Mar 5, 2024 at 11:13 PM Post #74,236 of 78,607
I would like to thank my newfound friend in here, @jeejack, for helping me make these earbuds. He's been very nice and helpful all throughout.

IMG_20240303_145934.jpg
(Also, I've started making my own cables. So I decided that I'm going to use them for this build.)

This is actually my first time following someone's build, and personally, it got me by surprise, as I didn’t expect them to turn out to be this good. I don't know if I can do them justice through words like others here can. But I will try.

The sub-bass presence can truly be felt, especially with Fiio bass foams or thicker foams. The mid-bass is very prominent, well-textured, and it packs quite a punch.

The mid-range has a warm and full-bodied presentation with impressive tonality and timbre.

The treble is well-extended with well defined clarity and resolution. Tbh I didn't expect this level of detail.

I've been listening to them all the time after making them, and have fallen asleep while wearing them multiple times already because of how immersed I got from listening to them. They're really that good lol.
 
Mar 5, 2024 at 11:26 PM Post #74,237 of 78,607
Some thoughts...

If I rotate 2-4 buds pair from 1-2 times a day to each 1-2 days, then overall music impression difference between buds reduces with time (say, after a couple of week). Probably, it is my fantasy.

What is your experience?
I actually have sort of the opposite experience -- I am enlivened by, and really enjoy, A/B listening with different earbuds to favorite songs or passages. I usually only A/B for a fairly short time -- maybe 10-15 minutes -- so I don't get burned out on it. In fact, I find this exposure to different musical "flavors" very stimulating and satisfying to my brain. I have a theory that this "varied flavor exposure" is one of the major reasons why we Earbud People, or Audio People, are always searching for and buying new flavors for our "habit." It is because the different flavors stimulate our brain in different interesting ways. This may create new neural pathways and the release of different or more neurotransmitters. It is a principle in neuroscience that novelty and new experiences stimulate the brain. Anyone else have thoughts about this?
 
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Mar 5, 2024 at 11:28 PM Post #74,238 of 78,607
I would like to thank my newfound friend in here, @jeejack, for helping me make these earbuds. He's been very nice and helpful all throughout.

IMG_20240303_145934.jpg
(Also, I've started making my own cables. So I decided that I'm going to use them for this build.)

This is actually my first time following someone's build, and personally, it got me by surprise, as I didn’t expect them to turn out to be this good. I don't know if I can do them justice through words like others here can. But I will try.

The sub-bass presence can truly be felt, especially with Fiio bass foams or thicker foams. The mid-bass is very prominent, well-textured, and it packs quite a punch.

The mid-range has a warm and full-bodied presentation with impressive tonality and timbre.

The treble is well-extended with well defined clarity and resolution. Tbh I didn't expect this level of detail.

I've been listening to them all the time after making them, and have fallen asleep while wearing them multiple times already because of how immersed I got from listening to them. They're really that good lol.
Congrats on your new shiny! :)

Not only have you done a bang-up job in creating something that pleases you a lot, but even though short, your words convey the meaning you were intending very well. Or at the very least, it drew a well finished thought in my mind's eye. :)

On top of all of that, they look nice as well. :) Yes, @jeejack has been one of the most friendly and helpful people I have known on this thread (even when I first came here IIRC).
 
Mar 5, 2024 at 11:40 PM Post #74,239 of 78,607
i have used the same app on my samsung and was shocked, that i already lost most upper treble and even more shocking the whole subbass area on my left ear. When i apply the app and listen to music the soundstage opens up one the left side and it sounds straight gorgeus. Than i realized i dont only use my phone as a source and also that listening through this is not what my brain is used to from reality, so i decided to stick with my deficits and call it a day :deadhorse:
I came to the same conclusion: it's not that obvious to me unless I really focus, so I just turn it off whenever I listen. It's a really great tool if you're curious about your hearing health.
Often the people at the booth would look at me weird though. Like "why are you interested in that?"
Even though they're still pretty popular in here, they're still a rare sight to see, so whenever I'm wearing one out, my friends and schoolmates give me the same look lol.
Congrats on your new shiny! :)

Not only have you done a bang-up job in creating something that pleases you a lot, but even though short, your words convey the meaning you were intending very well. Or at the very least, it drew a well finished thought in my mind's eye. :)

On top of all of that, they look nice as well. :) Yes, @jeejack has been one of the most friendly and helpful people I have known on this thread (even when I first came here IIRC).
Thank you! I'm not really used to writing reviews, especially putting sounds into words. I intended it to be short so people wouldn't get lost reading it. I really tried my best to convey what I'm hearing because I really enjoyed listening to them.😅
 
