[samandhi]

Many here that have known me for a while know that normally I try and not be "argumentative", but I really had to speak my mind about a specific post that FiiO made that was an attempt to address concerns about the new proprietary connector on the FF3S, raised by @4ceratops (and rightly so). I sort of feel badly for voicing my opinion so (seemingly) harshly, but there it is anyhow.... If you aren't following that thread, you can see it here.

Meanwhile, has anyone seen any updates on the new Longyao Yinman models for those that peruse Taobao? I have been so busy that I have not had the chance to do a search, and I am really interested in checking out those models.

 

[Leonarfd]

Many here that have known me for a while know that normally I try and not be "argumentative", but I really had to speak my mind about a specific post that FiiO made that was an attempt to address concerns about the new proprietary connector on the FF3S, raised by @4ceratops (and rightly so). I sort of feel badly for voicing my opinion so (seemingly) harshly, but there it is anyhow.... If you aren't following that thread, you can see it here.

Meanwhile, has anyone seen any updates on the new Longyao Yinman models for those that peruse Taobao? I have been so busy that I have not had the chance to do a search, and I am really interested in checking out those models.

I'm with you on this, I also complained on some of their newer IEMs having similar type of proprietary connector.

But it's all about the money, earning more since people have to buy their cables...

 

[samandhi]

I'm with you on this, I also complained on some of their newer IEMs having similar type of proprietary connector.

But it's all about the money, earning more since people have to buy their cables...

I think that companies like Apple, Samsung, etc... have gotten away with this behavior because at the time it was implemented they WERE considered the best you could get, and most times it WAS innovative (until Samsung starting putting simple things behind a paywall and copying Apple, and Apple took away the 3.5mm jack, etc... anyhow IMO), but FiiO is NOT top dog in the industry (though they are a big name nonetheless). There is PLENTY of fantastic choices out there that are as good (or in some cases better) for them to make such an obviously "pure business" decision and not based on customer desires for a better product. James, you are (once again) stepping on your own **ts...

Anyhow, I am probably making WAY more of this, and giving it WAY more attention than it deserves, so I will stop now and let it go... It is what it is, and for those that do purchase the new FF3S, I sincerely hope you enjoy the heck out of them.

 

[mt877]

WOW! It certainly looks fantastic on paper. I would be interested in how it actually sounds as well (though it looks as though it can't help but sound good)... If I were wanting a pure SS amp for my "hole" in my equipment, this would definitely be on top of my short list (especially for the price). The price is what is so surprising to me. Normally you need to pay two times (or even more) to get the wonderful stats that this device has for sound.

Damn good find sir!

Thanks, not so much a find, more like stumbling onto the ASR forum review of the amp when doing a google search for something else. Then finding it was discounted for $60 off retail of $499 during Amazon Prime day sale sealed the deal.

I'm with you on this, I also complained on some of their newer IEMs having similar type of proprietary connector.

But it's all about the money, earning more since people have to buy their cables...

I think that companies like Apple, Samsung, etc... have gotten away with this behavior because at the time it was implemented they WERE considered the best you could get, and most times it WAS innovative (until Samsung starting putting simple things behind a paywall and copying Apple, and Apple took away the 3.5mm jack, etc... anyhow IMO), but FiiO is NOT top dog in the industry (though they are a big name nonetheless). There is PLENTY of fantastic choices out there that are as good (or in some cases better) for them to make such an obviously "pure business" decision and not based on customer desires for a better product. James, you are (once again) stepping on your own **ts...

Anyhow, I am probably making WAY more of this, and giving it WAY more attention than it deserves, so I will stop now and let it go... It is what it is, and for those that do purchase the new FF3S, I sincerely hope you enjoy the heck out of them.

I already mentioned this about the FF1 / FF3S cable in this tread before. Where there is a problem, there is also a business opportunity. Just make a better cable that uses a 2 pin connector which is dissimilar to FiiO's design but that fits their earbuds perfectly and solve the problem of their cable monopoly.

 

[mt877]

Probably it would be interesting for FiiO to know how many buyers rejected FF1/3S for this reason.

+1 from me.

I'm not going to let this cable thing bug me. Even though I have a set of the OG FF3 which I like a lot, I will probably get a set of the FF3S some time in the future.

