[HuoYuanJia]

He has a FR chart here: https://www.audiodiscourse.com/2020/05/dunu-luna-review.html

I hope Dunu doesn't mind if I add some measurements.

Blue (left) and red (right) are perfectly matched. I have also tried various tips like Final E-Type, SpinFit CP100 and AZLA Sedna. All of these averaged is represented by the grey dotted line. My personal pick are the SpinFit, though the Sedna match the aesthetics best. (Pics will follow soon.)

As always, looking at graphs is fun, but it's only half the truth.

Edit: Should have added the equipment. Output: RME ADI-2 DAC (close to zero ohms OI) / Input: IEC 60318-4 / uncompensated, psyochoacoustically smoothed

 

[FlowLikeWater]

I hope Dunu doesn't mind if I add some measurements.



Blue (left) and red (right) are perfectly matched. I have also tried various tips like Final E-Type, SpinFit CP100 and AZLA Sedna. All of these averaged is represented by the grey dotted line. My personal pick are the SpinFit, though the Sedna match the aesthetics best. (Pics will follow soon.)

As always, looking at graphs is fun, but it's only half the truth.

Edit: Should have added the equipment. Output: RME ADI-2 DAC (close to zero ohms OI) / Input: IEC 60138-4 / uncompensated, psyochoacoustically smoothed

some of best channel matching i have seen thx for posting

 

[hkpants]

Just throwing in m

I hope Dunu doesn't mind if I add some measurements.



Blue (left) and red (right) are perfectly matched. I have also tried various tips like Final E-Type, SpinFit CP100 and AZLA Sedna. All of these averaged is represented by the grey dotted line. My personal pick are the SpinFit, though the Sedna match the aesthetics best. (Pics will follow soon.)

As always, looking at graphs is fun, but it's only half the truth.

Edit: Should have added the equipment. Output: RME ADI-2 DAC (close to zero ohms OI) / Input: IEC 60318-4 / uncompensated, psyochoacoustically smoothed

Matches my experience with the Luna!

 

[davidmolliere]

@twister6 don't let these comments get you down. Number of Likes may not be a great indicator, but unfortunately, there is no counter to keep track of how many members have truly benefitted from your advise so far. And if there was one, you'd be on top. You don't have to prove anything to anyone. We all have our real lives with more pressing matters. We can't let petty drama like this impact our real lives. Just want you to know that there are lot of us who believe in you.

Couldn't have written it better +1000 !

It's only be a few weeks without the Luna and I miss them so much it's my next buy

 

[Precogvision]

@twister6 don't let these comments get you down. Number of Likes may not be a great indicator, but unfortunately, there is no counter to keep track of how many members have truly benefitted from your advise so far. And if there was one, you'd be on top. You don't have to prove anything to anyone. We all have our real lives with more pressing matters. We can't let petty drama like this impact our real lives. Just want you to know that there are lot of us who believe in you.

What comments?
( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)

Edit: I’m done, but I’ll just leave it at that.

To the guy running the Dunu Head-fi account, you’re an awesome guy and shouldn’t have had to put up with what happened. The Luna looks like a sweet IEM, and hopefully there’ll be a demo eventually (maybe at Canjam?) for us newer plebs.

 

[DUNU-Topsound]

Hopefully, we can put whatever the last couple of days was about behind us.

---

I hope Dunu doesn't mind if I add some measurements.



Blue (left) and red (right) are perfectly matched. I have also tried various tips like Final E-Type, SpinFit CP100 and AZLA Sedna. All of these averaged is represented by the grey dotted line. My personal pick are the SpinFit, though the Sedna match the aesthetics best. (Pics will follow soon.)

As always, looking at graphs is fun, but it's only half the truth.

Edit: Should have added the equipment. Output: RME ADI-2 DAC (close to zero ohms OI) / Input: IEC 60318-4 / uncompensated, psyochoacoustically smoothed

Thanks for the post --- measurements are welcome. Your measurements on frequency response align quite closely with our in-house measurements, actually.