Mar 5, 2024 at 11:42 PM Post #74,240 of 78,607
I actually have sort of the opposite experience -- I am enlivened by, and really enjoy, A/B listening with different earbuds to favorite songs or passages. I find this exposure to different musical "flavors" very stimulating and satisfying to my brain. In fact, I have a theory that this "varied flavor exposure" is one of the major reasons why we Earbud People, or Audio People, are always searching for and buying new flavors for our "habit." It is because the different flavors stimulate our brain in different interesting ways. This may create new neural pathways and the release of different or more neurotransmitters. It is a principle in neuroscience that novelty and new experiences stimulate the brain. Anyone else have thoughts about this?
You have spoken my thoughts as well, but in your words... LOL The only reason I own so many pairs is because they ALL have something different to offer, and it is these differences in their sound that keep me attracted to them. I might be an outlier in the head gear world, but I really like varying in tuning (from subtle to vastly different). While I might have an overall preference that gets more listening time than others, I really love all sorts of different tuning. All of this sounds pretty weird, but if all of my sets sounded alike, I would get rid of them.

It has been my experience that I have the best of the best (for my hearing) for the type of tuning and overall signature that each set possesses, and at such a time where I find one that might sound better but alike one that I already have, I will have to make a tough decision to get rid of a set.

So, to answer your question, my thoughts are that I agree with having a completely different "flavor" does indeed enhance or at the very least, change the experience one has with the same pieces of music. And, I love it! :)
 
Mar 6, 2024 at 12:04 AM Post #74,241 of 78,607
@samandhi (sorry, my reply button is wonky and did not display the previous message!) Thanks for affirming my experience! As I said, I am very interested in *why* we all seem to find it so compelling to have more and different earbuds or other inputs. There is considerable research on effects of music on the brain. I am going to have to look at that a little bit and post a few things.
 
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Mar 6, 2024 at 12:25 AM Post #74,242 of 78,607
Alrighty folks, here are my impressions from three days with the Yincrow RW-4000s. As with any preliminary impressions, they can and often do change somewhat over time, though I have put these through a pretty thorough test-drive so I don't anticipate anything dramatic as far as possible changes in my evaluation. Also, I purchased these with my own money, as always. Disclaimers done, I hope you guys find these useful:

Okay, so last night I posted a teaser saying the RW-4000s (referred to as 4Ks from here on) are not just a revamped RW-3000 (3Ks from here on). What I meant by that, is that Yincrow didn't fall into the obvious temptation of bumping the price for a few minor tweaks and an accessory change. Much like the 3Ks are very much their own beast compared to their predecessors, the 2Ks, the 4Ks have their own identity. In that same teaser I referred to the 3Ks as "comfortably excellent," meaning they provide excellent performance as top tier buds should, but they have a relatively safe and balanced tuning paired with a detailed, but overall pretty relaxed presentation. To me their strong suit is being almost indefinitely listenable without the compromise in technical performance and clarity that you often find in buds that can be described similarly.

The 4Ks, on the other hand, take a more energetic and forward approach that makes you sit up and listen. Their tuning is still quite balanced, but the low end has more impact and energy (without being elevated much more than the 3Ks) and the treble gives you a significantly more incisive presentation with some additional detail and sparkle without being fatiguing or sibilant. If the 2Ks are lush, warm, and a bit veiled like the Sennheiser HD650s and the 3Ks are clearer, less warm timbral masterpieces, then the 4Ks are what Sennheiser was shooting for with the HD800s: A technical power with with impressive dynamics (macro and micro), detail retrieval that outstrips previous models, staging that provides the kind of height that gives you more layers, and an overall more intense and insightful transducer. However, Yincrow managed to do this and keep that same excellent timbral and tonal accuracy and without treble peaks that can feel like icepicks to your frontal lobes. Something Senn has been unable to accomplish. (Source: I have owned the HD800 and currently own the HD650 and HD800s)

All of that profusive gushing aside, I do have some nit-picks. I feel comfortable recommending the 3Ks to just about anyone with the cash because they're a great performer with an inviting, relaxing, and wholly innofensive presentation. I won't be doing that with the 4Ks for a couple reasons: A) The 4Ks are significantly more expensive and, while they do offer some significant audible advantages over the 3Ks, those advantages are relatively small for the price jump (AKA diminishing returns territory). B) The more forward and energetic nature of the 4Ks makes them awesome in my book, but I can see that making them appeal less as a daily driver to some folks who want a bud that works for casual listening. As I mentioned before, the presentation on the 4Ks requires your full attention. They aren't a casual listening earbud, but I'm betting that's not what Yincrow was going for. They already have the 3Ks for that. So this isn't a criticism for me, but it's something those of you considering a purchase should keep in mind.

