DX200=Affordable High End Audio. Dual ES9028Pro dacs. AMP1, AMP3, AMP5, AMP7 & AMP8 ***Firmware support now up for AMP9***
Aug 26, 2017 at 5:14 PM Post #7,936 of 21,929

gstepic

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I am curious if each line out needs to be broken in separately. I would not think so but listening to Beyerdynamic T5P 2g is markedly better with balanced cables compared to using SE connection with amp1. Of course the more obvious difference maker is probably the cables (LQi VODA/CQ7) with the balanced output. I probably only have a few hours listening time with the SE output while around 150 with the balanced output. When I first got the DX200 I broke it in using the Sennheiser HD800 S which I received at the same time. All my break in was the Sennheiser phones using the balanced output. When I used the SE input with the T5P I was disappointed with the sound but figured the DX200 needed to be broken in more. I thought the Sennheiser and Beyerdymiac phones were close to the same in quality per reviews. I am pleasantly surprised how much better the T5ps sound with the balanced output, almost making me rethink keeping the HD800S. This experience makes me all the more curious to see the difference amp3 makes.

I am a little disappointed (but not surprised) I can't use a wired connection to my car sound system with amp3 but it dawned in me I should be able to use Bluetooth.
 
Aug 26, 2017 at 7:08 PM Post #7,938 of 21,929
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I am curious if each line out needs to be broken in separately. I would not think so but listening to Beyerdynamic T5P 2g is markedly better with balanced cables compared to using SE connection with amp1. Of course the more obvious difference maker is probably the cables (LQi VODA/CQ7) with the balanced output. I probably only have a few hours listening time with the SE output while around 150 with the balanced output. When I first got the DX200 I broke it in using the Sennheiser HD800 S which I received at the same time. All my break in was the Sennheiser phones using the balanced output. When I used the SE input with the T5P I was disappointed with the sound but figured the DX200 needed to be broken in more. I thought the Sennheiser and Beyerdymiac phones were close to the same in quality per reviews. I am pleasantly surprised how much better the T5ps sound with the balanced output, almost making me rethink keeping the HD800S. This experience makes me all the more curious to see the difference amp3 makes.

I am a little disappointed (but not surprised) I can't use a wired connection to my car sound system with amp3 but it dawned in me I should be able to use Bluetooth.

I assume you meant "each headphone out needs to be broken in separately."? Actually, it does NOT, based on AMP1 module architecture and also the reason why iBasso included 2.5mm BAL burn in cable. In case if you missed it, you don't need to use your headphones to do initial burn in of AMP modules, the burn in cable has a load termination to emulate the headphone driver, and according to iBasso by using this BAL 2.5mm burn-in load - both SE and BAL sides of the circuit get "excercised". So, you are killing two birds with one stone.

Now, regarding the difference in sound you hear between SE and BAL outputs, cable could be a contributing factor since I assume you are using stock 3.5mm SE cable vs aftermarket 2.5mm BAL cable with your T5p.2. But the biggest contributing factor will be the output voltage difference and the response of Tesla drivers considering SE has 3Vrms vs BAL 6Vrms. Again, I'm making an assumption you are switching between the cables, or maybe you are using one balanced cable and 2.5mm to 3.5mm adapter? That will be better for comparison, to keep less variables.

Don't know how much listening you have done with AMP3 in comparison to AMP1 (BAL out, driving T5p.2), but I found while both AMP3 and AMP1 drive T5p.2 to their full potential, AMP3 has a blacker background and a little more transparency with a touch brighter tonality of upper mids and more sparkle in treble (this is specific to T5p 2nd gen). I was pleasantly surprised that although both of them have the same high power BAL output, AMP3 has a cleaner transient of notes with a blacker background which indicates a better pair up with these demanding Tesla drivers. Oh, and I'm using TWag v3 pure silver balanced cable with T5p.2.

