ElectroStatic, Stax vs. Koss, which one to get?

[AudioCats]

Hello, I am looking into eletrostatic phone now, mainly the ones under $200.
I have seen Koss ESP-9 with transformer box for around $100-$120 on ebay, in pretty good shape. Then I saw some Stax for $150-$200 (have no idea how high/low end they are).

So my questions are
*for under $150, should I go Koss or should I go Stax? how about $250?
*Is the Koss ESP-9 system comparable to the mid-level Stax? which brand is a better deal?
*Which Stax model to get for this budget (under $150, under $250)? or should I just save up for the SR-x III or maybe Lambda Pro and call it good?

I don't plan to be a collector, just looking to get a set of good sounding eletrostatic for vocals (heard they have great mids)

Thanks for all/any inputs

 

[Carl]

The ESP9 isn't worth $150. For around that price bracket a low-bias Stax SRXmk3/SR5N/Gamma/Lambda is probably the best you'll get.

 

[spritzer]

I agree with Carl. The ESP9 isn't bad but paying more then 100$ for it would be nuts. They are very uncomfortable compared to Stax from the same era and if they break down they are tough to fix.

The Stax SR-3 and SR-5 are very good phones but they suffer from small drivers and bad construction. I wouldn't pay more then 100$ for a set unless it is almost in NOS condition. The SR-X is a great headphone and if you can get it under 150$ go for it but the price has been rising lately. The original low bias SR-Lambda is one of my favorite phones and you can find it for under 200$ with an adapter if you are lucky. They are by far the most comfortable of the lot, have great bass and midrange and while the top end is extended and full they can be a bit bright and etched but it's nothing to worry about.

 

[AudioCats]

Thanks Carl!

Thanks Spritzer

I guess I will shoot for the Stax then....So what is the difference between the pro and non-pro? which one is better and for what reason?

The cheapest SR-X MK3 set I have seen were already around $250

Will any non-pro transformer box work with any non-pro phones? or certain model phones have to use certain box? which box is better/worse?

Will SR-X or Lambda compete with the mid-level modern phones like HD595? (this is probably a stupid question but I have no idea, just have to ask)

Thanks

 

[spritzer]

The normal phones used a lower bias voltage and thicker diaphragms then the Pro models. Real world difference is down to preference, the Pro phones have better detail in the lower bass, can play a bit louder (you will never have to use the extra volume unless you want to be deaf) and some other refinements over the normals. They are a clear step forward but the normal units still have their merits. They are more musical then the newer brothers and have this certain wholeness to the sound that I like a lot. These differences are small and you shouldn't focus to much on them because there is much more difference between the models regardless of bias voltage.

You can plug a Pro headphone (5 pin jack) into any jack on any adapter (not the SRD-4 because it doesn't have any bias supply) or amp. They run fine from a normal output and it will not damage them but the sound is softer. The normal phones (6 pin jack) can only be used from normal plugs in both adapters and amps. The center pin prevents you from plugging into the higher voltage Pro sockets.

The best adapters are the SRD-7 line but the SRD-6 is basically the same internally but they have only one normal plug. I just got a SRD-5 but I haven't tested it yet.

Most vintage Stax phones eat these puny Sennheisers for dinner.

They are much better then most dynamic phones...

 

[AudioCats]

WOW, better than most Senn's?! Now you really got me excited

Other than the Lambda and SR-X, is there other models worth tracking down? I have seen other offering like SR-40 w/ SRD4 box, SR-303, etc......

By the way, how good/bad is the Koss ESP-950 (the one still in production)?

 

[spritzer]

I have a HD-600 w/Cardas "Smurf" cable driven from a Corda Aria and it is only used for computer games and the occasional FLAC file.

The SR-30, 40, 50, 60 and 80 are all elecrets (they have a film that is polarized so no bias supply) and if you get them cheap, under 50$ or so, go for it but they aren't worth much more. The SR-303 is part of the current lineup and is the latest revision of the SR-Lambda Signature. Stax has made quite a few models over the years so if you find some for sale consult the two huge Stax threads or the Stax article at Wikipedia.