 

[Rackhour]

I'm not going to let this cable thing bug me. Even though I have a set of the OG FF3 which I like a lot, I will probably get a set of the FF3S some time in the future.

I actually got a like-new FF1 from a private seller at more than half off the MSRP, just so I can do some destructive experimentation with the cable. I basically want to find out just how proprietary the cable and plugs are, and whether there is even a sliver of a chance that the cable could be used with other 2-pins and vice versa.

This isn’t to defend FiiO, mind you, because after all, companies don’t need defending.

I can’t do these now because I am hosting a portable audio meet-up at the end of the month, but once that’s over…

 

[samandhi]

Thanks, not so much a find, more like stumbling onto the ASR forum review of the amp when doing a google search for something else. Then finding it was discounted for $60 off retail of $499 during Amazon Prime day sale sealed the deal.

That is one heck of a deal IMO. You will have to share your impressions here (where it concerns earbuds ) when you get it?! I would love to hear about it.

I already mentioned this about the FF1 / FF3S cable in this tread before. Where there is a problem, there is also a business opportunity. Just make a better cable that uses a 2 pin connector which is dissimilar to FiiO's design but that fits their earbuds perfectly and solve the problem of their cable monopoly.

This is probably what will end up happening, but to me that isn't really a solution, and will cause people to have to buy a cable that ONLY works with these buds. If it doesn't synergize well, then they have a dust catcher in wire form.

I'm not going to let this cable thing bug me. Even though I have a set of the OG FF3 which I like a lot, I will probably get a set of the FF3S some time in the future.

I certainly wouldn't hold it against you (not that it would matter if I did haha). As a matter of fact, I would love to hear whether they differ at all from the OG or not (FiiO didn't answer that question on the FiiO thread when I posted in response to the sponsor showing unboxing and comparison pictures, they didn't reply to me at all actually ).

I am also curios to know from someone that find the fitment of the OG to be good, whether the flatter and wider stems throw off the balance.

 

[samandhi]

I actually got a like-new FF1 from a private seller at more than half off the MSRP, just so I can do some destructive experimentation with the cable. I basically want to find out just how proprietary the cable and plugs are, and whether there is even a sliver of a chance that the cable could be used with other 2-pins and vice versa.

This isn’t to defend FiiO, mind you, because after all, companies don’t need defending.

I can’t do these now because I am hosting a portable audio meet-up at the end of the month, but once that’s over…

That will be an interesting experiment to hear about.

What kind of portable gear are you expecting for this meet-up? That also sounds interesting.

 

[Rackhour]

That will be an interesting experiment to hear about.

What kind of portable gear are you expecting for this meet-up? That also sounds interesting.

I suppose I could've worded that a little better.

I brought this up in passing over at the intro/rec subforum - I'm going to host a morning headphones and earphones meet-up targeting some of my peers in my profession (conference interpretation). The thing is that it's mostly going to be me putting most of what I own (my signature minus TWS and DACs) on display, and having them trial stuff. I'm not even anywhere near as knowledgeable in portable audio compared to most people in this forum, but compared to my peers, I'll probably be "that guy."

It's being framed as "wanna try some gear that you don't see elsewhere? You might find something more comfortable."

There is going to be only one pair that won't be mine there, and it's a PortaPro from one of my closer peers.
--
As for the experiment, I'm going to find answers to these questions:

Is the cable usable with my other 2-pin IEMs? Do I need modifications to make that happen?

If I shave down the FF1's cable input "barrier," can I plug in other 2-pin cables?

 

[Chessnaudio]

I asked @WoodyLuvr who will be the keeper of his impressive database in his absence, and if it is ok with him I can take it up. Even though I have been in this community for less than a year, I am thankful that he entrusted me with it. I will try my best to maintain this.

I am maintaining this, but in no way I can claim the ownership. It is ours, the BUDHEADS. Hence I have renamed it accordingly.

BUDHEADS' FLATHEAD TIMELINE

Thanks. This thread has been by far one of the most enjoyable and a big part in my audio growth in my knowledge and learning my preferences.