I tested TIA Fourte, CFA VEGA, and Beyer T5p 2nd gen, and in every case preferred AMP3, though for TIA Fourte (as well as U18) I like pair up with AMP2 very much too.

ibasso_amp3-04.jpg


ibasso_amp3-03.jpg
 
Aug 26, 2017 at 7:20 PM Post #7,939 of 21,929

jamato8

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I assume you meant "each headphone out needs to be broken in separately."? Actually, it does NOT, based on AMP1 module architecture and also the reason why iBasso included 2.5mm BAL burn in cable. In case if you missed it, you don't need to use your headphones to do initial burn in of AMP modules, the burn in cable has a load termination to emulate the headphone driver, and according to iBasso by using this BAL 2.5mm burn-in load - both SE and BAL sides of the circuit get "excercised". So, you are killing two birds with one stone.

Now, regarding the difference in sound you hear between SE and BAL outputs, cable could be a contributing factor since I assume you are using stock 3.5mm SE cable vs aftermarket 2.5mm BAL cable with your T5p.2. But the biggest contributing factor will be the output voltage difference and the response of Tesla drivers considering SE has 3Vrms vs BAL 6Vrms. Again, I'm making an assumption you are switching between the cables, or maybe you are using one balanced cable and 2.5mm to 3.5mm adapter? That will be better for comparison, to keep less variables.

Don't know how much listening you have done with AMP3 in comparison to AMP1 (BAL out, driving T5p.2), but I found while both AMP3 and AMP1 drive T5p.2 to their full potential, AMP3 has a blacker background and a little more transparency with a touch brighter tonality of upper mids and more sparkle in treble (this is specific to T5p 2nd gen). I was pleasantly surprised that although both of them have the same high power BAL output, AMP3 has a cleaner transient of notes with a blacker background which indicates a better pair up with these demanding Tesla drivers. Oh, and I'm using TWag v3 pure silver balanced cable with T5p.2.

I tested TIA Fourte, CFA VEGA, and Beyer T5p 2nd gen, and in every case preferred AMP3, though for TIA Fourte (as well as U18) I like pair up with AMP2 very much too.



Have you compared the T5p 2nd to the T1 2nd? I haven't heard the T5P 2 but have the T1 2nd. The Utopia pretty much spoil me though.
 
Aug 26, 2017 at 7:23 PM Post #7,940 of 21,929

gstepic

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I assume you meant "each headphone out needs to be broken in separately."? Actually, it does NOT, based on AMP1 module architecture and also the reason why iBasso included 2.5mm BAL burn in cable. In case if you missed it, you don't need to use your headphones to do initial burn in of AMP modules, the burn in cable has a load termination to emulate the headphone driver, and according to iBasso by using this BAL 2.5mm burn-in load - both SE and BAL sides of the circuit get "excercised". So, you are killing two birds with one stone.

Now, regarding the difference in sound you hear between SE and BAL outputs, cable could be a contributing factor since I assume you are using stock 3.5mm SE cable vs aftermarket 2.5mm BAL cable with your T5p.2. But the biggest contributing factor will be the output voltage difference and the response of Tesla drivers considering SE has 3Vrms vs BAL 6Vrms. Again, I'm making an assumption you are switching between the cables, or maybe you are using one balanced cable and 2.5mm to 3.5mm adapter? That will be better for comparison, to keep less variables.

Don't know how much listening you have done with AMP3 in comparison to AMP1 (BAL out, driving T5p.2), but I found while both AMP3 and AMP1 drive T5p.2 to their full potential, AMP3 has a blacker background and a little more transparency with a touch brighter tonality of upper mids and more sparkle in treble (this is specific to T5p 2nd gen). I was pleasantly surprised that although both of them have the same high power BAL output, AMP3 has a cleaner transient of notes with a blacker background which indicates a better pair up with these demanding Tesla drivers. Oh, and I'm using TWag v3 pure silver balanced cable with T5p.2.

I tested TIA Fourte, CFA VEGA, and Beyer T5p 2nd gen, and in every case preferred AMP3, though for TIA Fourte (as well as U18) I like pair up with AMP2 very much too.




Yeah, it should have clicked that it did not make any difference which headphone output I used as I did use that cable for much of my burn in. And I was comparing the stock SE 3.5 T5P cable with the LQi VODA/CQ7 balanced cable which I am still burning in. I know nothing about cables so hope LQi a decent quality brand. What I do know is the new balanced cable really made a difference (probably because of the greater output voltage as you said). I should be getting the amp3 Tuesday and I can hardly wait.
 
