[bigshot]

Do either of you listen to a lot of classical recordings?

 

[Steve999]

I do, kind sir.

Do either of you listen to a lot of classical recordings?

 

[bigshot]

What recent DDD classical recordings have you been listening to lately?

 

[Steve999]

Okay, I have to get out of bed and check, what is it.... the SPARs codes......

...... Steve999 walks over to his CD collection. . .

Mahler, sympnies 1 & 5, on some weird PILZ label

Murray Perriah, Bach, Goldberg variations,

Trevor Pinnock, Bach, Brandenburg Concertos

Beethoven, symphonies no. 5 & 7, Christian Thielman

Holst, the planets, Previn (Telarc)

What recent DDD classical recordings have you been listening to lately?

 

[gregorio]

Gregorio, if you're tired of this topic, you could always just change the subject to crossfeed or the high frequency capabilities of vinyl cartridges.

I'm not tired of this topic I'd like to continue it, but that's the problem, we're NOT continuing it. TheSonicTruth is just going back to page 2-3 of this thread (and other threads he's participated in) and repeating the same self-contradictions, misrepresentations and lack of understanding. Continuing, instead of going round in circles, would be nice!

[1] They are just more likely to be processed in certain way(hyper compression and/or over EQ), [2] so that when people hear the difference they think they are getting the real deal!

1. I've heard of only one example of a hypercompressed classical recording, maybe there are a handful of others. A handful out of tens of thousands, that's what, 0.01% or so? How then "are they just more likely to be processed" that certain way? Surely they are 99.99% LESS likely to be processed that way!!

2. What difference?

G

 

[TheSonicTruth]

I'm not tired of this topic I'd like to continue it, but that's the problem, we're NOT continuing it. TheSonicTruth is just going back to page 2-3 of this thread (and other threads he's participated in) and repeating the same self-contradictions, misrepresentations and lack of understanding. Continuing, instead of going round in circles, would be nice!



1. I've heard of only one example of a hypercompressed classical recording, maybe there are a handful of others. A handful out of tens of thousands, that's what, 0.01% or so? How then "are they just more likely to be processed" that certain way? Surely they are 99.99% LESS likely to be processed that way!!

2. What difference?

G

2. The difference between, for instance, an original and a remaster of something, or, a early Red book release and a recent hi-res download. Processing choices in mixing and mastering trump format in both of those cases.

 

[gregorio]

2. The difference between, for instance, an original and a remaster of something, or, a early Red book release and a recent hi-res download. Processing choices in mixing and mastering trump format in both of those cases.

The original had processing choices in mixing and mastering too, how is that always more of a "real deal" than the mixing/mastering choices of more recent releases?

G

 

[TheSonicTruth]

The original had processing choices in mixing and mastering too, how is that always more of a "real deal" than the mixing/mastering choices of more recent releases?

G

Because in the days when the original was made the processing(whatever processing - EQ, comp, etc) was likely not cranked all the way to 11, as it often is with remasters, or modern(post-2000) releases.

 

[gregorio]

Because in the days when the original was made the processing(whatever processing - EQ, comp, etc) was likely not cranked all the way to 11, as it often is with remasters, or modern(post-2000) releases.

Not sure I've seen many classical music remasters cranked all the way to 11, do you have a list?

G

 

[TheSonicTruth]

Not sure I've seen many classical music remasters cranked all the way to 11, do you have a list?

G

Admittedly I have included pop/classic rock/rap genres in my analysis, of which I have more visual proof if you'd like. Remasters of THOSE genres have been 'cranked to 11' in the remesstering process.

 

[bigshot]

Mahler, sympnies 1 & 5, on some weird PILZ label
Murray Perriah, Bach, Goldberg variations,
Trevor Pinnock, Bach, Brandenburg Concertos
Beethoven, symphonies no. 5 & 7, Christian Thielman
Holst, the planets, Previn (Telarc)

Which of these recordings are unpleasant and frustrating because they were recorded digitally?

Admittedly I have included pop/classic rock/rap genres in my analysis, of which I have more visual proof if you'd like.

Sonic, there's no need for any visual proof. We've already explained that waveforms don't represent sound quality accurately. Pictures of sound are a symbolic representation, not a true one.

This thread is specifically about compression of classical music on CD. I have tens of thousands of classical CDs and I can't think of any off the top of my head that have excessive compression. I can think of several that have too much dynamic range, and I have a harpsichord set that is normalized up and is way too loud compared to other CDs, but that was due to the limited dynamics of the instrument itself, not the recording technique. If I had to generalize, almost all of the remasters of recordings that I've heard on earlier releases on early CD or LP sound better on re-release if they sound different at all. Most classical CD releases sound pretty much the same after remastering. I don't see compression as a problem at all in classical music.

I'd actually appreciate hearing you speak about examples of bad mastering in classical music that you've heard and perhaps compared with earlier releases... specifically if you have noticed obvious problems with sound quality, like compression artifacts. Do you have any examples of pumping or noise being pulled up from ham handed compression? I would be very interested in hearing examples of that.

 

[gregorio]

Admittedly I have included pop/classic rock/rap genres in my analysis ....

As this thread is about compression of classical music, can you not include pop/classic rock/rap and other genres from your analysis and just give us the remainder of your analysis?

G

 

[bigshot]

I thought of some classical recordings that have compression artifacts... a recording of excerpts from Tristan und Isolde by Kirstin Flagstad made in 1939. Also Walter’s live Mahler 9 from 1938. Compression was being used on radio at that time and for a brief period before WW2 it was used on records as well.

 

[TheSonicTruth]

I thought of some classical recordings that have compression artifacts... a recording of excerpts from Tristan und Isolde by Kirstin Flagstad made in 1939. Also Walter’s live Mahler 9 from 1938. Compression was being used on radio at that time and for a brief period before WW2 it was used on records as well.

Back then though probably to prevent over-modulation on the radio, and to prevent throwing the stylus out of the groove on records. But not as a volume control.

 

[TheSonicTruth]

Which of these recordings are unpleasant and frustrating because they were recorded digitally?



Sonic, there's no need for any visual proof. We've already explained that waveforms don't represent sound quality accurately. Pictures of sound are a symbolic representation, not a true one.

This thread is specifically about compression of classical music on CD. I have tens of thousands of classical CDs and I can't think of any off the top of my head that have excessive compression. I can think of several that have too much dynamic range, and I have a harpsichord set that is normalized up and is way too loud compared to other CDs, but that was due to the limited dynamics of the instrument itself, not the recording technique. If I had to generalize, almost all of the remasters of recordings that I've heard on earlier releases on early CD or LP sound better on re-release if they sound different at all. Most classical CD releases sound pretty much the same after remastering. I don't see compression as a problem at all in classical music.

I'd actually appreciate hearing you speak about examples of bad mastering in classical music that you've heard and perhaps compared with earlier releases... specifically if you have noticed obvious problems with sound quality, like compression artifacts. Do you have any examples of pumping or noise being pulled up from ham handed compression? I would be very interested in hearing examples of that.

Here's one: While I find the song catchy, I can't stand the engineering on it!
Lots of melody pumping in the refrains(40 sec. in):




As for this comment?

"Sonic, there's no need for any visual proof.
We've already explained that waveforms don't
represent sound quality accurately. Pictures of
sound are a symbolic representation, not a true
one."

v v v (look down)