Now let me highlight the under the radar star of the show for the 4Ks: the mids. In a pair of technical buds with articulate, impactful bass and crisp, insightful, well extended treble, the mids can be overlooked and, believe it or not, that's perfect. See, the mids on these buds are clean and clear, providing great tonal/timbral accuracy to vocals and instruments in their domain. They do absolutely nothing wrong as they simply do their job and get out of the way so the more exciting extremes can do their thing. To me, the mids are like a great bassist in a band: They sit back, stay in the pocket, and, in doing so, they make everything work. The mids are the unnoticed hero of the 4Ks and they deserve to be acknowledged as such.

The soundstage is a tough nut to crack on the 4Ks. On some tracks it sounded wider and taller than the 3Ks to my ears, but on others it seemed to be similar if not a touch smaller. I was unable to pinpoint what it was about specific tracks that caused this phenomenon, but I noticed it during multiple sessions so I don't think it was a difference in placement, but rather an inherent quality. I have to do more listening and analysis to figure it out, but I took notice and in doing so felt it needed to be mentioned here.

When it comes down to it, who would I recommend the 4Ks to? Those users who listen to the 3Ks and think they'd like to hear that kind of balance with more dynamic swing, more energy, and a 10 to 15% increase in technical performance. I'd also say the 4Ks deserve consideration by anyone looking for a TOTL pair of buds for fully engaged critical listening sessions. Folks who dig bass punch, impact, and articulation paired with detail and sparkle in the treble in a tuning that doesn't overly boost those areas to achieve those characteristics, like myself, are bound to appreciate the 4Ks. Overall, I'm happy with my purchase and pretty impressed by the 4Ks. I expect them to remain in my collection for the foreseeable future.

I hope this was helpful. If anybody has any questions they'd like to ask feel free to post here or PM me and I'll be happy to answer them when I get a chance. Thanks for reading! 🤘😎

Bonus info: For now I have settled on some silicone rings and Fiio Crisp Donuts as my favorite setup on these buds. My favorite portable pairing was with my Cayin N8ii because it can do ultra clean and detailed or dirty things up a bit with the NuTube channel which the 4Ks take very well to. My favorite desktop signal chain was running the 4Ks off of a Schiit Magnius with a Soekris 2541 DAC. Something about this chain added a certain liquid smooth, effortless quality to the presentation that put them over the top. I'm yet to try them on my main rig though as I tend to do most of my bud based sessions when I'm kickin' it in my lounge chair.

Last, but not least, my favorite album that I listened to with the 4Ks so far was a 2019 release from Izz entitled Don't Panic. The recording style employed on the drums on that album made it an absolutely killer experience. I ended up listening to it twice, back to back. It was just progalicious! 🤘😎

a0752599473_10.jpg


Edit: Typos. Because small keyboard + big thumbs + poor proofreading = mistakes.
 
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Mar 6, 2024 at 12:29 AM Post #74,243 of 78,607
I actually have sort of the opposite experience -- I am enlivened by, and really enjoy, A/B listening with different earbuds to favorite songs or passages. I usually only A/B for a fairly short time -- maybe 10-15 minutes -- so I don't get burned out on it. In fact, I find this exposure to different musical "flavors" very stimulating and satisfying to my brain. I have a theory that this "varied flavor exposure" is one of the major reasons why we Earbud People, or Audio People, are always searching for and buying new flavors for our "habit." It is because the different flavors stimulate our brain in different interesting ways. This may create new neural pathways and the release of different or more neurotransmitters. It is a principle in neuroscience that novelty and new experiences stimulate the brain. Anyone else have thoughts about this?

I couldn't agree more! When people ask me why I have so much gear and say that I can't possibly enjoy/use it all, I tell them to follow the which headphone thread I post in constantly to see just how often I change the headphones/IEMs/buds I listen to. Some days I can listen to transducers in the double digit numbers if I spend many hours listening. I let the music and mood inspire the rotation and I find it to be wholly satisfying and very fun.
 
