Dynamic IEMs worse for tinnitus than armatures? I am starting to think so.

[tman1]

In fact I am now fairly convinced that this is the case. I have somewhat mild tinnitus that gets better and worse depending on whether I've been recently exposed to concerts, listening to headphones, etc.  I had a pair of Soundmagic PL50s (armature) a while back and didn't notice it too much, then when one earpiece stopped working I switched to my backup dynamic Koss IEMs and noticed the tinnitus got worse after listening. I figured this may have been because they were more harsh/trebley.
 
Then I got some MEE A151s (armature), and wasn't crazy about them due to the lack of bass impact, so I got some Brainwavz M2 dynamics. I went back to the A151s for a recent cross-country flight since they isolate a little better and I kept using them for a while and didn't notice the tinnitus much. Then an earpiece on THOSE starting going bad so I recently switched back to the M2s and IMMEDIATELY noticed that the tinnitus got obviously worse after listening.
 
So it has happened twice now. The M2s are fairly "dark" phones so I know it is not due to excess treble. Some may say that the M2s don't isolate quite as well as the A151s and so I am probably turning them up louder and THAT is causing the problem, but I don't think so. The difference in isolation is not that great and I have been careful to keep the volume at reasonable levels, lower than I would like, and my ears are still ringing as I type this in my office. I used the A151s on a plane all the way across country and don't remember thinking about the tinnitus and now with the M2s it is much worse after only a short listening time.
 
Has anyone else noticed this? I am now guessing that the more dynamic (in terms of impact, not physical design) phones pound the air against the eardrums harder, and that the lack of dynamics from the armatures, while not perfect for rock, are actually better for your ears for this reason.
 
I need to send the A151s back for repair but I think once I get them back I will stick with armatures even though I prefer a more dynamic sound. I am a little leery of using the M2s at all now since the tinnitus is definitely noticeably worse, even hours after listening.
 
Thoughts????
 

I did a search and found one example where someone else had a similar experience, so I am not the only one:
 
Quote: Originally Posted by anodyne
 
I have a pair of Cresyn C750 buds. They had an accident and I can now with my own eyes see the little rectangular unit the Korean makers of this odd-ish brand call a "micro-max transducer" – which I believe is what is more commonly known as an armature driver. I liked the sound quality the gave me for about €35, but what I liked most was the listening comfort. I have slight tinnitus, but I could use these for hours on end without any discomfort. I'm guessing that there's something about the armature->acoustic filter design that is less violent on the eardrums than a traditional driver. The distributor seems to have to dropped Cresyn here in Sweden, there are a few on sale but I'd like to look for more options and maybe a small step up. I want something that I can carry daily without worrying too much about snags. Maybe somewhere in the €50-70 range. Any ideas?

 

[eke2k6]

I guess because dynamic drivers physically move more air, it causes your tympanic membrane (eardrum) to flex more, heightening your tinnitus.

 

[nehcrow]

Oh ****, seriously?
I'm a little worried now, can anyone confirm this?

 

[average_joe]

Here is an excerpt from my dynamic driver vs. balanced armature driver section of my custom IEM information post:
 
 
 

There are two types of drivers that are used for IEM manufacture, dynamic drivers which work the same way a speaker in your car, home, TV, or just about everything else and balanced armature drivers which are used in hearing aids.  They both reproduce sound via different methods with different types of forces (Maxwell force for BAs vs. Lorentz force for dynamic drivers)

 
 
Not sure if this has an effect on tinitus, but it may...

 

[dnullify]

As a moderate tinnitus sufferer I've reached the conclusion that it is sound signatures that spike of tinnitus "fits" for me. I cant tolerate anything bright or fatiguing, nothing with sharp or edgy treble. I've heard one or two BA phones that produce those frequencies as well as some dynamic drivers. I'm actually convinced that my old pair of grados in combination with far too many rock shows without hearing protection is what really set mine off. That and permanent damage caused by TMJ I've been dealing with since I was 16.


I wouldnt discount dynamic drivers though. Thee low and sweet signatures seem to be the least fatiguing, and this the best for tinnitus. I'm really enjoying the JVC fx-101s at the moment.

I can say that in my case it's really likely to not have anything to do with moving air, as I do enjoy the bass impact of good dynamic drivers with seemingly little consequence.


Get used to listening at lower than average volumes. Your brain will adjust to some degree, even though you will think that the volume isn't high enough to Sound good.
Tinnitus just makes finding good headphones a little harder. Stay away from the JVC fx40s for now I think. After repeatedly testing them out in between burn in I'm seriously considering taking a few months away from headphones in general!

Everyone else please do wear hearing protection to concerts regardless of how much you paid for the tickets, or how much you like the band. Everyone has different thresholds for hearing damage. My brother and father have been to exactly the same concerts as I have and yet I'm the only one with tinnitus.

