[icefalkon]

What is that?
I know what that is - it's music.
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What is that? A Twisted Sister pin on your uniform?...
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I wanna rock!!!

Oh Yeah,
Tim

LOL dude, I just spit coffee out all over! HA!

 

[csglinux]

Here are a few brief thoughts on the DX220, plus a couple of questions for you DAP experts.

A quick background and preamble...
In full and fair disclosure I should say I was not a fan of the DX200. I found the volume control knob awkward and badly designed. As an early DX200 owner I found it painful to install 3rd party (streaming) music apps. But most of all, the DX200 had a noticeable (and easily measurable) sub-bass roll-off that left it sounding a little lifeless. I tried endless hours of burn-in and various custom firmwares from Windows X but nothing resolved that issue, so I didn't keep the DX200 for very long and never regretted parting with it.

I'm happy to report the DX220 has fixed all those issues I had with DX200. It works great and it sounds fantastic I'm not saying it's entirely without its flaws (battery life could be better and I don't really need a hand-warmer in Southern California), but all DAPs have flaws and any issues I've so far discovered with the DX220 are way less significant than the issues I have or have had with any other DAP. I really like the DX220 and will go out on a limb to say that based on my experience so far it both sounds and looks to be the best DAP you can buy right now at any price. Clearly I can't post statements like that on the A&K thread or I'll get death threats and get banned from headfi, but look at the spec comparison with the other TOTL competitors, including A&K:

DX220 (SE): SNR 123 dB, THD+N 0.00035% (32 Ohm load), 0.00031% (no load), Crosstalk: -117dB. (BAL): SNR 125 dB, THD+N 0.0002% (32 Ohm load), 0.00018% (no load), Crosstalk -119 dB. (LO): 0.00035% (no load), Crosstalk: -116 dB. Frequency Response: 10HZ-45KHZ+/-0.3dB, Z-out 0.3 Ohm. Dual ES9028PRO DAC (8 DACs in parallel for each channel).

Lotoo Paw Gold Touch (SE): SNR: 123 dB, THD+N: 0.00045%, Z-out?

A&Ultima SP1000 SNR 120 dB, THD+N 0.0005%, Output 2.2Vrms, z-out 2 Ohm, ±0.061dB from 20Hz~20kHz.

A&Ultima SP2000 SNR 124 dB, THD+N 0.0005%, Output 23.0Vrms, z-out 1.5 Ohm?, ±0.061dB from 20Hz~20kHz.

Cayin N8 (SE): SNR 120 dB, THD+N 0.0008%, Crosstalk: -75dB. (BAL): SNR 122 dB, THD+N 0.0006%, Crosstalk -110 dB. Frequency Response: 20HZ-20KHZ+/-0.2dB, Z-out <=0.6 Ohm.

Questyle QPM SNR 108dB, 0.00055% THD+N (SE), 110 dB, 0.00049% (BAL), Z-out = 0.1 Ohm, 74 mW into 32 Ohm (SE), 161 mW (bal), AKM AK4490 DAC.

Note that the above specs relate to single-ended (SE) output unless otherwise stated (balanced-out = BAL).

I've not yet heard the Lotoo Paw Gold Touch and I do like the idea of a 2 second boot-up time, but a) its known specs are lower than those of the DX220, b) it can't stream and c) I have been utterly unable (despite requests to Lotoo and Lotoo distributors) to determine what its output impedance is. Anybody know? Or anybody own one and able to measure it for me?

I've also not yet heard the QPM or SP2000. I am hoping to audition both in two weeks at the SoCal Canjam. But in both cases, their specs are still inferior to those of the DX220, with the only exception being SNR for the SP2000 which is 1 dB higher than the SE output of the DX220. But bear in mind, the DX220 are actual measurements from the device, not just chip OEM specs, and also that the DX220 has a z-out of 0.3 Ohm, whereas the SE output of the SP2000 and SP1000 are 1.5 Ohm and 2 Ohm, respectively, which, while not disastrous, are disappointing for devices that cost 3.5 times the price of a DX220. (For the headphones I own, these z-outs are too high. See here: https://www.head-fi.org/threads/audio-measurements-on-a-headfi-budget.893084/page-2#post-14956334.)

So, questions for you DAP experts:

1) Is there a TOTL DAP I missed from my list that out-performs the DX220? If so, what is it?
2) Those that have heard any of the above (or that magic TOTL DAP that was missing from my list) - what DAP have you heard that sounds better than the DX220 and what exactly was it about the sound that was better?

