[dano1122]

as the topic says. it's mainly for my notebook for listening to music in the library while doing research. my notebook has an spdif out if that helps. i need a setup starting from scratch. hopefully something not so insane like ultimate ears 10 pro and a big duck portable dac? thanks for ANY help in this.

 

[dmoffitt]

ety er6 / 6i ? er4p?

er4s + sr71

i was very against canal phones and now i'm a convert....

oh and re: dac / spdif etc - you are almost better off buying an iPod mini and a PocketDock than trying to find a GOOD portable DAC. imo the power supply of a DAC is sooooo crucially important, you need something with a huge fat toroid and chokes etc, and that means AC, big, heavy, etc...

 

[Zoide]

Sharp MD-33S. Good sound, isolation, and price. Oh, and very very comfortable.

 

[grasshpr]

If you want, skip the dac and get an echo indigo + a good headphone. Its a cheaper alternative to having good sound.

 

[cary]

i'll echo the indigo suggestion. (pun intended). the onboard dac will make you quite happy, matched with a high end pair of portables; my preference for in-ear's being um2's or e4p's; for over-the-ear's i like sennheiser hd25-1's and audiotechnica ath-a900's.

2cents,
cary

 

[bLue_oNioN]

If your setup is truly starting from scratch, I would recommend an Echo Indigo and canalphone of your choice. The Echo Indigo is, as previous forum members have mentioned, a very pleasing piece of equipment to own. Canalphones would IMHO be preferable to open-ended earbuds because (1) as small as they are, they can be quite disturbing at times to those around you and (2) it seems you would have a wider variety of Head-fi "certified" choices.

 

[catscratch]

Canalphones are definitely the way to go, but the notebook isn't good enough of a source IMO. Of course, that will depend on what audio is in it, but a PCDP or mp3 player will still be better. I'd say a 20 gig iPod using wav lossless, or Rio Karma using flacs (I think the Karma can play them) will be your best bet as a source, as will a good PCDP if CD is your most commonly used format.

As far as the phones go, The Etymotic Research ER-4P or 4S with an amp are good choices, Westone UM2 is another, and Stax SR-001 Mk II could be your best bet. The Stax don't isolate, which you really don't need as a library is a quiet enough place already, and they give you by far the best sound quality for the buck in the realm of canalphones. They don't leak a whole lot of sound, and they won't disturb anyone unless they're a foot or so away from your ears. Lastly, the Stax system comes with an amp already, so you won't need to buy that particular piece of equipment, which can easily be the most costly component of the setup. You will, however, need to buy an interconnect between the Stax amp and your source, which won't be very expensive, but should be of high quality, as the 001 is a very demanding system. An AC adapter, and a step-down transformer for Japanese voltage systems is also a good option, as in a library AC power should be easy to come by. With all these add-ons, a good source and IC, the 001 will be a mighty fine sounding system.

If you want an inexpensive but good setup, you can either get canalphones like Etymotic Research ER-6/ER-6i, Shure e3c, and Future Sonics IE3, or you can use Koss KSC-35/75 clip-ons and a small, portable amp, like a cheap CMOY or something of that nature. These cheap little Koss phones sound downright fantastic when amped.

There are a lot of choices. Here are my recommendations, in summary:

Best sound quality: PCDP/good mp3 + good IC + Stax SR-001 Mk II ($400-700).
Best portability: iPod Mini/Zen Micro/Rio Karma + Etymotic Research ER-4P/Westone UM2/Shure e5c ($500-650).
Good budget setup: PCDP + cheap CMOY/small portable amp + Koss KSC-35/75, or mp3/PCDP + Ety ER-6i/Shure e3c/FS IE3 ($220-300).

You could, I suppose, go with a good canalphone and a serious portable amp, like the SR-71, but the Stax 001 will give you better sound quality at a lower price, and unless you really need the isolation, it's not really worth it IMO.

 

[grasshpr]

Quote:

Originally Posted by catscratch Canalphones are definitely the way to go, but the notebook isn't good enough of a source IMO. Of course, that will depend on what audio is in it, but a PCDP or mp3 player will still be better.