As we get back on track, we'll start diving deeper into the significance of the bass response and how it relates to the way the driver is fabricated and sprung. It was what we were discussing with @csglinux before things took a left turn into Whoville. We'll talk roll-off and how we define roll-off. We'll talk about the bump at 4.5 kHz. We'll talk about what the current understanding is on depth of insertion for IEC 60318-4 compliant ear simulators.

But first, we've got a new product series launch to take care of.

To the guy running the Dunu Head-fi account, you’re an awesome guy and shouldn’t have had to put up with what happened. The Luna looks like a sweet IEM, and hopefully there’ll be a demo eventually (maybe at Canjam?) for us newer plebs.

Thanks --- we're still planning on attending multiple CanJam events this year; however, they've all been pushed back to the latter half of the year. With COVID-19, it has been difficult to scale tours and loans because of a commensurate amount of disarray in the shipping sector. Everyday, the rules change. Some days they won't ship things heavier than 2 kg. The next, they only want to ship things greater than 20 kg. Transit times are first delayed by 3 days, then 10, then 30. We've done our best to try to get as many people to listen without compromising on safety.

 

[HuoYuanJia]

I admit, I haven't read many of the comments because I like to go unbiased into new gear. I also don't measure IEMs until I have spent a few days listening to them because I know they can be deceiving.

I want to keep impressions short so I still have something left to write for my own blog.

First off, I also have the Final A8000 right now and as I received them a few days earlier, they got a head start. Not gonna lie, the A8000 can be really impressive at times. But they're also fatiguing and quite uncomfortable (for my ears). The Dunu Luna arrived at just the right time! They are not only very comfortable, but also smooth in their presentation.

Sub-bass isn't lacking, in my opinion. This is one of the main factors where graphs leave wrong impressions. (I explicitly mean frequency response graphs, not measurements in general. You can always find the truth if you know where to look - and have the equipment and experience to measure accurately.) Some single BA IEMs draw a straight line down to 20 Hz but are basically inaudible in the lowest range. The Dunu, however, remains thick and tight as low as my hearing goes. The sub-bass feels very intact! Yet it doesn't cause fatigue. It's not exaggerated. I did notice that the Luna will demand reasonable volume to present that strength authoritatively. Dropping the volume will cut out the sub-bass first.

Does it matter? Not at all. Some of the best audio I've heard was through near-field speakers. Do they extend below 50 Hz? Not without a sub. Does anybody actually care? I guess IEMs have that advantage over loudspeakers. They can create pressure in the very lows without a challenge. I guess many are used to that, but in my opinion it should never be a defining factor about quality.

The Luna aren't the IEMs for a punchy bass either. It's not the oomph that pulls me into the musicality; instead it's the lush texture. Electric bass and strings have an amazing dimensionality. I guess this is where the beryllium driver flexes its muscles most.

Mids have a little bit extra edge. They sound crispy and snappy. This brings out details a bit more. Luckily it's not overdone. Some 80's recordings can be a little bit shouty (Whitney Houston) but that's not anything most people listen to nowadays anymore. I can listen to Rock no problem. But it seems Dunu tuned it like this on purpose. I am looking forward to more detailed insights.

We'll talk about the bump at 4.5 kHz.

The overall tonality of the treble sounds correct to my ears. Sharpness is quenched by the 7kHz cut so I haven't experienced any sibilance at all. The top-end extension is superb.

These are early impressions, so the perception might change over time.

Just let me add this real quick:
1. The cable is the single best audiophile cable I have ever experienced! I'm in love. Perfect thickness, low memory, high flexibility - and of course - the genius exchangeable plug.
2. The design and fit of the Luna are superb. As are the aesthetics. I swear, if I see these laying around on my desk, I just want to touch and wear them! I can't keep my hands off this genius design. My thumb just fits so well into the concave shape that I have to play with it all the time. The texture feels so good, too. Do I sound like an IEM loving maniac? Maybe I am. I think this is probably not on many people minds, but one should not underestimate the power of this subconscious attractiveness.