Mar 6, 2024 at 12:45 AM Post #74,244 of 78,607
Alrighty folks, here are my impressions from three days with the Yincrow RW-4000s. As with any preliminary impressions, they can and often do change somewhat over time, though I have put these through a pretty thorough test-drive so I don't anticipate anything dramatic as far as possible changes in my evaluation. Also, I purchased these with my own money, as always. Disclaimers done, I hope you guys find these useful:

Okay, so last night I posted a teaser saying the RW-4000s (referred to as 4Ks from here on) are not just a revamped RW-3000 (3Ks from here on). What I meant by that, is that Yincrow didn't fall into the obvious temptation of bumping the price for a few minor tweaks and an accessory change. Much like the 3Ks are very much their own beast compared to their predecessors, the 2Ks, the 4Ks have their own identity. In that same teaser I referred to the 3Ks as "comfortably excellent," meaning they provide excellent performance as top tier buds should, but they have a relatively safe and balanced tuning paired with a detailed, but overall pretty relaxed presentation. To me their strong suit is being almost indefinitely listenable without the compromise in technical performance and clarity that you often find in buds that can be described similarly.

The 4Ks, on the other hand, take a more energetic and forward approach that makes you sit up and listen. Their tuning is still quite balanced, but the low end has more impact and energy (without being elevated much more than the 3Ks) and the treble gives you a significantly more incisive presentation with some additional detail and sparkle without being fatiguing or sibilant. If the 2Ks are lush, warm, and a bit veiled like the Sennheiser HD650s and the 3Ks are clearer, less warm timbral masterpieces, then the 4Ks are what Sennheiser was shooting for with the HD800s: A technical power with with impressive dynamics (macro and micro), detail retrieval that outstrips previous models, staging that provides the kind of height that gives you more layers, and an overall more intense and insightful transducer. However, Yincrow managed to do this and keep that same excellent timbral and tonal accuracy and without treble peaks that can feel like icepicks to your frontal lobes. Something Senn has been unable to accomplish. (Source: I have owned the HD800 and currently own the HD650 and HD800s)

All of that profusive gushing aside, I do have some nit-picks. I feel comfortable recommending the 3Ks to just about anyone with the cash because they're a great performer with an inviting, relaxing, and wholly innofensive presentation. I won't be doing that with the 4Ks for a couple reasons: A) The 4Ks are significantly more expensive and, while they do offer some significant audible advantages over the 3Ks, those advantages are relatively small for the price jump (AKA finishing returns territory). B) The more forward and energetic nature of the 4Ks makes them awesome in my book, but I can see that making them appeal less as a daily driver to some folks who want a bud that works for casual listening. As I mentioned before, the presentation on the 4Ks requires your full attention. They aren't a casual listening earbud, but I'm betting that's not what Yincrow was going for. They already have the 3Ks for that. So this isn't a criticism for me, but it's something those of you considering a purchase should keep in mind.

Now let me highlight the under the radar star of the show for the 4Ks: the mids. In a pair of technical buds with articulate, impactful bass and crisp, insightful, well extended treble, the mids can be overlooked and, believe it or not, that's perfect. See, the mids on these buds are clean and clear, providing great tonal/timbral accuracy to vocals and instruments in their domain. They do absolutely nothing wrong as they simply do their job and get out of the way so the more exciting extremes can do their thing. To me, the mids are like a great bassist in a band: They sit back, stay in the pocket, and, in doing so, they make everything work. The mids are the unnoticed hero of the 4Ks and they deserve to be acknowledged as such.

The soundstage is a tough nut to crack on the 4Ks. On some tracks it sounded wider and taller than the 3Ks to my ears, but on others it seemed to be similar if not a touch smaller. I was unable to pinpoint what it was about specific tracks that caused this phenomenon, but I noticed it during multiple sessions so I don't think it was a difference in placement, but rather an inherent quality. I have to do more listening and analysis to figure it out, but I took notice and in doing so felt it needed to be mentioned here.

When it comes down to it, who would I recommend the 4Ks to? Those users who listen to the 3Ks and think they'd like to hear that kind of balance with more dynamic swing, more energy, and a 10 to 15% increase in technical performance. I'd also say the 4Ks deserve consideration by anyone looking for a TOTL pair of buds for fully engaged critical listening sessions. Folks who dig bass punch, impact, and articulation paired with detail and sparkle in the treble in a tuning that doesn't overly boost those areas to achieve those characteristics, like myself, are bound to appreciate the 4Ks. Overall, I'm happy with my purchase and pretty impressed by the 4Ks. I expect them to remain in my collection for the foreseeable future.

I hope this was helpful. If anybody has any questions they'd like to ask feel free to post here or PM me and I'll be happy to answer them when I get a chance. Thanks for reading! 🤘😎

Bonus info: For now I have settled on some silicone rings and Fiio Crisp Donuts as my favorite setup on these buds. My favorite portable pairing was with my Cayin N8ii because it can do ultra clean and detailed or dirty things up a bit with the NuTube channel which the 4Ks take very well to. My favorite desktop signal chain was running the 4Ks off of a Schiit Magnius with a Soekris 2541 DAC. Something about this chain added a certain liquid smooth, effortless quality to the presentation that took put them over the top. I'm yeat to try them on my main rig though as I tend to do most of my bud based sessions when I'm kickin' it in my lounge chair.