I'm not sure what your trying to say here. A notebook can be as good of a source as an mp3 player, that is, if you couple the notebook with a good sound card. And of course, a notebook sound card like the echo indigo does have a headphone amp whereas most mp3 players don't.

Quote:

Originally Posted by catscratch I'd say a 20 gig iPod using wav lossless, or Rio Karma using flacs (I think the Karma can play them) will be your best bet as a source, as will a good PCDP if CD is your most commonly used format.

I don't know why you consider iPOD to be better compared with a notebook here. A notebook can easily hold 80-100 gigs of wav lossless compared with what, 20 gigs from an iPOD? Don't forget, notebooks can also play any digital CD's.

Now if your talking about physical size and ease of use, then of course you would be right, but then that wasn't your initial argument...

 

[dmoffitt]

comparing the dac and output stage of my powerbook to my ipod tells me right away why a notebook (sans good soundcard) is NOT a good source

 

[catscratch]

Quote:

Originally Posted by grasshpr I'm not sure what your trying to say here. A notebook can be as good of a source as an mp3 player, that is, if you couple the notebook with a good sound card. And of course, a notebook sound card like the echo indigo does have a headphone amp whereas most mp3 players don't. I don't know why you consider iPOD to be better compared with a notebook here. A notebook can easily hold 80-100 gigs of wav lossless compared with what, 20 gigs from an iPOD? Don't forget, notebooks can also play any digital CD's. Now if your talking about physical size and ease of use, then of course you would be right, but then that wasn't your initial argument...

Notebooks aren't modular. You will most likely be stuck with sub-par onboard audio, and if you're going to be using a bulky outboard sound card, then why not get an mp3 player instead, which will also double as a portable system, whereas a notebook definitely will not? Also, the CD playback out of most notebooks will be very subpar, even if you do pair it with a good external sound card.

The only inconvenience you will have is tranferring files between a notebook and your mp3 player, which I think you can live with.

 

[grasshpr]

Your right, the builtin sound card on any notebook is usually very bad. However, coupled with a "good' soundcard, it is as good as any mp3 player. That and of course, you can choose any USB sound device to supply you music.

All I'm saying is that notebooks are much more capable of being a music source as any mp3 player given that you have a good sound card.

 

[grasshpr]

Quote:

Originally Posted by catscratch Notebooks aren't modular.

Notebooks can be used for ANY computing purpose you desire. If that's not being modular, I don't know what you mean. Now if you mean that notebooks do not greatly excel at a particular area of interest, then yes, you are right. However, compared with mp3 (which are just even smaller computers with a decent dac), they are on par if not better.

Quote:

Originally Posted by catscratch You will most likely be stuck with sub-par onboard audio, and if you're going to be using a bulky outboard sound card, then why not get an mp3 player instead, which will also double as a portable system, whereas a notebook definitely will not?

Yes, you are right, mp3 players are very small and more portable as a notebook in terms of weight. However, that doesn't mean that a laptop is not portable. In fact that's the purpose of having a laptop, PORTABILITY! E.g., if your working on a project on a notebook, why do you care to take out an mp3 player for music when you have a decent one right in front of you?

Quote:

Originally Posted by catscratch Also, the CD playback out of most notebooks will be very subpar, even if you do pair it with a good external sound card.

I agree that an external sound card may not be as good in sound quality as a good CD player. However, I had mentioned before that you should be playing CD's in digital output mode, in which case notebooks can spit out digital music as good as any CD player (which places all the responsibility on the sound card).

 

[catscratch]

I disagree. By "modular," I mean that notebooks don't have internal components that can be easily swapped and traded. You cannot easily replace or upgrade system components as you could on a PC. Notebooks don't fulfill every purpose either. I'm a hardcore gamer; am I going to be playing games on a notebook? No, because the best available notebook graphics cards don't have the horsepower to run games at competitive frame rates. In order to compete, 120 frames per second is considered acceptable, and most modern games will not run at those kinds of speeds on a notebook. Neither are LCD monitors acceptable for fast-paced games, as their refresh rates do not go higher than 75 Hz, where as 120 Hz is what I need.