 

[FlowLikeWater]

@HuoYuanJia

"I did notice that the Luna will demand reasonable volume to present that strength authoritatively. Dropping the volume will cut out the sub-bass first."

it is very interesting u mention this, i remembr reading somewhere that frequency response is moderately dependent on volume (something about fletcher munson? volume nonlinear affect on FR?), pls forgive me i am no audio expert but i believe u when u say the sub bass is there, exciting since i love dynamic driver single DD

can i ask, is the bass "abyss-like"? as in, does it feel like there is no limit to the depths the bass can reach? purely from ur listening, no measurements

 

[hkpants]

@HuoYuanJia

"I did notice that the Luna will demand reasonable volume to present that strength authoritatively. Dropping the volume will cut out the sub-bass first."

it is very interesting u mention this, i remembr reading somewhere that frequency response is moderately dependent on volume (something about fletcher munson? volume nonlinear affect on FR?), pls forgive me i am no audio expert but i believe u when u say the sub bass is there, exciting since i love dynamic driver single DD

can i ask, is the bass "abyss-like"? as in, does it feel like there is no limit to the depths the bass can reach? purely from ur listening, no measurements

Bass perception changes with volume, but measurements should not change with volume.

 

[Frankie D]

Nowhere did I say the Luna shouldn't be applauded. If you re-read my posts very carefully, you might notice I simply pointed out that the Luna's sub-bass rolls off. That's all.


Of course you do. This is headfi, where blind faith and ignorance are entirely equivalent, if not superior, to facts and an education.
I'm afraid your Star Wars reference was lost on me. It wasn't even 5/4? If we're going to make wildly irrelevant and off-topic comments, then:

I was not going to reply at all, but I do feel you misunderstood me. And don't worry, I will not respond to the other posts that were removed. When I said I disagree, I really meant to say I did not wish to get into this further with you. My bad for saying "I disagree" vs actually explaining myself. Yes, your points about measurements make sense. My point is I have not found a way to accurately correlate the sound of an IEM solely by measurements, and certainly not simply by the frequency response curve. I do not mean that we should not look at it, because I do still look at them. But I still cannot properly deduce the sound of the IEM from that alone. Now, oversimplifying things, if the response shows zero response below 150Z, I realize the bass will be weak and not to my liking. But with top IEM's I would never expect that to be the case.

Looking at home audio, when I read Stereophile for example, I usually see roughly 9 different measurements for speakers, from frequency response, to step response (tells a bit about phase and crossovers), cumulative spectral decay, etc. From these many measurements, the reviewers (and myself) still cannot necessarily know all of the performance of the loudspeaker before they listen. Truthfully, it has always bothered me why this is the case. What measurements will accurately predict the performance/sound of the loudspeaker or IEM? You seem to be much more into measurements and probably more technical that me. If you know of such measurements (and where to find them) that will predict how they will sound, I am all ears. Please let me know, I would be happy to use them. I mean this.

Another tool we can use is “observational listening” as a way to understand an audio component. This term, observational listening, was used by the late Harry Pearson of the The Absolute Sound, to differentiate a bit from “subjective listening.” The idea was that by living with an audio component for weeks or months would allow the reviewer to more fully understand the strengths and weaknesses of the component, its sound, and to convey that sound to the reader. This will put allot on the reviewer, and the reviewer will need to have top equipment in order to make meaningful comparisons. But , I am rambling.

I would like to take a moment to apologize as it seems that the discussion between the two of us has caused another member to be attacked, and that is not the purpose of this forum. So, my apologies to Twister6 who is an excellent reviewer, and should not have been attacked. And my apologies to you as well.
At the end of one of my posts I used a Star Wars reference that you stated “was lost on you.” I was simply using the phrase “may the force be with you” as a salutation to wish you well. I will try a phrase from another movie this time: “May the odds be ever in your favor.” I am wishing you well.