Last, but not least, my favorite album that I listened to with the 4Ks so far was a 2019 release from Izz entitled Don't Panic. The recording style employed on the drums on that album made it an absolutely killer experience. I ended up listening to it twice, back to back. It was just progalicious! 🤘😎

a0752599473_10.jpg
In a word, 4k are a little more V in comparison with 3k. Aren't they?
 
Mar 6, 2024 at 1:15 AM Post #74,246 of 78,607
@samandhi (sorry, my reply button is wonky and did not display the previous message!) Thanks for affirming my experience! As I said, I am very interested in *why* we all seem to find it so compelling to have more and different earbuds or other inputs. There is considerable research on effects of music on the brain. I am going to have to look at that a little bit and post a few things.
I would love to hear more posts regarding this (I am always up for learning new things that interest me). I just thought that I was an outlier in why I have so many sets, and listen to them all, and am interested in purchases that aren't the same or upgrades to things I already have, but the pre-qualifier is that they ARE different than anything I currently have. This comes from some other threads that I visit, where the masses are looking for the same thing over and over, but with better technicalities, or more energetic, or more musical, etc... But your comments, as well as @JAnonymous5150 and others here, have shown me that my ears aren't the only ones looking for something different to add to their collection. :)
Alrighty folks, here are my impressions from three days with the Yincrow RW-4000s. As with any preliminary impressions, they can and often do change somewhat over time, though I have put these through a pretty thorough test-drive so I don't anticipate anything dramatic as far as possible changes in my evaluation. Also, I purchased these with my own money, as always. Disclaimers done, I hope you guys find these useful:

Okay, so last night I posted a teaser saying the RW-4000s (referred to as 4Ks from here on) are not just a revamped RW-3000 (3Ks from here on). What I meant by that, is that Yincrow didn't fall into the obvious temptation of bumping the price for a few minor tweaks and an accessory change. Much like the 3Ks are very much their own beast compared to their predecessors, the 2Ks, the 4Ks have their own identity. In that same teaser I referred to the 3Ks as "comfortably excellent," meaning they provide excellent performance as top tier buds should, but they have a relatively safe and balanced tuning paired with a detailed, but overall pretty relaxed presentation. To me their strong suit is being almost indefinitely listenable without the compromise in technical performance and clarity that you often find in buds that can be described similarly.

The 4Ks, on the other hand, take a more energetic and forward approach that makes you sit up and listen. Their tuning is still quite balanced, but the low end has more impact and energy (without being elevated much more than the 3Ks) and the treble gives you a significantly more incisive presentation with some additional detail and sparkle without being fatiguing or sibilant. If the 2Ks are lush, warm, and a bit veiled like the Sennheiser HD650s and the 3Ks are clearer, less warm timbral masterpieces, then the 4Ks are what Sennheiser was shooting for with the HD800s: A technical power with with impressive dynamics (macro and micro), detail retrieval that outstrips previous models, staging that provides the kind of height that gives you more layers, and an overall more intense and insightful transducer. However, Yincrow managed to do this and keep that same excellent timbral and tonal accuracy and without treble peaks that can feel like icepicks to your frontal lobes. Something Senn has been unable to accomplish. (Source: I have owned the HD800 and currently own the HD650 and HD800s)

All of that profusive gushing aside, I do have some nit-picks. I feel comfortable recommending the 3Ks to just about anyone with the cash because they're a great performer with an inviting, relaxing, and wholly innofensive presentation. I won't be doing that with the 4Ks for a couple reasons: A) The 4Ks are significantly more expensive and, while they do offer some significant audible advantages over the 3Ks, those advantages are relatively small for the price jump (AKA finishing returns territory). B) The more forward and energetic nature of the 4Ks makes them awesome in my book, but I can see that making them appeal less as a daily driver to some folks who want a bud that works for casual listening. As I mentioned before, the presentation on the 4Ks requires your full attention. They aren't a casual listening earbud, but I'm betting that's not what Yincrow was going for. They already have the 3Ks for that. So this isn't a criticism for me, but it's something those of you considering a purchase should keep in mind.