 

[baskingshark]

I think that companies like Apple, Samsung, etc... have gotten away with this behavior because at the time it was implemented they WERE considered the best you could get, and most times it WAS innovative (until Samsung starting putting simple things behind a paywall and copying Apple, and Apple took away the 3.5mm jack, etc... anyhow IMO), but FiiO is NOT top dog in the industry (though they are a big name nonetheless). There is PLENTY of fantastic choices out there that are as good (or in some cases better) for them to make such an obviously "pure business" decision and not based on customer desires for a better product. James, you are (once again) stepping on your own **ts...

Anyhow, I am probably making WAY more of this, and giving it WAY more attention than it deserves, so I will stop now and let it go... It is what it is, and for those that do purchase the new FF3S, I sincerely hope you enjoy the heck out of them.

Bro, at the end of the day, it is all about $$$$$. Apparently from some industry insiders, Apple earned a crapload of money from their proprietary thingies: https://www.head-fi.org/threads/cay...k-dongle-dac-amp.968064/page-80#post-17618286

2 billion as of 2015! And Apple's userbase tripled since then.

 

[ilmothedude]

I recently bought Fiio RC-UE2B 2.5mm balanced cable to use with my Rose Maria. It has same type of 0,75mm 2 pin connector, even with same kind of recessed design, so it fits Maria perfectly. Now I can use Maria over ear, and it works surprisingly well. Actually really well, I think this is the best way to wear Maria. It's airy feeling since there's no cable weigh involved, and since there's no cable pulling down, fit is more secure. And that airy but secure fit absolutely highlights Maria's soundstage capabilities; holographic and huge with immense amount of air! So good!

 

[ian91]

I think it's time for a shift around in my rankings...

Out of interest, what are peoples Top 10 earbuds?

What matters to me, in order of priority:
1. Timbre
2. Preferred tuning: balanced with slight warmth, vocal-forward
3. Stage size
4. Resolution
5. Dynamics

Source: DX300 Amp12 (anything above 100ohm I tend to introduce the Defiant but it's not a hard and fast rule)

1. VE Asura Pure White Shining (Bell-Horn, 150ohm)
2. TGXear Alpha (MX500, 600ohm bery)
3. Blur OFC MX400 non-aPs Special Tuning Edition (MX500, 400ohm graphene)
4. Blur OFC MX64 aPs Special Tuning Edition (MX500, 64ohm, white glue variant)
5. VE Zen Shining Ultimate (Bell-Horn, 320ohm) - based on 'fun-factor' alone
6. TGXear Sunniva + tuning kit (MX500, 180ohm bery)
7. Blur OFC PK150 Wraith (PK, 150ohm)
8. FranQL Aquila (DP100, 85ohm bio)
9. VE Zen SL (custom PK, 320ohm)
10. VE Sun DICE (Bell-Horn 180ohm)

Honorable mention: Blur MX300 美魔女 Beautiful Witch aPs

The APWS is a bit of an oddity amongst this top 10. It's warmer and much smoother than the rest but how it does vocals is special enough to secure it pole position. Zen SU is also an oddity, with timbral flaws and a very smooth presentation. Weight, dynamics, size of the image and the warmer presentation makes it my go to for aggressive music.

List subject to change!

Source: Mostly Defiant (due to desk listening these days), DX300 Amp12 otherwise.

1. VE Asura Pure White Shining (Bell-Horn, 150ohm)
2. FQL Ibis (DP100, 400ohm graphene)
3. FQL Blue Moon
4. TGXear Alpha (MX500, 600ohm bery)
5. TGXear Desolation Sound
6. VE Zen Shining Ultimate (Bell-Horn, 320ohm)
7. Blur OFC MX64 aPs Special Tuning Edition (MX500, 64ohm, white glue variant)
8. VE Zen SL (custom PK, 320ohm)
9. TGXear Sunniva + tuning kit (MX500, 180ohm bery)
10. VE Sun DICE (Bell-Horn, 180ohm)

Honorable Mentions:
Blur OFC PK150 Wraith (PK, 150ohm)
FranQL Aquila (DP100, 85ohm bio)
Blur OFC MX400 non-aPs Special Tuning Edition (MX500, 400ohm graphene)
VE Monk A1 (MX500, 32ohm bio)

