DX220 A new view to your music. *** Latest Firmware: 1.19 Local *** Link for User Guide 1st Page. AMP9 Now available! And DC01.
Feb 15, 2020 at 6:23 PM Post #11,026 of 13,285

leftside

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Isn't the general concensus about Sabre DACs is brighter than neutral ?
DAC chips are super cheap. There's a lot more to a DAP than just it's DAC chip.
 
Feb 15, 2020 at 7:09 PM Post #11,027 of 13,285

flarex3

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But what the people were saying just now is that for headphones such as the Focal Elegia, a desktop is really the way to get the best sound out of them, and this is unlikely to be achieved with any DAP or smartphone (not sure about the EX AMP editions). So the fact that you claim you don't hear an impressive step up from the Mojo (which is an excellent source that also punches above its price point), is not necessarily anything negative about the DX220.

Even if neither DX220 and Galaxy S10 can drive Elegia as good as a destkop amp would, DX220 should still be many steps above the S10. The difference should be day and night, shouldn't it ?

I open the same audio file on UAPP bit perfect in both devices. I listen to 30 seconds of the track from my S10. Than I connect the Elegia's cable to DX220 and listen to the same part.
The difference is there but DX220 is not obviously better at all. The soundstage is bigger but the clarity is not improved or even dirtier.
It is definetly possible there are issues with other parts of the system so DX220 is not being directly blamed here. But really interesting. I don't know :thinking:
 
Feb 15, 2020 at 8:20 PM Post #11,028 of 13,285

fokta

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Even if neither DX220 and Galaxy S10 can drive Elegia as good as a destkop amp would, DX220 should still be many steps above the S10. The difference should be day and night, shouldn't it ?

I open the same audio file on UAPP bit perfect in both devices. I listen to 30 seconds of the track from my S10. Than I connect the Elegia's cable to DX220 and listen to the same part.
The difference is there but DX220 is not obviously better at all. The soundstage is bigger but the clarity is not improved or even dirtier.
It is definetly possible there are issues with other parts of the system so DX220 is not being directly blamed here. But really interesting. I don't know :thinking:
well... there's no body needs to blame then... it just your ear and perspective is in role.
Trust ur ear...

For me, using Vampire Weekend's Album, Father of the bride, the sound is noticeable different in 3 device...
20200216_081625.jpg


- DX220 via optic to D30 => A30 (Burson V5ii D) : everything seem authoritative, Soundstage was the highlight, every frequency seem clear and tight, the separation is noticeable... Warm, yet Transparency still keep up.

-DX229 direct : Fluidity seems the Highlight, needs volume to 88 (Mango OS) for my ear feel the same (can be louder...)

- Same song, from NOTE 8 with UAPP, same warm, but in term of SQ will be almost the same marginal... but SOUNDSTAGE, separation, Micro detail in background it will be unnoticeable in (assuming) same volume, based from my ear...

Again... if you still presumed the same... (assuming nothing is wrong with the device)... well, need to look around...

Regarding Focal, IMO, we need more Power, to fully drive the cans... but keep in mind, must in the right Volt and Ampere, or it will fry the driver...

just my 25 cent
 
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Feb 15, 2020 at 8:51 PM Post #11,029 of 13,285

edwardsean

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ES9028PRO is neutral and not bright.
There are plenty of different devices with an implemented ES9028PRO and reviews telling a different story.

Isn't the general concensus about Sabre DACs is brighter than neutral ?

DAC chips are super cheap. There's a lot more to a DAP than just it's DAC chip.

Different DAC chips have different sounds. How could they not. The difference is not as dramatic as the difference between all delta-sigma convertors vs. R2R, FPGA, etc., but there are reasons stereotypes set in: ESS = brighter/AKM = warmer.

At the same time, you've never heard a DAC chip. If you put one up to your ear, maybe you can hear the ocean.

Rupert Neve, says, "Great digital begins and ends in analog." That's the right picture to have in your mind. The choice of DAC chip, or esp. conversion method, does matter! It's at the beating heart of the sonic body. But, consider how many other critical parts and systems surround the digital "heart," all shaping the total sound.
 