I don't want to start any flame wars with item 2, but I am interested to understand why somebody might prefer the sound of a different DAP which, at least on paper, would have inferior specs to those of the DX220. It could be that there's some other important metric we're not considering in the above specs, e.g., crossover or intermodulation distortion, noise-floor modulation, etc. Nebulous comments such as "DAP X is more transparent and has a more holographic, 3D sound stage, etc., etc." might be an interesting starting point, but I'd like to pinpoint why, because conclusions like that can easily be reached through the placebo effect of having paid 3-4 times the price for DAP X.

I'd be interested to hear thoughts on/comparisons with any other (better?) DAPS...

 

[artpiggo]

@csglinux welcome to dx220 club. I don't think I can answer the questions though since I didn't own other DAPs.

However, have you ever swapped the amp module? Just curious.

 

[csglinux]

@csglinux welcome to dx220 club.

Thanks

However, have you ever swapped the amp module? Just curious.

Not yet on the DX220, no, but I'd appreciate any thoughts as to why I might want to. (I don't need any more power and I'm not interested in re-cabling all my headphones with Sony 4.4 mm plugs.)

 

[514077]

Here are a few brief thoughts on the DX220, plus a couple of questions for you DAP experts.

A quick background and preamble...
In full and fair disclosure I should say I was not a fan of the DX200. I found the volume control knob awkward and badly designed. As an early DX200 owner I found it painful to install 3rd party (streaming) music apps. But most of all, the DX200 had a noticeable (and easily measurable) sub-bass roll-off that left it sounding a little lifeless. I tried endless hours of burn-in and various custom firmwares from Windows X but nothing resolved that issue, so I didn't keep the DX200 for very long and never regretted parting with it.

I'm happy to report the DX220 has fixed all those issues I had with DX200. It works great and it sounds fantastic I'm not saying it's entirely without its flaws (battery life could be better and I don't really need a hand-warmer in Southern California), but all DAPs have flaws and any issues I've so far discovered with the DX220 are way less significant than the issues I have or have had with any other DAP. I really like the DX220 and will go out on a limb to say that based on my experience so far it both sounds and looks to be the best DAP you can buy right now at any price. Clearly I can't post statements like that on the A&K thread or I'll get death threats and get banned from headfi, but look at the spec comparison with the other TOTL competitors, including A&K:

DX220 (SE): SNR 123 dB, THD+N 0.00035% (32 Ohm load), 0.00031% (no load), Crosstalk: -117dB. (BAL): SNR 125 dB, THD+N 0.0002% (32 Ohm load), 0.00018% (no load), Crosstalk -119 dB. (LO): 0.00035% (no load), Crosstalk: -116 dB. Frequency Response: 10HZ-45KHZ+/-0.3dB, Z-out 0.3 Ohm. Dual ES9028PRO DAC (8 DACs in parallel for each channel).

Lotoo Paw Gold Touch (SE): SNR: 123 dB, THD+N: 0.00045%, Z-out?

A&Ultima SP1000 SNR 120 dB, THD+N 0.0005%, Output 2.2Vrms, z-out 2 Ohm, ±0.061dB from 20Hz~20kHz.

A&Ultima SP2000 SNR 124 dB, THD+N 0.0005%, Output 23.0Vrms, z-out 1.5 Ohm?, ±0.061dB from 20Hz~20kHz.

Cayin N8 (SE): SNR 120 dB, THD+N 0.0008%, Crosstalk: -75dB. (BAL): SNR 122 dB, THD+N 0.0006%, Crosstalk -110 dB. Frequency Response: 20HZ-20KHZ+/-0.2dB, Z-out <=0.6 Ohm.

Questyle QPM SNR 108dB, 0.00055% THD+N (SE), 110 dB, 0.00049% (BAL), Z-out = 0.1 Ohm, 74 mW into 32 Ohm (SE), 161 mW (bal), AKM AK4490 DAC.

Note that the above specs relate to single-ended (SE) output unless otherwise stated (balanced-out = BAL).

I've not yet heard the Lotoo Paw Gold Touch and I do like the idea of a 2 second boot-up time, but a) its known specs are lower than those of the DX220, b) it can't stream and c) I have been utterly unable (despite requests to Lotoo and Lotoo distributors) to determine what its output impedance is. Anybody know? Or anybody own one and able to measure it for me?