A few movers and shakers of note. @FranQL blew my mind with Ibis and Blue Moon. Super special earbuds in their own rights, one organic and dynamic, the other incredibly clean, resolving and delicate. The Blue Moon reminds me of the high techs of ClieOS planar, good staging and excellent air. Thankfully vocals are much more soulful and there's no unfortunate low end roll off. The Ibis feels like my old Blur OFC MX400 non-aPs STE fully realised. Less dampened and more emotive but with a similarly analog sound and convincing timbre. It flew up my list and has made the Blur rather obsolete for that special timbre sauce. The Ibis has a weightier low end and better dynamics than TGXear Alpha and competes with it in terms of technicalities. The Ibis is just that bit more warm and exciting as an allrounder where the Alpha tends to specialise more with instruments/classical. Fran is truly at the top of his craft. These are two stunning sets and they represent a prime virtue of the flathead realm, the special people in it and the heart put into creating the best sound.

Desolation Sound has really impressed me, it's resolving, has character and lacks very little apart from some low end weight. The reason it features further down is that I find the timbre less convincing than those above it and that may be part in due to the lighter fundamental notes. I do reach for the Alpha more but on the go, Desolation Sound needs less power to shine so it is a strong alternative.

Another surprise was the VE Monk A1. It's a warm but detailed vocal-orientated set with a lot of heart that will more than justify the likely price tag. I imagine it won't be more than $30 (no formal price on it yet) and I have happily used it as a my 'beater' set for over a month and it's given some really beautiful moments to my acoustic vocal tracks with great instrument separation and string texture.

 

[ttorbic]

I think it's time for a shift around in my rankings...



Source: Mostly Defiant (due to desk listening these days), DX300 Amp12 otherwise.

1. VE Asura Pure White Shining (Bell-Horn, 150ohm)
2. FQL Ibis (DP100, 400ohm graphene)
3. FQL Blue Moon
4. TGXear Alpha (MX500, 600ohm bery)
5. TGXear Desolation Sound
6. VE Zen Shining Ultimate (Bell-Horn, 320ohm)
7. Blur OFC MX64 aPs Special Tuning Edition (MX500, 64ohm, white glue variant)
8. VE Zen SL (custom PK, 320ohm)
9. TGXear Sunniva + tuning kit (MX500, 180ohm bery)
10. VE Sun DICE (Bell-Horn 180ohm)

Honorable Mentions:
Blur OFC PK150 Wraith (PK, 150ohm)
FranQL Aquila (DP100, 85ohm bio)
Blur OFC MX400 non-aPs Special Tuning Edition (MX500, 400ohm graphene)
VE Monk A1 (MX500, 32ohm bio)

A few movers and shakers of note. @FranQL blew my mind with Ibis and Blue Moon. Super special earbuds in their own rights, one organic and dynamic, the other incredibly clean, resolving and delicate. The Blue Moon reminds me of the high techs of ClieOS planar, good staging and excellent air. Thankfully vocals are much more soulful and there's no unfortunate low end roll off. The Ibis feels like my old Blur OFC MX400 non-aPs STE fully realised. Less dampened and more emotive but with a similarly analog sound and convincing timbre. It flew up my list and has made the Blur rather obsolete for that special timbre sauce. The Ibis has a weightier low end and better dynamics than TGXear Alpha and competes with it in terms of technicalities. The Ibis is just that bit more warm and exciting as an allrounder where the Alpha tends to specialise more with instruments/classical. Fran is truly at the top of his craft. These are two stunning sets and they represent a prime virtue of the flathead realm - the special people in it, putting their heart into creating the best sound.

Desolation Sound has really impressed me, it's resolving, has character and lacks very little apart from some low end weight. The reason it features further down is I find the timbre less convincing than those above it and that may be part in due to the lighter fundamental notes. I do reach for the Alpha more but on the go, Desolation Sound needs less power to shine so it is a strong alternative.

Another surprise was the VE Monk A1. It's a warm but detailed vocal-orientated set with a lot of heart that belies the likely price tag. I imagine it won't cost more than $30 (no formal price on it yet) and I have happily used it as a my 'beater' set for over a month and it's given some really beautiful moments to my acoustic vocal tracks with great instrument separation and string texture.

Thanks for sharing - what an impressive collection!

 

[ian91]

Thanks for sharing - what an impressive collection!

Thank you! If you ever want to meet for an afternoon of earbuds, let me know!