Aug 26, 2017 at 7:32 PM Post #7,941 of 21,929
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Have you compared the T5p 2nd to the T1 2nd? I haven't heard the T5P 2 but have the T1 2nd. The Utopia pretty much spoil me though.

No, didn't have a chance to play with T1, but heard it's more neutral-reference, brighter? though not sure if 2nd gen was retuned. Don't want to jump into a conclusion based on reading about it, rather than having first-hand listening experience. Funny that when I attended CanJam NYC, it was my goal to listen to Utopia but I never got to it...
 
Aug 26, 2017 at 10:59 PM Post #7,942 of 21,929
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Doing a quick comparison of the Amp1 and Amp2, the Amp2 sounds wider in staging, flatter in terms of tonal response, and treble a little more revealing without being offensive. The Amp2 sounds more "dynamic" as the stage opens up. Where I initially felt the DX200 with Amp1 sounding more referency, the Amp2 is even more referency due to it's flatter tonal response.

Personally for my tastes, the Amp2 is one up the Amp1 (and I don't mean numerically). That'll be interesting to see how the Amp3 pans out against the Amp2. And as for speculations for Amp4, please please please make the Amp4 :-

1) 4.4mm (I'll start re-terminating my 2.5mms to Pentaconns :D)
2) powerful enough to drive the HE-6 and/or Susvara

Tests are off the current 2.5.141 firmware and with the Noble Audio Sage (and Tears for Fears album - Tears for Fears forever!!!)

Snapseed.jpg


As for comparisons to the NW-WM1Z, I have to admit to my years that the WM1Z has an edge over the DX200 in the fluid and holographic representation of audiophile vocal tracks. This is less apparent for say the kinda 80s or pop music I hear but apparent wit the the audiophile vocal series. Having said that, it's the DX200 that I carry around outside mostly due to it's practical weight and availability of a line out for testing with other amps in the shops.
 
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Aug 27, 2017 at 1:36 AM Post #7,943 of 21,929

jamato8

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Doing a quick comparison of the Amp1 and Amp2, the Amp2 sounds wider in staging, flatter in terms of tonal response, and treble a little more revealing without being offensive. The Amp2 sounds more "dynamic" as the stage opens up. Where I initially felt the DX200 with Amp1 sounding more referency, the Amp2 is even more referency due to it's flatter tonal response.

Personally for my tastes, the Amp2 is one up the Amp1 (and I don't mean numerically). That'll be interesting to see how the Amp3 pans out against the Amp2. And as for speculations for Amp4, please please please make the Amp4 :-

1) 4.4mm (I'll start re-terminating my 2.5mms to Pentaconns :D)
2) powerful enough to drive the HE-6 and/or Susvara

Tests are off the current 2.5.141 firmware and with the Noble Audio Sage (and Tears for Fears album - Tears for Fears forever!!!)



As for comparisons to the NW-WM1Z, I have to admit to my years that the WM1Z has an edge over the DX200 in the fluid and holographic representation of audiophile vocal tracks. This is less apparent for say the kinda 80s or pop music I hear but apparent wit the the audiophile vocal series. Having said that, it's the DX200 that I carry around outside mostly due to it's practical weight and availability of a line out for testing with other amps in the shops.
I would agree with you with a couple of caveats: To me the WM1Z sounds a little brighter, slightly tipped up compared to the DX200 on the latest FW. The DX200 though still sounds more dynamic to me. This is on IEM's and the Utopia. On the FW 2.3 for the DX200 I find that the 200 is better in dynamics and the 3D. Now if they can get the 2.3 with the latest updates that 2.5 has, to me there will be a small advantage to the DX200 in all areas. The cable used is the Twau V2 for the IEM in 4 braid and for the Utopia, Twau V2 in 8 braid. The connector is a non magnetic 4.4 trrrs and a Furutech 2.5 trrs.

edit: I just did a volume match using my digital meter. I had the 200 a little lower than I thought. Matched I would have to say they both have about the same 3D sound. I need to listen longer now as I thought I had matched them but must have moved the volume on one of the two.
 
