[bazelio]

 

I would take ZDS or BA over Studio if my primary headphones were Utopia.

Having read your very insightful findings on your DAC/amp/headphone shootout, and having said that the ZU is the 3rd best setup, w/ the SU as the 2nd best, you've ever heard, I'm very curious to know why this is for you? Has your opinion/preference changed since?

 
Songmic has a great shootout write up at the other place.  Personal preferences are going to vary, though.  I'd take the ZDS/Utopia combo over the Studio/650 combo myself... having heard both.

 

[Mist3rLao]

bazelio yeah, it's a superb piece. Kudos to songmic! Have you ever heard the Utopia off the Studio or Stellaris? If so, how different are they from the Zana?

 

[bazelio]

I've heard 650 off the Stellaris, but I didn't bring Utopias for a listen.  650+Stellaris was fantastic.  For me, a clear winner vs Studio+650.
 
My guess, and it's just a guess, is that Utopia+Stellaris is probably going to be great - for my tastes.  The Stellaris is, based on very short listen, the best headphone amp I've ever heard.  A big part of that, maybe a huge part, is the Audio Note OPTs.  Of course I would need more time to finalize my opinion, but I love it.  It has a bit of sweetness/euphoria.  Less than the smaller DNA amps.  So think this is just want I'd want with Utopias, which have an ever so slight treble peak.

 

[Mist3rLao]

bazelio Considering perceived changes are more prominent between headphones than between amplifiers, how significant of a jump up is the Stellaris for you, over the Zana? I know that both the Studio/Stellaris are beyond the reach of the Zana in terms of technicalities, but do you think it's possible that it could be also just be a matter of the Stellaris being more inline with your sound preference than the Zana? And that, if your sound preference were more inline with the Zana, you'd prefer it over the Stellaris despite lagging behind in the technicalities.

 

[bazelio]

@bazelio Considering perceived changes are more prominent between headphones than between amplifiers, how significant of a jump up is the Stellaris for you, over the Zana? I know that both the Studio/Stellaris are beyond the reach of the Zana in terms of technicalities, do you think it's possible that it could be a matter of the Stellaris being more inline with your sound preference than the Zana?

 
 
I don't know if I agree with your premise, actually.  But...
 
If you take price out of the equation, then I consider Stellaris a notable jump from ZDS.  Price is a huge part of the equation, though.  And for that reason, it's unlikely that I'll ever own a Stellaris.  Or for that matter any TOTL dedicated headphone amp that can't also perform duties in other rigs, such as a preamp in speaker rigs, or as speaker amp outright.  The ZDS does have a preamp function, but its voicing for headphones may tend to make it less optimal as pre in a speaker rig....  YMMV.

 

[Mist3rLao]

bazelio thank you very much for chiming in. Your thoughts are insightful, as always, and is highly appreciated.

 

[songmic]

@bazelio yeah, it's a superb piece. Kudos to @songmic! Have you ever heard the Utopia off the Studio or Stellaris? If so, how different are they from the Zana?

 
Sadly, I have not heard the Stellaris yet. I envy everyone who has got a chance to listen to it (@bazelio included). For a long time, my dream amp had been either Studio ($7K without 2A3 tubes) or Stellaris ($6.7K, or $8.9K with balanced inputs). I got lucky and jumped at an opportunity to pick up a used Studio at a decent price, but that hasn't stopped me from wondering how Stellaris would sound.
 
Based on people who have heard both Studio and Stellaris, both are end-game level amps with the highest level of technicalities. But if one had to compare, the Studio seems to edge out the Stellaris in technicalities (i.e. transparency, neutrality, soundstage, etc.), plus the ability to drive speakers equally as well. However, the Stellaris has the same DNA of its predecessor Stratus, meaning it has a slightly warm, lush sound (though not as much as Stratus). Tonality is a very important factor for me too, and I understand many people would take Stellaris over Studio based on their sonic preferences.
 
I only got to listen to Stratus a couple times but it is one of my most favorite amps. In fact, I was one of those who was waiting in line for a Stratus, until I landed on the Studio deal and cancelled the Stratus immediately. Stratus would surely be a much better amp for HD800 than Studio is, at least for me. I can only imagine how godly Stellaris/HD800 or Stellaris/Utopia would sound. 
 
I think @bazelio 's preference leans toward a warmer signature than mine. My sweet spot is very slightly warm and lush from being dead neutral. I'm the guy who finds the ZDS/HD650 a bit too warm and ZDS/HD800 a tad too bright, so you can tell how picky I am. I consider ZDS/Utopia is warm, but still perfectly acceptable. That's why I think it might be better for me than Stratus/Utopia or BA/Utopia, as the latter two may turn out to be too warm. The Studio/HD650(modded) lands exactly on that sweet spot of mine, which is why I prefer it slightly to ZDS/Utopia. The ZDS/Utopia is slightly more transparent than Studio/HD650, both resolve equally and tremendously well, while the Studio/HD650 has a bit more expansive soundstage and headroom. Hopefully you get the idea.
 
