtones, which gives the widest soundstage amd most open airy feel.

For shorter listening session, the left positioned knob does sound most impressive. However, for longer listening session, I found middle positioned knob sounds most neutral and smooth for my ear.

 

[Krisna13]

You are welcome! I'm glad something I said can help you.

As for $700 price tag for a Chord Mojo, I won't say it's not a worthy purchase... But it's definitely something a a little overpriced.

For $700 I would expect something more versatile than Mojo... However, the truth is: There is no such thing for at that price, yet.

Which is to say, one of the best choices (and likely the best choice) portable dac below $2500 is Mojo.
Then Hugo2.

I also hear many people saying GeekOut is really good for portable use, even better than Mojo. And Schiit desktop dac is also better than hugo or hugo tt...

Even though to my ears I still prefer Mojo and Hugo much more, I think you should have a listen to GeekOut and Schiit products when considering what to buy.

Sorry for not replying sooner @circlecrystal, I was literally glued to the Watson with my different headphones/earphones for the past few days. 
 
With every session the amp sounds better and better, really and truly an amazing product for its price. 
 
I doubt I'll get another dac for now, will wait for the iDSD micro to return.
 
I'm getting great results from using my Xduoo XD 5 @gug42 as a dac via line out. In my opinion its a relatively 'bright' sounding dac/amp and paring it with the Watson seems to 'neutralize' it, adding resolution too. 
 
@circlecrystal  When you turn the knobs, is the amp powered on or off? Also are you using a short screwdriver or taking the top part of the unit off?

 

[gug42]

Thx for your return about xduoo xd05.  By the way first time someone says "brigh", neutral at least (without changing the aop).
 
By the way nobody compare it to the famous project ember ?
I've got one ... so taking a Elemental Watson could be a money wasting, no ?

 

[Krisna13]

  Thx for your return about xduoo xd05.  By the way first time someone says "brigh", neutral at least (without changing the aop).
 
By the way nobody compare it to the famous project ember ?
I've got one ... so taking a Elemental Watson could be a money wasting, no ?

I have no experience with the project ember so I can't help you there. 
 
When I say 'bright', I mean that in a very subtle way. I'm comparing it to other dac/amps I have such as iDSD micro/nano which both sound neutral and extremely resolving to my ears. Another is the NuPrime uDSD which slants slightly 'warm' to me, having less bite and attack compared to the XD 5 or iDSD. The iDSD micro is far superior to both in my opinion and has great functionality. 
 
Furthermore, pairing the JVC FX1200 (fairly warm sound) with the XD 5 is brings out the mid and higher frequencies out of the woodies, making them a great pairing in my experience. 
 
This is a bit of topic, but I wanted to elaborate a little. 
 
@gug42 How would you character the project ember? Perhaps I can help with making comments on my experience so far with the watson.

 

[circlecrystal]

Sorry for not replying sooner @circlecrystal
, I was literally glued to the Watson with my different headphones/earphones for the past few days. 

With every session the amp sounds better and better, really and truly an amazing product for its price. 

I doubt I'll get another dac for now, will wait for the iDSD micro to return.

I'm getting great results from using my Xduoo XD 5 @gug42
 as a dac via line out. In my opinion its a relatively 'bright' sounding dac/amp and paring it with the Watson seems to 'neutralize' it, adding resolution too. 

@circlecrystal
  When you turn the knobs, is the amp powered on or off? Also are you using a short screwdriver or taking the top part of the unit off?

I didn't turn the amp off when turning the knobs, it's totally fine turning the knob while listening to the amp. And yes I was using a short screwdriver to turn the knob.

 

[circlecrystal]

Thx for your return about xduoo xd05.  By the way first time someone says "brigh", neutral at least (without changing the aop).

By the way nobody compare it to the famous project ember ?
I've got one ... so taking a Elemental Watson could be a money wasting, no ?

Couple things I have noticed between Watson and Ember II:

1) Watson is a duo-mono designed amp, which provides much better channel separation than Project Ember II. So theoretically, Watson has larger soundstage, better instruments separation than Ember II.

The benefit of a solo-stereo design, when compared to a duo-mono design, is that one didn't need to worry about adding circuit components to eliminate the channel imbalance automatically, which Watson did.

2) Watson is a Class-A design amp, which means cleaner background, smoother listening experience over longer listening session, better instruments separation, smoother tremble response, and larger soundstage.

Emeber II is not a Class-A design amp (which means, it can be either a Class-B, Class-D, or etc. design). Espite the performance cannot match the Class-A, the benefit is, its design is easier, and overall components cost is much lower. So its price tag can be much lower than Watson (theoretically), and being priced into a more competetive price range (much less than Watson's price).

---

With all the above said, I hadn't listened to Ember II myself before, so I cannot compare how these two sounds directly. So what here I did, is to share some knowledge based on their design difference. But I think Watson will sound much better than Project Ember II, not only for its much more advanced and better performance duo-mono + class-A design, but also for its other advantages which I haven't noticed yet.