Lastly, my apologies to Dunu, as I think we took away the focus of this thread, which is really about the Luna. I think it is a great IEM, and hopefully you all will as well. I know Subguy812 does, and I am sure many others do as well. In time I will try to make some additional comparisons to other IEM’s that will hopefully be of value to you all.

My best to everyone.

 

[ranfan]

I hope Dunu doesn't mind if I add some measurements.



Blue (left) and red (right) are perfectly matched. I have also tried various tips like Final E-Type, SpinFit CP100 and AZLA Sedna. All of these averaged is represented by the grey dotted line. My personal pick are the SpinFit, though the Sedna match the aesthetics best. (Pics will follow soon.)

As always, looking at graphs is fun, but it's only half the truth.

Edit: Should have added the equipment. Output: RME ADI-2 DAC (close to zero ohms OI) / Input: IEC 60318-4 / uncompensated, psyochoacoustically smoothed

The graph reminds me a lot of the FIBAE 7. It has plenty of bass IMO, but never overwhelming rather playing a more supporting role. It focuses to highlight the mids more. Unfortunately I cannot compare them, since my Luna is in Japan.

Spoiler: F

 

[HuoYuanJia]

it is very interesting u mention this, i remembr reading somewhere that frequency response is moderately dependent on volume (something about fletcher munson? volume nonlinear affect on FR?), pls forgive me i am no audio expert but i believe u when u say the sub bass is there, exciting since i love dynamic driver single DD

I'm sorry, I haven't had the chance to wear the Abyss yet. But now that you mention it, Luna's bass does sound more magnetostatic-like than many other IEMs.

About the loudness. I think there is a misconception where people think more bass and more treble equals more loudness. If you look at the Fletcher-Munson curve, higher volume actually lowers the 3kHz area. Here is a very over-simplified sketch. Orange = loud, blue = same perception at lower volumes.

This is very off-topic, but I have equalized several IEMs to my personal linear perception. The outcome shows a volume correction as suggested above.

 

[chungoooo]

But first, we've got a new product series launch to take care of.

????
Which one?

 

[buonassi]

Some single BA IEMs draw a straight line down to 20 Hz but are basically inaudible in the lowest range

I've noticed same

but I have equalized several IEMs to my personal linear perception. The outcome shows a volume correction as suggested above.

this is truly fascinating. For years I've been an advocate of the 'equal loudness' (linear to me) EQ compensation curve. I build them by first roughing out third octave points starting with 3150 and ending with 12.5khz - mainly I leave the bass alone or just low shelf it down a bit. I use a programmable sine tone plugin called "Melda MOscillator" that allows you to store tones as toggle buttons. After the rough points, I use the same plugin to manually sweep (user controllable) and fine tweak the filter center frequencies, Q values, etc.

What you give up is perhaps a slight phase shift (if you aren't using a linear phase EQ), but what you gain is close to speaker like presentation in the upper mids / treble and a linearity that simply can't be achieved with an occluded ear canal (physics).

I'm certainly going to be checking out your blog more often Klaus. Thanks Sir.

 

[csglinux]

I'm sorry, I haven't had the chance to wear the Abyss yet. But now that you mention it, Luna's bass does sound more magnetostatic-like than many other IEMs.

About the loudness. I think there is a misconception where people think more bass and more treble equals more loudness. If you look at the Fletcher-Munson curve, higher volume actually lowers the 3kHz area. Here is a very over-simplified sketch. Orange = loud, blue = same perception at lower volumes.



This is very off-topic, but I have equalized several IEMs to my personal linear perception. The outcome shows a volume correction as suggested above.

I'm not understanding what you wrote in the bold text. Equal loudness curves are curves that for a given OASPL create the perception of equal loudness across the frequency spectrum, no? For example: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Equal-loudness_contour
So at lower volumes, you need (relative to, say, 1 kHz) higher amplitude at the extremes (lowest and highest frequencies). Based on that comment in the bold text, I think your blue and orange/yellow curves look to be the wrong way around. I think what you're intending to say is these curves are the compensations that you're adding in order to achieve the perception of equal loudness, right?