I'll let Carl answer the ESP-950 question because they are one of the few stats' I've never heard.

 

[AudioCats]

wow, I guess I should just skip the Senn's and jump directly to the Lambda's.....

just curious, is it possible to mod a pro box for non-pro phones?

how much lower is the non-pro's bias voltage? what else is different other than the pin pattern and bias voltage?

 

[spritzer]

Quote:

Originally Posted by AudioCats /img/forum/go_quote.gif wow, I guess I should just skip the Senn's and jump directly to the Lambda's..... just curious, is it possible to mod a pro box for non-pro phones? how much lower is the non-pro's bias voltage? what else is different other than the pin pattern and bias voltage?

You should try the Senn's and see if you like them. Stanger things have happened...

It's easy to install a new bias supply if you have a pretty good understanding of how to work with high voltages. The normal bias started out as 200v but was later changed to 230v. The Pro is 580v both DC+. When they first introduced the pro bias the Lambda pro was identical to the normal bias version, other then inside the driver, but other phones are very different. The Sigma's for instance are very different.

 

[krmathis]

spritzer and Carl have pretty much answered all your questions.
But I want to add my vote for the SR-Lambda (Pro) and SR-X/MK3 phones as well. Of those I would definitely go for the Lambda, which imo have better sound and a lot better comfort.

You should be able to score a Lambda (maybe a even a Pro) for $2-300. Maybe even with an energizer.

 

[mirumu]

Quote:

Originally Posted by AudioCats /img/forum/go_quote.gif WOW, better than most Senn's?! Now you really got me excited

There's an amount of personal taste involved but personally I do much prefer my SR-X Mk3 to my HD595s.

 

[AudioCats]

thanks guys, so I decided (not a hard decision by the way) I MUST sell the Senn 555 to help fund for a pair of Lambda..... The non-pro Lambda can be have for under $250 I hope ?

I suppose the SR-x was the flag ship of the old old days, and Lambda pro was the flag ship of the old days, then how do they compare to the current production Stax? I have seem some current production models are around $500 (phone only), while the Lambda pro vintage is $400. Is it worthy to buy vintage and then go through the trouble of restoration?

Still, how good is the Koss ESP950, which stax model is it comparable to?

Thanks!

 

[spritzer]

The SR-X was a professional model monitoring and such. The Lambda was the high end audiophile headphone and both lines continued in production up till 1990 or so. The 4070 is the current monitoring headphone.

There isn't really a question whether the newer phones are "better" or more that they are different. Stax has always moved towards more neutrality over the years and not everybody likes that so the older models are still popular. They are all very good and when you reach this level of performance it is more a matter of preference.

You don't have to restore these vintage phones because they are almost always in beautiful condition. Change the earpads for some 30$ and they are like new. If they break down they can only be fixed by installing drivers from the current production models and that isn't cheap. It's a bit of a risk to buy vintage but you can always buy the SR-202 or SR-003 phones and an adapter off ebay. Both will come with full warranty from Stax because they are new and they cost 280$ and 150$ respectively. Go check out http://www.audiocubes2.com

I have two normal bias SR-Lambdas and got one of them with an adapter for 160$ and the other one was in slightly rougher condition I got for 100$ without an adapter.

The Koss could be compared to the newest Lambda line but only if you hook them up to a Stax amp. The amp that is included is pretty crappy.

 

[Tachikoma]

The 1980~ vintage models will rarely ever need any major restoration.

I recommend the SR-5NB, which are at least comparable to the SR-X mk3s but go for somewhat less on ebay, and are fairly common. They are also much younger than the SR-Xmk3s in general (and probably more reliable, of the 4 SR-X mk3s that have been purchased between 3 certain members including me, 3 were faulty.), since they were produced right up to the day old stax collapsed in 1995. Also has a great midrange

If you want to get a new phone, the SR-303 can be gotten for less than $250 new from japan - that is sans shipping and taxes. You might be able to get a used pair cheap from yahoo japan auctions (they don't seem to appear very often though), but you will need to bid through a deputy service like rinkya.