 

[Krisna13]

I didn't turn the amp off when turning the knobs, it's totally fine turning the knob while listening to the amp. And yes I was using a short screwdriver to turn the knob.

Great, thank you. I look forward to trying it later . 

 

[daerron]

Couple things I have noticed between Watson and Ember II:

1) Watson is a duo-mono designed amp, which provides much better channel separation than Project Ember II. So theoretically, Watson has larger soundstage, better instruments separation than Ember II.

The benefit of a solo-stereo design, when compared to a duo-mono design, is that one didn't need to worry about adding circuit components to eliminate the channel imbalance automatically, which Watson did.

2) Watson is a Class-A design amp, which means cleaner background, smoother listening experience over longer listening session, better instruments separation, smoother tremble response, and larger soundstage.

Emeber II is not a Class-A design amp (which means, it can be either a Class-B, Class-D, or etc. design). Espite the performance cannot match the Class-A, the benefit is, its design is easier, and overall components cost is much lower. So its price tag can be much lower than Watson (theoretically), and being priced into a more competetive price range (much less than Watson's price).

---

With all the above said, I hadn't listened to Ember II myself before, so I cannot compare how these two sounds directly. So what here I did, is to share some knowledge based on their design difference. But I think Watson will sound much better than Project Ember II, not only for its much more advanced and better performance duo-mono + class-A design, but also for its other advantages which I haven't noticed yet.

 
Not quite as simple as that. Project Ember is Class AB, but amplification architecture seldom has as much to do with the sound compared to the implementation thereof. In addition the Ember will likely run much cooler than the Class A Watson which may a plus or a minus for some. The Project Ember also has a huge advantage being able to roll a significant variety of valves and accommodating various adapters, vs the limited selection with the Watson. The Watson has the advantage of using very low cost ones, but you do require a pair of them vs a single for the Ember. The Ember also auto bias the valve and is therefore so to speak plug and play. I haven't been able to figure out how Watson biases the valves or whether it requires bias adjustments over the life of the valve.
 
It is really kind of hard to judge when one has not heard both of them, so I won't do either of them a disservice by passing judgement on them simply through inadequate knowledge and experience. Curiosity might get the better of me, I have a Project Ember on the way, but might also get the Watson at some stage, then I'd be better able to pass judgement on the performance comparatively.

 

[circlecrystal]

Not quite as simple as that. Project Ember is Class AB, but amplification architecture seldom has as much to do with the sound compared to the implementation thereof. In addition the Ember will likely run much cooler than the Class A Watson which may a plus or a minus for some. The Project Ember also has a huge advantage being able to roll a significant variety of valves and accommodating various adapters, vs the limited selection with the Watson. The Watson has the advantage of using very low cost ones, but you do require a pair of them vs a single for the Ember. The Ember also auto bias the valve and is therefore so to speak plug and play. I haven't been able to figure out how Watson biases the valves or whether it requires bias adjustments over the life of the valve.

It is really kind of hard to judge when one has not heard both of them, so I won't do either of them a disservice by passing judgement on them simply through inadequate knowledge and experience. Curiosity might get the better of me, I have a Project Ember on the way, but might also get the Watson at some stage, then I'd be better able to pass judgement on the performance comparatively.

Not really.

1) Amp architecture type does affect sound quite much and plays a vital part regarding thhe sound performance --- otherwise most of the state-of-the-art and well established products won't be so keen on emphasizing their choices on Class A over other types.

Even though circuitry is a complex, including components choosing also affects the sound to their extents, architecture does play quite a big role in terms of sound performance.

2) Class A vs. Class AB:

Class "A"

Advantages:
- The tube is ready to amplify the signal at all times.
- The signal is instantaneously amplified because the tube does not have to "wake up: from a less than full operational state.
- A 30 watt Class "A" amp will sound louder than a 30 watt Class "AB" amp.
- Because current is maximum at all times, the amp will have a smooth compression.
- There is not a lot of headroom because of the lower plate voltages used in Class "A" amps.
- Instantaneous amplification and smooth compression make for an amp that is responsive to the touch: the amp feels good and playing it is a satisfying experience.

Disadvantages:
- Maximum current at all times means that the tubes are being strained even without playing.
- Shorter tube life.
- Lower power rating than a Class "AB" amp with the same tube configuration.
- Power transformer needs to be upgraded in order to handle the high current demands.


Class "AB"

Advantages:
- Longer tube life because the tubes are "idling" with lower Plate Current.
- Higher power ratings with the same tube configuration.
- More headroom.
- Tighter bass response.
- Less continuous demand on the power transformer.

Disadvantages: - Not as "responsive" as a Class "A" amp.

3) Watson Elemental runs very cool. The four aluminum heat sinks help reducing the tube temperature to very low, which helps improves the longevity of this amp a lot. Besides, tubes sound best when they are working slightly above the desired temperature, so it should work cooler than their sweet spot temperature.