Studio/Utopia is a tough one. It's not bad, I know a few who enjoy this combo, but for me it's a bit too bright. Nowhere as bright as Studio/HD800(which I find unacceptable, but surprisingly many people--especially trebleheads--seem to enjoy this as well), but I couldn't enjoy listening to it with every music in my collection, whereas the HD650 played everything so smoothly and effortlessly without any inducing any fatigue for hours and hours. At the end of the day, technicalities ain't everything.
 
The following is a short list of my preferential amps for each headphone. I have heard the Stratus with both HD650 and HD800 but did not get to listen to the Utopia with it.
 
HD650: Studio >> ZDS >= Jotunheim > BW
HD800: (probably Stellaris) > (probably BA) >= Stratus > ZDS >= BW
Utopia: ZDS > (probably BA and Stratus)

 

[bazelio]

I wouldn't say I prefer a warm signature. I prefer neutral to slightly sweet. Slightly sweet in the "emotional engagement" sense. But my T3 is dead nuts neutral to slightly sweet depending on tube, and that's how I built it - with metal foils and Rike caps. And the Stellaris does not sound like the Stratus, which I do not like BTW. The Stratus wasn't slightly sweet - more like chocolate syrup! The BW2, (for reference) is also too bloomy and warm for my liking. I also don't think the Studio edges out the Stellaris in technicalities if you go with the AN OPT silver windings option in the Stellaris. Keep in mind, there are more than two price points for the Stellaris. I'd hesitate to categorize or rate amp, headphone pairings for amps you've not heard.

Overall, I would say this: The Stellaris quite simply sounded more natural than the Studio to me. In a few ways... One, the Studio is somewhat lean. Even with 650s. Maybe there are tubes for the Studio that will correct this, but I don't know what they are or what other tonal tradeoffs would be encountered. I do know this Studio niggle is not just me (others agree), and I think this is an area EC is going to address in the Studio Jr. And it plays in heavily to my preference for ZDS + Utopias over Studio + 650s. That probably says a lot, too, considering the slightly depressed mid bass of Utopias. Secondly, and this is harder to describe, the Studio has a slight solid state clinical sound... and I do mean slight. Not overly so. I felt it to be very detailed but tending unnatural. I do value resolving gear, but something about how the Studio did it just didn't quite please my ears. Third, is related to soundstage. Also difficult to describe. But there's a holographic soundstage in which most of the time people are referring to a 3D rendering of the total stage. The boundaries of instrument placement front to back, left to right. And there, I don't recall any advantage between Studio and Stellaris. Maybe there was, but it didn't stand out to me. However, where Stellaris was better was in its 3d rendering of the individual instruments themselves. Most amps, even those with a large 3d stage, still render the individual constituents flat. Not the Stellaris. And I'd never heard a headphone amp do this as well as it did.

Let me add an addendum now. These two are both top quality amps. All decked out, the Stellaris is going to exceed the Studio in price by a couple thousand dollars, too. And because these are true TOTL amps, they should be subjected to critique right down to the level of nitpicking. I don't dislike either amp. But I do prefer one over the other. The big meet in LA was many weeks ago, now. I still have that Stellaris sound in my head. Memories of mostly everything else, save for a great analog speaker rig, have faded. But that Stellaris sound signature remains. Its overall tonality, body, and character are not easy to obtain. Actually that's an understatement. I'd really never heard it all come together quite like it did with the Stellaris. And that left an impression on me.

 

[Mist3rLao]

The extent to which you could dissect and articulate what you hear is astounding! :raised_hands_tone2: And, that's putting it lightly! lol

 

[AnakChan]

 
Another use for my Zana Deux....defrosting butter...

 

[deuter]

Another use for my Zana Deux....defrosting butter...

What's with tagging the tubes.

 

[PoochZag]

Can anybody comment on how the ZDS does compared to Mjolnir 2?  
 
I'm particularly interested in bass levels/impact, treble smoothness, and overall sense of staging either in general or in relation to a modded HD800.
 
Edit:  Additionally, is this a good amp for shorter, 1 hour or less, listening sessions?  Or does it take so long to warm up and get going it's not worth it?

 

[traehekat]

Very close to pulling the trigger on the ZDS. I see there is an option for upgrades/modifications. What are some common upgrades/modifications, if any, that people have gone with? 
 
Thanks!

 

[Afghan Vet]

  Very close to pulling the trigger on the ZDS. I see there is an option for upgrades/modifications. What are some common upgrades/modifications, if any, that people have gone with? 
 
Thanks!

 
I believe you will be very happy with that decision! I only chose one - and that was aesthetic - all black option.....which I'm very happy I spent the extra on that.

 

[AppleheadMay]

  Very close to pulling the trigger on the ZDS. I see there is an option for upgrades/modifications. What are some common upgrades/modifications, if any, that people have gone with? 
 
Thanks!

 
 
There aren't much options.
1) all black instead of silver top and bottom
2) P&G pot, much nicer than stock.
3) no tube upgrades, you get the standard ones. For power  it doesn't matter as there is nothing else. For rectifier same thing, well there is the EY500A but it doesn't make a difference. For the driver you get the stock Tung Sol which is worthless. Buy yourself some RCA 5691, Mullard ECC35, Brimar CV 1985, Sophia Electric Premium 6SL7 and/or Tung-Sol 6SU7GTY.
4) my first Zana was balanced but that was the only one ever produced. I don't think Craig is gonna do that again and it would cost a fair bit more.