Now let me highlight the under the radar star of the show for the 4Ks: the mids. In a pair of technical buds with articulate, impactful bass and crisp, insightful, well extended treble, the mids can be overlooked and, believe it or not, that's perfect. See, the mids on these buds are clean and clear, providing great tonal/timbral accuracy to vocals and instruments in their domain. They do absolutely nothing wrong as they simply do their job and get out of the way so the more exciting extremes can do their thing. To me, the mids are like a great bassist in a band: They sit back, stay in the pocket, and, in doing so, they make everything work. The mids are the unnoticed hero of the 4Ks and they deserve to be acknowledged as such.

The soundstage is a tough nut to crack on the 4Ks. On some tracks it sounded wider and taller than the 3Ks to my ears, but on others it seemed to be similar if not a touch smaller. I was unable to pinpoint what it was about specific tracks that caused this phenomenon, but I noticed it during multiple sessions so I don't think it was a difference in placement, but rather an inherent quality. I have to do more listening and analysis to figure it out, but I took notice and in doing so felt it needed to be mentioned here.

When it comes down to it, who would I recommend the 4Ks to? Those users who listen to the 3Ks and think they'd like to hear that kind of balance with more dynamic swing, more energy, and a 10 to 15% increase in technical performance. I'd also say the 4Ks deserve consideration by anyone looking for a TOTL pair of buds for fully engaged critical listening sessions. Folks who dig bass punch, impact, and articulation paired with detail and sparkle in the treble in a tuning that doesn't overly boost those areas to achieve those characteristics, like myself, are bound to appreciate the 4Ks. Overall, I'm happy with my purchase and pretty impressed by the 4Ks. I expect them to remain in my collection for the foreseeable future.

I hope this was helpful. If anybody has any questions they'd like to ask feel free to post here or PM me and I'll be happy to answer them when I get a chance. Thanks for reading! 🤘😎

Bonus info: For now I have settled on some silicone rings and Fiio Crisp Donuts as my favorite setup on these buds. My favorite portable pairing was with my Cayin N8ii because it can do ultra clean and detailed or dirty things up a bit with the NuTube channel which the 4Ks take very well to. My favorite desktop signal chain was running the 4Ks off of a Schiit Magnius with a Soekris 2541 DAC. Something about this chain added a certain liquid smooth, effortless quality to the presentation that took put them over the top. I'm yeat to try them on my main rig though as I tend to do most of my bud based sessions when I'm kickin' it in my lounge chair.

Last, but not least, my favorite album that I listened to with the 4Ks so far was a 2019 release from Izz entitled Don't Panic. The recording style employed on the drums on that album made it an absolutely killer experience. I ended up listening to it twice, back to back. It was just progalicious! 🤘😎

a0752599473_10.jpg
These are some fantastic impressions of the new buds. Thanks very much for sharing them with us (and I sincerely hope you aren't still exclusively typing on your phone ;)).

As I mentioned, way back when, about the 2K and the 3K, which I ALMOST passed on (the 3K) because, while the things they fixed or changed from the 2K to the 3K were very good, the price increase was fairly large. I ended up being willing to pay that difference for the 3K (as you know from having both sets), but with the 4K, it doesn't sound like the significance in price increase will be even worth calling diminishing returns. This jump has kept me from purchasing them thus far (not that I haven't bought some kilobuck IEMs though), and I am glad that I waited to this point.

Personally, I found the Chaconne worth the higher price, but in all honesty, and even though I love them, the Maria II weren't worth the huge price paid for those. Having said that, if/when the price comes down on the 4K I will feel pretty comfortable in purchasing them because of your impressions on these. While you and I have slightly different preferences on buds, thus far we have always agreed on what is an overall good set and what it not (in other words I trust your thoughts on what "quality" sound is).

So, is what you are alluding to when using the word "energetic" that they are more reference with some boosts/spikes (even though you mentioned you though they didn't have any), or reference with musicality? I like both, but I am curious to know which you meant here (they are obviously at LEAST reference from your comment about "critical listening", which makes sense). I am also glad that you took the time to use a Nutube amp with these, as I believe that the Yincrow line have pretty good luck with tube amping (IME). Also, I know that these are easy to drive, but do they scale with more power, that you noticed? And, finally (from me), do they come with different accessories than the 2K and 3K (i.e. cable, tips, foams, etc...)???