I've also not yet heard the QPM or SP2000. I am hoping to audition both in two weeks at the SoCal Canjam. But in both cases, their specs are still inferior to those of the DX220, with the only exception being SNR for the SP2000 which is 1 dB higher than the SE output of the DX220. But bear in mind, the DX220 are actual measurements from the device, not just chip OEM specs, and also that the DX220 has a z-out of 0.3 Ohm, whereas the SE output of the SP2000 and SP1000 are 1.5 Ohm and 2 Ohm, respectively, which, while not disastrous, are disappointing for devices that cost 3.5 times the price of a DX220. (For the headphones I own, these z-outs are too high. See here: https://www.head-fi.org/threads/audio-measurements-on-a-headfi-budget.893084/page-2#post-14956334.)

So, questions for you DAP experts:

1) Is there a TOTL DAP I missed from my list that out-performs the DX220? If so, what is it?
2) Those that have heard any of the above (or that magic TOTL DAP that was missing from my list) - what DAP have you heard that sounds better than the DX220 and what exactly was it about the sound that was better?

I don't want to start any flame wars with item 2, but I am interested to understand why somebody might prefer the sound of a different DAP which, at least on paper, would have inferior specs to those of the DX220. It could be that there's some other important metric we're not considering in the above specs, e.g., crossover or intermodulation distortion, noise-floor modulation, etc. Nebulous comments such as "DAP X is more transparent and has a more holographic, 3D sound stage, etc., etc." might be an interesting starting point, but I'd like to pinpoint why, because conclusions like that can easily be reached through the placebo effect of having paid 3-4 times the price for DAP X.

I'd be interested to hear thoughts on/comparisons with any other (better?) DAPS...

One thing about the DX220? Sounds great on paper, as you say. And I'm certainly disappointed in the poor showing of the new QPM. But, is it a touch screen based system? Or are there some controls that can be used as well?

 

[csglinux]

One thing about the DX220? Sounds great on paper, as you say. And I'm certainly disappointed in the poor showing of the new QPM. But, is it a touch screen based system? Or are there some controls that can be used as well?

I'll have to reserve judgement on the QPM for another couple of weeks. But I think its price point is double what it should be. I feel for Questyle, because I think they're pricing themselves out of the market.

The DX220 does have hardware volume control, play/pause, track next/fast-forward/back/rewind. But it's primarily touchscreen and unless I'm mistaken (or somebody knows of some clever tweak or Android app to circumvent this?), it might be a bit awkward for non-sighted folks

 

[artpiggo]

I'll have to reserve judgement on the QPM for another couple of weeks. But I think its price point is double what it should be. I feel for Questyle, because I think they're pricing themselves out of the market.

The DX220 does have hardware volume control, play/pause, track next/fast-forward/back/rewind. But it's primarily touchscreen and unless I'm mistaken (or somebody knows of some clever tweak or Android app to circumvent this?), it might be a bit awkward for non-sighted folks

Try Lurker add on. This is for having google play store installed.

 

[csglinux]

Try Lurker add on. This is for having google play store installed.

Thanks @artpiggo. Do you know if there's anything in the Play Store that would help visually-impaired folks navigate an Android DAP?

 

[artpiggo]

Thanks @artpiggo. Do you know if there's anything in the Play Store that would help visually-impaired folks navigate an Android DAP?

It shall be difficult though. Since the DAP has no microphone in order to use voice to navigate instead of visual.

 

[514077]

It seems to have the basic play and track </> controls. All it would really need is a way to select folders, and I think I could use it, I think. Even an app that might beep in the earphones for response might do it. Guess I'll have to look for a solution before parting with money.

 

[leftside]

Sure is nice to finally have a decent portable system for the summer months in the yard.

 

[Whitigir]

Here are a few brief thoughts on the DX220, plus a couple of questions for you DAP experts.

A quick background and preamble...
In full and fair disclosure I should say I was not a fan of the DX200. I found the volume control knob awkward and badly designed. As an early DX200 owner I found it painful to install 3rd party (streaming) music apps. But most of all, the DX200 had a noticeable (and easily measurable) sub-bass roll-off that left it sounding a little lifeless. I tried endless hours of burn-in and various custom firmwares from Windows X but nothing resolved that issue, so I didn't keep the DX200 for very long and never regretted parting with it.

I'm happy to report the DX220 has fixed all those issues I had with DX200. It works great and it sounds fantastic I'm not saying it's entirely without its flaws (battery life could be better and I don't really need a hand-warmer in Southern California), but all DAPs have flaws and any issues I've so far discovered with the DX220 are way less significant than the issues I have or have had with any other DAP. I really like the DX220 and will go out on a limb to say that based on my experience so far it both sounds and looks to be the best DAP you can buy right now at any price. Clearly I can't post statements like that on the A&K thread or I'll get death threats and get banned from headfi, but look at the spec comparison with the other TOTL competitors, including A&K:

DX220 (SE): SNR 123 dB, THD+N 0.00035% (32 Ohm load), 0.00031% (no load), Crosstalk: -117dB. (BAL): SNR 125 dB, THD+N 0.0002% (32 Ohm load), 0.00018% (no load), Crosstalk -119 dB. (LO): 0.00035% (no load), Crosstalk: -116 dB. Frequency Response: 10HZ-45KHZ+/-0.3dB, Z-out 0.3 Ohm. Dual ES9028PRO DAC (8 DACs in parallel for each channel).