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Aug 27, 2017 at 3:01 AM Post #7,944 of 21,929

Glasha

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I have problems using the DX200 as a DAC. In general the volume on my Windows 10 is 20, when I use the DX200 the volume automatically raise up to 72, and indeed 20 becomes too low for my ears. If I listen to youtube the volume is pretty ok, but when I switch to VLC or MPC-HC the sound is very low, even if I raise up the volume to 100 (both Windows and applications).
Should I play with any settings? I tried to look for the right setting, but I didn't find anything useful.
 
Aug 27, 2017 at 3:17 AM Post #7,945 of 21,929

seamon

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I have problems using the DX200 as a DAC. In general the volume on my Windows 10 is 20, when I use the DX200 the volume automatically raise up to 72, and indeed 20 becomes too low for my ears. If I listen to youtube the volume is pretty ok, but when I switch to VLC or MPC-HC the sound is very low, even if I raise up the volume to 100 (both Windows and applications).
Should I play with any settings? I tried to look for the right setting, but I didn't find anything useful.
Try raising the volume on the DAP
 
Aug 27, 2017 at 3:44 AM Post #7,946 of 21,929
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I would agree with you with a couple of caveats: To me the WM1Z sounds a little brighter, slightly tipped up compared to the DX200 on the latest FW. The DX200 though still sounds more dynamic to me. This is on IEM's and the Utopia. On the FW 2.3 for the DX200 I find that the 200 is better in dynamics and the 3D. Now if they can get the 2.3 with the latest updates that 2.5 has, to me there will be a small advantage to the DX200 in all areas. The cable used is the Twau V2 for the IEM in 4 braid and for the Utopia, Twau V2 in 8 braid. The connector is a non magnetic 4.4 trrrs and a Furutech 2.5 trrs.

edit: I just did a volume match using my digital meter. I had the 200 a little lower than I thought. Matched I would have to say they both have about the same 3D sound. I need to listen longer now as I thought I had matched them but must have moved the volume on one of the two.
Hmmm...interesting, we do hear differently. To my ears the NW-WM1Z isn't brighter than the DX200 on either DX200 amps. I definitely have the opposite findings to you that I find the NW-WM1Z more holographic - these are on the FitEar Titan, and MH335DW-SR CIEMs.
 
Aug 27, 2017 at 4:09 AM Post #7,947 of 21,929

Morimoriya 62

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Hmmm...interesting, we do hear differently. To my ears the NW-WM1Z isn't brighter than the DX200 on either DX200 amps. I definitely have the opposite findings to you that I find the NW-WM1Z more holographic - these are on the FitEar Titan, and MH335DW-SR CIEMs.


I read some reivew about NW-WM1Z ,Most have the same definition sony has warmer ,thicker,musical,colored Sig,but I'm not sure holographic than Dx200 ,In contrast Dx200 analytical,neutral Sig ,detail ,very nice soundstage and separation and layering good .
It's interesting to me, why is the difference in listening.



Regards Mori
 
Aug 27, 2017 at 4:32 AM Post #7,948 of 21,929
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Hi Mori,

I don't think there's a right or wrong to this. Unfortunately there are multiple variables at play - how one listens is one variable, how one explain in words is another, how much experience is further another variable (this is not to say jamato8 is not experienced, he is -very- experienced and I've known him on Head-Fi for a few years), and a multitude more variables to consider.

So the best is to read up more opinions from other members who own both models and have them share. Better still find a way to get or demo both to decide for yourself.
 
Aug 27, 2017 at 5:01 AM Post #7,949 of 21,929

Morimoriya 62

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Hi Mori,

I don't think there's a right or wrong to this. Unfortunately there are multiple variables at play - how one listens is one variable, how one explain in words is another, how much experience is further another variable (this is not to say jamato8 is not experienced, he is -very- experienced and I've known him on Head-Fi for a few years), and a multitude more variables to consider.

So the best is to read up more opinions from other members who own both models and have them share. Better still find a way to get or demo both to decide for yourself.

Thanks for advice ,agree with you Sound is composed of different parts (Dap ,Iem or headphone,cable ,amp,record........)We all know Each one
It has own Sig ,and Affects the general .
By the way I like Dx200 and this thread ,use the experiences of various people.


Regards Mori
 

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