OK, this is OT, and my example of computer use is a bit extreme, but I just want to show that notebooks aren't usable for everything, as you seem to imply.

Also, by "portable" I mean that with any of the setups that I mentioned, you can walk around on the street, with nothing more than a pocket half-full of electronic gear, and listen to music while being perfectly inconspicuous. Can you do that out of a laptop? It can double as a transportable source, to be sure, but by "portability" I mean a system that can be taken and used anywhere, and a laptop isn't it.

Lastly - we're not talking cheap here. Most of the setups that we recommend are pretty darn expensive, especially when you consider what most people think as "normal" prices for audio. If I would recommend a setup, it would be one which will give the user the most possible mileage for the money. Even if a laptop can double as a good source - and I will admit, I don't know of good external soundcards for laptops, so I will not make any claims that laptops can't sound good, except in analog CD playback - it will not be nearly as practical as a system based off an mp3 player. If you're spending half a thousand dollars on something, you'd want it to be an investment that you can enjoy anywhere, and not in just specific circumstances. Hence, I'd vote against a laptop-based system.

As always, this is just my .02 and YMMV.

 

[grasshpr]

Keep in mind catscratch, we are talking about a setup for the originator of this thread (which we seem to have hijacked for our sake). He already has a laptop, and does not plan to use it for the sake of moving around. He plans to do research on a desk and listen to music, and mostlikely will be at school, so he won't be able to bring his PC setup with him.

As for myself, I personally love mp3 players (as I already have a 40gb 3rd gen IPOD), but only for transit purposes, as you may have mentioned. I wouldn't even think of using it for music when I am in the office or at home since I do have much more competent options for those purposes. However, I have been trying to address the needs of the person who started this thread.

And, no, I do not agree with your claim that notebooks are NOT modular. If I want bluetooth or a wireless adapter in my dell, I stick in a miniPCI card in the notebook. If I need a new NIC or sound card, I pop one in my cardbus. If I need a new video card on my notebook, I "can" put a newer model if it is available for my notebook. I can easily put in a new CPU if it is in the available chipset options. I can swap out my cd/dvd player and my hard drive for better options. Am I missing any other upgrade? So yes, I DO believe that notebooks are modular. They are just are alot more expensive than normal PC's and require you to be more knowledgeable when installing them. Hell, I even saw one person from a dell forum swap out an old motherboard with an upgraded one. My point is, a notebook is very powerful, although not as much so as a PC. However, a notebook is portable. Just not in your sense catscratch

 

[TooNice]

Quote:

Originally Posted by catscratch In order to compete, 120 frames per second is considered acceptable, and most modern games will not run at those kinds of speeds on a notebook. Neither are LCD monitors acceptable for fast-paced games, as their refresh rates do not go higher than 75 Hz, where as 120 Hz is what I need. OK, this is OT, and my example of computer use is a bit extreme, but I just want to show that notebooks aren't usable for everything, as you seem to imply.

Actually, thats highly subjective.
I am happy with 80 FPS/80Hz, and I am sure some are happy with less.

More importantly, while I also have a preference for CRT, I have no doubt that there are plenty of world class players who would happily settle with LCD.

Anyway, grasshpr already said that notebooks do not excels at everything, but are *capable* to do pretty much anything.

Notebooks may not be as modular in the sense that you can't tear it up and re-fit it with the latest toys, but it has flexibility that a desktop can't match. Try to bring a prometeia cooled PC to your library...

Edit @ above: I will agree that you can upgrade a lot on a notebook, but motherboard/CPU is, IMO, not that upgradable on the basis that you can't just go out and buy a new motherboard for your laptop easily.
Anyway, as you've said.. Notebooks are meant to do pretty much everything a desktop can do. Not as well when brute force is an absolute must, but not that many tasks requires that level of power anyway (and certainly not for audio playback).