Lotoo Paw Gold Touch (SE): SNR: 123 dB, THD+N: 0.00045%, Z-out?

A&Ultima SP1000 SNR 120 dB, THD+N 0.0005%, Output 2.2Vrms, z-out 2 Ohm, ±0.061dB from 20Hz~20kHz.

A&Ultima SP2000 SNR 124 dB, THD+N 0.0005%, Output 23.0Vrms, z-out 1.5 Ohm?, ±0.061dB from 20Hz~20kHz.

Cayin N8 (SE): SNR 120 dB, THD+N 0.0008%, Crosstalk: -75dB. (BAL): SNR 122 dB, THD+N 0.0006%, Crosstalk -110 dB. Frequency Response: 20HZ-20KHZ+/-0.2dB, Z-out <=0.6 Ohm.

Questyle QPM SNR 108dB, 0.00055% THD+N (SE), 110 dB, 0.00049% (BAL), Z-out = 0.1 Ohm, 74 mW into 32 Ohm (SE), 161 mW (bal), AKM AK4490 DAC.

Note that the above specs relate to single-ended (SE) output unless otherwise stated (balanced-out = BAL).

I've not yet heard the Lotoo Paw Gold Touch and I do like the idea of a 2 second boot-up time, but a) its known specs are lower than those of the DX220, b) it can't stream and c) I have been utterly unable (despite requests to Lotoo and Lotoo distributors) to determine what its output impedance is. Anybody know? Or anybody own one and able to measure it for me?

I've also not yet heard the QPM or SP2000. I am hoping to audition both in two weeks at the SoCal Canjam. But in both cases, their specs are still inferior to those of the DX220, with the only exception being SNR for the SP2000 which is 1 dB higher than the SE output of the DX220. But bear in mind, the DX220 are actual measurements from the device, not just chip OEM specs, and also that the DX220 has a z-out of 0.3 Ohm, whereas the SE output of the SP2000 and SP1000 are 1.5 Ohm and 2 Ohm, respectively, which, while not disastrous, are disappointing for devices that cost 3.5 times the price of a DX220. (For the headphones I own, these z-outs are too high. See here: https://www.head-fi.org/threads/audio-measurements-on-a-headfi-budget.893084/page-2#post-14956334.)

So, questions for you DAP experts:

1) Is there a TOTL DAP I missed from my list that out-performs the DX220? If so, what is it?
2) Those that have heard any of the above (or that magic TOTL DAP that was missing from my list) - what DAP have you heard that sounds better than the DX220 and what exactly was it about the sound that was better?

I don't want to start any flame wars with item 2, but I am interested to understand why somebody might prefer the sound of a different DAP which, at least on paper, would have inferior specs to those of the DX220. It could be that there's some other important metric we're not considering in the above specs, e.g., crossover or intermodulation distortion, noise-floor modulation, etc. Nebulous comments such as "DAP X is more transparent and has a more holographic, 3D sound stage, etc., etc." might be an interesting starting point, but I'd like to pinpoint why, because conclusions like that can easily be reached through the placebo effect of having paid 3-4 times the price for DAP X.

I'd be interested to hear thoughts on/comparisons with any other (better?) DAPS...

I tried the LPGT and N8....honestly, it is all about preferences. They are on the same tier. I also had wm1Z, and DX200 could only compare with Amp8, but Dx200ti-EX and Dx220EX are all aimed to out perform it, and it did . From my own experiences, and I have experiences many different things ....I would say that In My Opinion and...
.
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As I always said, to outperform DX200/220 ? There is DMP-Z1, and that is about it. But when you threading over here, preferences would play a role as well

 

[toughnut]

Sure is nice to finally have a decent portable system for the summer months in the yard.

It’s more suited for winter imo.

 

[liquidrats]

Oriolus MKII is an absolutely win in depth department with DX220. The treble has extended so much forward too, that I have to use to tune it down with spiral dot.

 

[panasonicst60]

I had mine on for about 4hrs with screen off with nothing playing and the battery dropped to 76% from 100%. Not good at all. I do have the @Lurker0 firmware installed. I was in pure Mango. Very strange...