Feb 16, 2020 at 6:48 AM Post #11,032 of 13,285

Christoph

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Isn't the general concensus about Sabre DACs is brighter than neutral ?

As others already explained, you hear never a DAC chip alone, always the implementation including the subsequent analoge amplifying stage etc.

I've never heard of this general consensus Sabre DACs are brighter than neutral, therefore i disagree.

If you can provide me some references (e.g. reviews of different DAC devices) proving this bright in general statement, i'm curious if i have missed anything major here.

What i've heard and read about Sabre DACs in general is, and this i can underline from my own experience because i've heard a couple of Sabre DACs and own two of them (e.g. a Benchmark DAC3 HGC as a desktop reference), they can be - depending on the actual implementation - tend to be analytical and 'cool' in comparsion to a slightly warmer sound of other DAC chips e.g. like AK.
But analytical or cool is not bright, or have you mixed up this?

Again, if your DX220 sounds bright to you, it must be the pairing with your specific headphones, but its not the DX220 itself that is bright in general. Test it with different headphones is my advice.

From my DX220 and also my Benchmark DAC3 HGC i can say, they both reproduce the music in a neutral way without emphasising the heights or another specific frequency spectrum. Both are also able to deliver proper lower and lowest frequencies as a counterpart if the music contains such frequencies.
 
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Feb 16, 2020 at 7:06 AM Post #11,033 of 13,285

Christoph

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DAC chips are super cheap. There's a lot more to a DAP than just it's DAC chip.

It's true that there is a lot more than just the DAC chip.
That DAC chips are cheap might be true for most of them (however what exactly do you call 'super' cheap?), but not for the Sabre Pro series as it is the flagship and this is comparable pricey.
The ES9038 Pro is the current flagship, the ES9028PRO is the predecessor and still selling around $50 at the moment. Big companies will get better prices for sure, but they are still away from super cheap.
 
Feb 16, 2020 at 2:17 PM Post #11,034 of 13,285

jirams

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Can a kind member explain to me the current options on the AMP8? I have a standard AMP8 purchased from iBasso.
What are the variants and where are these obtained?
Thanks.
 
Feb 17, 2020 at 2:30 AM Post #11,035 of 13,285

iMongui

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Can a kind member explain to me the current options on the AMP8? I have a standard AMP8 purchased from iBasso.
What are the variants and where are these obtained?
Thanks.
Basically you can buy a modded one to Fidelizer, you can send yours and then he will modify this one or you can wait for a second hand amp8ex. Well, there was a third one but it expired few days ago and you needed to live in Japan so...

Then you can find a local modder and ask to mod this amp but using their own skills... The easiest is to send your amp8 to Fidelizer, maybe its not the cheapest but its the safest for sure
 
Feb 17, 2020 at 3:18 AM Post #11,036 of 13,285

Whitigir

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Es9028Pro is actually released as a successor to ES9018S from last generation. It is direct drop in pins compatible

The ES9038Pro is released as the next flagship side to side with ES9028Pro. The ES9038Pro Boast the Industrial highest Dynamic ratio for any Sigma Delta. It was a statement pieces from ESS that they have surpassed the current modern standards

AKM wanted to tackled that as a challenge and so a year after they released AK4499EQ that also achieves Similar Dynamic range. Needless to say, both of these consumes a huge amount of power...surprisingly they are both finding their ways into portable devices

But it isn’t all about the DAC itself. It is everything else as a whole system too! For example, a lotus Elise uses Camry V6 engine but tuned and implemented especially for performances. It is a lot different than being inside a Camry, you wouldn’t even know the Elise is using Camry engine ....LOL.
 
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Feb 17, 2020 at 8:53 AM Post #11,040 of 13,285

flarex3

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Something I realized: a DAP + Closed back headphone setup is far from being portable. Very bulky to carry, very hard to control the wires, especially awkward in public transport etc. And when there is some outside noise the sound quality really degrades and wearing a wireless headphone makes much more sense for outdoor usage.

Haven't tried DAP + IEM yet, maybe it is more suitable for portable usage.
 

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