I will definitely check out that music rec, as I have not heard of them before (I am getting old, and it becomes harder to pick the good stuff from the crap nowadays for me haha). Thanks for sharing that. I have found that I (almost) unwittingly choose some sets based on whether I can hear the drums. I guess it actually makes some sense when consciously thinking about it. If I can hear the bass drum, the toms/snares, and all the cymbals with tonal accuracy, and fairly linearly and with clarity (including second harmonics), then that set tends to have good overall balance. :) I think this "choosing" method began with my planar journey, because everything sounds punchy or plucked with most of those sets. This makes drums and drumming the star of the show on those sets, but everything else is good as well. And it seems as though prog rock is still very on point in putting the drums "not in the background", but also not "in your face" either.
I couldn't agree more! When people ask me why I have so much gear and say that I can't possibly enjoy/use it all, I tell them to follow the which headphone thread I post in constantly to see just how often I change the headphones/IEMs/buds I listen to. Some days I can listen to transducers in the double digit numbers if I spend many hours listening. I let the music and mood inspire the rotation and I find it to be wholly satisfying and very fun.
"that I can't possibly enjoy/use it all" My wife tells me that all the time as I walk back and forth some nights to switch head gear constantly, until I find that one that makes the particular music I am listening to, sound good to my ears.
 
Mar 6, 2024 at 1:33 AM Post #74,247 of 78,607
In a word, 4k are a little more V in comparison with 3k. Aren't they?

The overall tuning and balance are quite similar. They have perhaps a smidge more bass, but the difference there is less because of an increase in quantity and more a result of an increase in quality (impact, texture, articulation, detail, dynamics, etc.) The 4Ks certainly have a bit more upper treble that adds some sparkle, atmosphere, and microdetailing, but it's not overdone and the upper mids to lower treble treatment is very similar to the 3Ks. So, in a way, you could say they're "more v shaped" but I am reluctant to use that terminology because it invokes an assumption by readers of significant boosts at both ends and a recessed mid section. The mids are not what I would call recessed in the 4Ks (or the 3Ks for that matter), at least not significantly so and the extremes don't present as being what many think of as boosted and certainly aren't boosted much in comparison to the 3Ks.

I was going for a more detailed and nuanced description of the differences so I wouldn't leave a mistaken impression by saying they're "more v shaped" and letting imaginations take it from there. Hopefully this post will clarify a bit and answer your question satisfactorily at the same time. 👍
 
Mar 6, 2024 at 1:53 AM Post #74,248 of 78,607
I normally keep pretty quiet about my love for the Green Mambas because I know that they aren't for everyone
Quoted your phrase from the story) So, are they (Viridis) still good earbuds today?
I ordered them, tempted by the low price. I understand that they will be bright, but that's what I want to try)
 
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Mar 6, 2024 at 2:02 AM Post #74,249 of 78,607
I would love to hear more posts regarding this (I am always up for learning new things that interest me). I just thought that I was an outlier in why I have so many sets, and listen to them all, and am interested in purchases that aren't the same or upgrades to things I already have, but the pre-qualifier is that they ARE different than anything I currently have. This comes from some other threads that I visit, where the masses are looking for the same thing over and over, but with better technicalities, or more energetic, or more musical, etc... But your comments, as well as @JAnonymous5150 and others here, have shown me that my ears aren't the only ones looking for something different to add to their collection. :)

These are some fantastic impressions of the new buds. Thanks very much for sharing them with us (and I sincerely hope you aren't still exclusively typing on your phone :wink:).

As I mentioned, way back when, about the 2K and the 3K, which I ALMOST passed on (the 3K) because, while the things they fixed or changed from the 2K to the 3K were very good, the price increase was fairly large. I ended up being willing to pay that difference for the 3K (as you know from having both sets), but with the 4K, it doesn't sound like the significance in price increase will be even worth calling diminishing returns. This jump has kept me from purchasing them thus far (not that I haven't bought some kilobuck IEMs though), and I am glad that I waited to this point.

Personally, I found the Chaconne worth the higher price, but in all honesty, and even though I love them, the Maria II weren't worth the huge price paid for those. Having said that, if/when the price comes down on the 4K I will feel pretty comfortable in purchasing them because of your impressions on these. While you and I have slightly different preferences on buds, thus far we have always agreed on what is an overall good set and what it not (in other words I trust your thoughts on what "quality" sound is).

So, is what you are alluding to when using the word "energetic" that they are more reference with some boosts/spikes (even though you mentioned you though they didn't have any), or reference with musicality? I like both, but I am curious to know which you meant here (they are obviously at LEAST reference from your comment about "critical listening", which makes sense). I am also glad that you took the time to use a Nutube amp with these, as I believe that the Yincrow line have pretty good luck with tube amping (IME). Also, I know that these are easy to drive, but do they scale with more power, that you noticed? And, finally (from me), do they come with different accessories than the 2K and 3K (i.e. cable, tips, foams, etc...)???