4) Watson uses EF95 family of tubes, which have a very large pool of affordable tubes for rolling. One can easily check Little Dot's tube rolling guide to find the info they need, as a startup guide for EF95 tube rolling:
http://www.head-fi.org/t/563884/little-dot-tube-amps-vacuum-tube-rolling-guide

 

[daerron]

@circlecrystal, if you want to copy and paste information from the internet at least do it in a form that is relevant to the two products under discussion. Your response clearly indicate that your knowledge about electronics is very limited, I would suggest looking at some DIY and other electronics pages to sharpen up your understanding of the subject before trying to comment on amplifier technicalities and topology. There is so much misinformation contained in your post that I'm not even sure where to start... Unfortunately it detracts a lot from the thread in being able to gather solid and good data about the Watson.

 

[RedBull]

I don't care so much about amp design, heck Class A/B Leben CS-300XS sounds so damn nice 

 

[circlecrystal]

@circlecrystal, if you want to copy and paste information from the internet at least do it in a form that is relevant to the two products under discussion. Your response clearly indicate that your knowledge about electronics is very limited, I would suggest looking at some DIY and other electronics pages to sharpen up your understanding of the subject before trying to comment on amplifier technicalities and topology. There is so much misinformation contained in your post that I'm not even sure where to start... Unfortunately it detracts a lot from the thread in being able to gather solid and good data about the Watson.

First of all, I do aprreciate you providing those suggestions. As I'm just a head-fi hobbiest like others here, which means I'm no where as nearly informed as experts in electronics, I quite agree you said that "I should sharpen my knowledge". So surely something I said can be wrong or mistakes.

But even from the point of a hobbiest, I would say I cannot quite agree with some points you mentioned before, such as "amp architecture doesn't affect sound much".

The sound difference between different amp classes is something not only I said, as I was repeatedly told it is true by different people and from different places.

And the comparions between class a and a/b is from https://www.thegearpage.net/board/index.php?threads/what-are-benefits-of-class-a-amps.390631/, where people discussed about the difference between class a and class a/b, which I quite agree with. As I feel they did make some points in the discussion, especially in terms of "does amp architecture make difference in sound", I chose to put them there. So it's merely just an answer to something you mentioned before as

...but amplification architecture seldom has as much to do with the sound compared to the implementation thereof

Surely if you feel different, you are very welcome to give your own opinions here. But please don't just say something like "there is so many mistakes that you don't even know where to start". As it won't be any helpful to the topic being discussed here.

Nevertheless, I'm actually still quite wondering why would you say Ember will likely run much cooler than Watson at the very first place, without even comparing them yourself.

In addition the Ember will likely run much cooler than the Class A Watson which may a plus or a minus for some.

I went to one of my local store and borrowed one Ember II amp, and listened to it for several minutes. To me Ember II sounds less 3-D than Watson on HD800, HE400i to my ear. However the under very low volume, Ember II does feel more balanced in left/right channel. Further impression inputs requires extended listening, which I didn't have enough time to so so far.

But as I noticed, the tube temperature of Watson is no where hotter than Ember II. Actually Ember II is slightly hotter to my hands. And the heat sink of Watson does feel quite warm, which I think only means these heat sinks are working well to reduce the tube temperature of Watson.

Lastly, as I said before, Watson has a very large tube family of EF95 for tube rolling. And I also shared the link for the startup tube rolling guide, to help people not knowing the topic understanding what EF95 tubes they can go for. That's why I cannot quite agree with what you said before, as

The Project Ember also has a huge advantage being able to roll a significant variety of valves and accommodating various adapters, vs the limited selection with the Watson.

EF95 is apparently a large family, so calling it "the limited selection with the Watson" is unfair, right?

As you keep saying "there is so much misinformation" here or there, then asking me to "sharpen up my knowledge" without giving details, and even though all those you said were distracting from the topics, you still called me out for derailing from the topic, when I tried to tell you the sound difference between different architectures.

As you mentioned before, you have owned Ember amp but not Watson yet, so I can understand your defending for Ember. However I would also like to ask you to be objective when saying something that will cause confusion, such as those I mentioned above.

Let's keep those comparison as objective as possible, and also try to focus on the very topics we are discussing.

The topics are:
1) How does Watson sound to our ears, when compared with Ember II?
2) Design-wise, what's the merites/cons of Watson's Class A to Ember's Class A/B that we know?


---
UPDATED:

And I have already given my answers to the topic questions in posts above actually:

1) I went to one of my local store and borrowed one Ember II amp, and listened to it for several minutes. To me Ember II sounds less 3-D than Watson on HD800, HE400i to my ear. However the under very low volume, Ember II does feel more balanced in left/right channel. Further impression inputs requires extended listening, which I didn't have enough time to so so far.

2) I was told by some different people and from some different places, Class A amps, when compared with other types of amps, have darker background, which can improve a lot to instruments separation, soundstage, deeper bass and tremble smoothness.

As you also mentioned adding external power supply above, and even saying Ember II can easily find one while Watson cannot...
1) I cannot hear noticeable difference by switching Watson's Switching PSU to a customized linear PSU (28v).
2) I cannot hear noticeable difference by adding AC filter to the chain.

That's to say, I don't think upgrading the power supply is neccessary, for Watson. But this may not hold true for Ember II, as I very much understand the difference between different amps.