 

[JohannLiebert]

My Dap has an eu volume limit. 80% of the Volume is enough for me. is this loud enough to get tinnitus over years?

 

[H20Fidelity]

I have minor tinnitus in my right ear, we don't know why, I woke up one night about six months ago (before I even started using IEM's) with an intense ringing in my ear which stayed for many days and never went away completely. This comes and goes as it pleases. All I have to do is listen and it's there really, I can stop it for a minute by plugging up my ear then letting go. I find brighter / cheap dynamic drivers set it off more especially at high volumes, I cannot say BA's like my TF10 give out the frequency that get's it ringing my bells. Definitely the highs and sibilant phones seem to annoy it. The JVC FX1X's high end really set it off. But it's very minor in every day life and I forget it's there through out the day unless my environment is really quite 

Half the reason I started listening to music was to ignore it while laying down at night.

 

[dnullify]

Tinnitus is a result of scar tissue or trauma to your aural nerve, which causes interference that you sense as ringing or occasional whooshing sounds. There's a list of potential causes that can lead to this, and it's hard to pin down the direct causes. In most cases this is permanent.

I've found a few seconds of white noise played 2-3 inches from my ear through IEMs at low volume actually seems to have a muffling effect. 5 seconds lasts hours. Might just be my brain

 

[tman1]

Quote:

Oh ****, seriously?
I'm a little worried now, can anyone confirm this?

 
Do you have tinnitus? If not I wouldn't worry about it too much other than the usual precaution of not listening too loud/long.
 
I'm pretty sure mine is caused by many rock concerts combined with headphone listening.
 
I'm not expecting this to be able to be confirmed here, just seeing if there is any more anecdotal evidence out there.

 

[JK1]

Tinnitus can be caused (or worsened) by nutritional deficiencies of vitamin B12, magnesium, or zinc.

 

[tman1]

Quote:

Tinnitus can be caused (or worsened) by nutritional deficiencies of vitamin B12, magnesium, or zinc.

I take a B Complex every day, moreso to make up the deficiency caused by beer.
 
Caffeine, alcohol, and aspirin also supposedly can make it worse, but I am not giving up the first two. Regardless, it definitely gets worse after listening to the M2's. I would love to see a study on people with tinnitus comparing the effects of different types of headphones.

 

[Inks]

There is no difference, decibels are decibels, whether from a dynamic or BA, whether from the environment or trapped inside your ear in IEMs. Thing is, most dynamics don't isolate as well, so you have to turn them up higher to compensate. Even if you're being careful about the difference in decibels,  it's harder to perceive with all the extra noise due to less isolation. M2s don't isolate that much IME, A151s which presumably isolate like my 161, isolate much better. 
 
Then there is the physical aspect to consider, B12, zinc and magnesium levels may be dropping without knowing and yet you think it's the IEM difference. 
 
Unless you're in a controlled environment, the claim that dynamics cause a bigger effect on tinnitus doesn't hold any ground. 

 

[dnullify]

I think there's a distinction here that's being overlooked.
 
I believe (correct me if i'm wrong) that the question is whether BA or Dynamic drivers cause different amounts of flare ups within preexisting tinnitus, vs which can lead to/cause more permanent damage.
 
For those non-tinnitus people, don't be scarred off of one driver or another. Both have the ability to cause hearing damage and tinnitus if you listen to them above comfortable listening levels for extended periods of time, just the same as if you go to too many rock concerts without adequate hearing protection.
 
Buy some concert ear plugs, and listen to your headphones at the lowest volume you are comfortable with and you'll be fine.

 

[Inks]

Yup and I answered that. 
 
I agree with the rest of your points. 

 

[tman1]

Quote:

I think there's a distinction here that's being overlooked.
 
I believe (correct me if i'm wrong) that the question is whether BA or Dynamic drivers cause different amounts of flare ups within preexisting tinnitus, vs which can lead to/cause more permanent damage.
 
For those non-tinnitus people, don't be scarred off of one driver or another. Both have the ability to cause hearing damage and tinnitus if you listen to them above comfortable listening levels for extended periods of time, just the same as if you go to too many rock concerts without adequate hearing protection.
 
Buy some concert ear plugs, and listen to your headphones at the lowest volume you are comfortable with and you'll be fine.

 
Correct, I am talking about instigating pre-existing mild tinnitus.
 
I am sure it is not due to coincidentally lowering levels of any vitamins or mineral in my bloodstream. It was obviously directly a result of listening to the headphones, since it was OK beforehand, and when I came out of the DC metro and took them out it had flared up. And the same has happened since then.
 
I did mention the isolation issue in the original post and will grant that I can't completely rule that out. BTW I don't know that you can assume the A151 isolates the same as the A161 since by looking at the pictures it is a completely different design.
 
And yes those "audiophile" ear plugs may be the best $10 I've ever spent. Essential for many shows.