I will definitely check out that music rec, as I have not heard of them before (I am getting old, and it becomes harder to pick the good stuff from the crap nowadays for me haha). Thanks for sharing that. I have found that I (almost) unwittingly choose some sets based on whether I can hear the drums. I guess it actually makes some sense when consciously thinking about it. If I can hear the bass drum, the toms/snares, and all the cymbals with tonal accuracy, and fairly linearly and with clarity (including second harmonics), then that set tends to have good overall balance. :) I think this "choosing" method began with my planar journey, because everything sounds punchy or plucked with most of those sets. This makes drums and drumming the star of the show on those sets, but everything else is good as well. And it seems as though prog rock is still very on point in putting the drums "not in the background", but also not "in your face" either.

"that I can't possibly enjoy/use it all" My wife tells me that all the time as I walk back and forth some nights to switch head gear constantly, until I find that one that makes the particular music I am listening to, sound good to my ears.

I had the laptop running a software update on my studio setup so this was, once again, all typed on the phone. 🤣 I'm telling you, I very rarely visit the forum when I'm on my laptop as I'm generally working on something when I am. The forum is something I hit up on breaks or when I'm kickin' it having a casual sesh.

Now on to your questions:

By energy I am NOT referring to spikes in the FR, though there are some tastefully employed spikes up top on the 4Ks. The energy I'm referring to here comes more in the form of dynamics. Whatever driver Yincrow has employed here just has a sharper attack on notes, with higher impulse and greater amplitude for example on things like drum strikes and cymbal crashes. The decay of notes is crisper and the microdynamics therein are much more present and discernable. All of that gives the whole presentation a much more intense and energetic feel. I wasn't referring to energy in an area of FR so that may have been a poor choice of words. This is one of the reasons I had to take time to consider how to describe things because the difference is obvious when you hear the 4K vs the 3K, but describing it in universally understood terms isn't so easy.

As for your mention of the price and performance difference between the 2K and 3K, I'd say the jump to the 3K was an overall larger increase in total performance than the jump from the 3K to the 4K. That said, I found the jump to the 4K to be as impressive, if not moreso, because I think adding that last 10% to 15% of performance to the 4K when the 3K was already so good is a good deal more difficult to achieve without employing tricks like overly boosting certain frequencies than it was to achieve the performance jump between the 2K and 3K. So yes, Yincrow are asking for more money for a smaller relative step, but, because that step was assuredly harder to accomplish, I understand the cost. As to whether you/others would find the increased price to be justified, I can't say. That's always a pretty personal part of the equation.

Saying what you did about trusting my judgement in sound quality is a very high compliment and I really appreciate it, bro. I can say that I believe you'll definitely like the 4K just based on what I know of your opinions on buds like the 3K, Maria IIs, and others that we have both owned. I think you're likely to be similarly impressed as I was by what Yincrow did with the 4K. That said, they aren't going anywhere and prices will surely come down a bit over time so there's no need to rush out and grab one before they do.

The 4Ks are definitely reference quality with less of the euphonic/musical kind of warmth that the 3Ks have. They go for more of the ultimate clarity and technical prowess, forgoing the added charm of that touch of lower mid warmth in favor of a more clean transition there. Their musicality comes entirely from their accuracy and I think their incisive nature would've been blunted a bit by any additional warmth so I would bet that passing on that aspect was an intentional choice. It's one of the things that adds to the more critical and intense nature. The 4Ks have hardly any of the laid back appeal that the 3Ks employ and that the 2Ks revel in.

I also totally agree with the presentation of drums on an album being a great way to sense the overall balance of a transducer and I, too, find quality prog albums to be some of the best for that purpose. Then again, I'm a drummer so I'm guessing no one is surprised by that. 😉😎

P.S. This was also typed on my phone...feverishly! 😅😜
 
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Mar 6, 2024 at 2:08 AM Post #74,250 of 78,607
Quoted your phrase from the story) So, are they (Viridis) still good earbuds today?
I ordered them, tempted by the low price. I understand that they will be bright, but that's what I want to try)

I was just listening to my Viridis last week and I certainly still find them to be good buds. They have one of the biggest stages I've heard in pair of buds. Combine that with very good detail retrieval and a driver that is quick and agile and I think the Virdis are still a darn good example of a brightly tuned pair of buds. One of my favorites in fact.

I still understand why some folks don't like them though. They make tracks sound fantastic or terrible and not much in between so they aren't great all-rounders, but when you find a track/album/artist/genre they mesh with, you can end up with a pretty magical experience on your hands.

Edit: When you get them let me/us know what you think of them. 👍😎
 

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