[csglinux]

Yes, I would encourage not to rely entirely on what you are seeing in FR measurements, but rather wait until you get a chance to hear it yourself When you look at the measurements, you can jump to a wrong conclusion that Luna is some mid-forward tuned IEM with rolled off bass, which it is not. I took the measurements before I heard it, and was a bit surprised myself There is plenty of bass, and echoing @subguy812 comments - YOU NEED TO TIP ROLL because it does affect Luna sound and it is quite noticeable. And, perhaps, that explains discrepancies in people's impressions.

And speaking of reviews and measurements, @antdroid, out of curiosity, did you have a chance to run a sine sweep when you had your Luna tour unit? Only saying it cause while I do agree with your measurements up to 5kHz peak, after that based on what I have measured and confirmed in multiple sine sweeps, Luna does not have 8kHz peak, it peaks closer to 7k and then drops off sharply before 8k and then peaks again around 10kHz where you have a dip. If you get a chance, please double check it, bud.

I will absolutely listen and measure with multiple eartips if the opportunity arises. But two comments:

1) We can all agree eartips make a difference. What passive eartips can't/won't do is to turn a sub-bass roll-off into a sub-bass rise. Not unless we have eartips capable of changing the laws of physics
2) A shift in ear-canal resonance from 7<->8 kHz is easily explainable by a small change in insertion depth. Everybodys' ear canals are different, so I don't think @antdroid's measurements are wrong. You guys would almost certainly agree (assuming you're both using 711 couplers) if you just matched eartip type and used the same distance to the coupler reference plane.

 

[DUNU-Topsound]

Late replies --- we've been trying to get ready for our new BA series, Studio (we'll be making an announcement soon).

The discussion has gotten a little testy lately. Let's all try to keep the discussion civil, yeah?

We are an engineering-oriented company, so we recognize the many merits of a more academic discussion on sound, and we're happy to do that.

Over the years, we've also recognized the need to take 'artistic liberties' vis-a-vis sound signature. This is a practice that we had to learn over time, through experience. We know what we're up against. We're not an established German or Japanese firm with half a century of hi-fi heritage. But we've been at it for nearly two decades, with over a decade of working just about exclusive with in-ears and earbuds. Our acoustic engineer, Andy, has been with us since before DUNU was created as a brand. Hitting an FR target is not difficult.

Many thanks @DUNU-Topsound

I completely understand your pre-amble w.r.t. covid-19. You're very wise to be cautious. But it seems we have the minority view. Most people where I live are out protesting for their constitutional right to drown in their own lung fluids. (And of course, to be able to pass on that experience to their local grocery-store workers and health-care providers.)

I signed up for the tour, but there was no option for me to request a specific slot. It would be awesome if you could squeeze me in while the tour unit is still relatively close to me?!? If not, I understand. I did sign up very, very late.

What has me curious about this earphone is the claimed difference between measurements and impressions in the bass. The treble I'd understand as we have differing canal lengths, resonant peaks, etc. But I've never encountered discrepancies like that with the low frequencies. Not unless there wasn't a proper seal in the ear canal or coupler, and that would be such a noobish mistake to make, I think there's zero chance Jude would have done that. All our coupler brands and variants tend to agree closely in the bass frequencies, so like I said, I'm curious...

I'm not able to find any review from you on the LUNA. In any case, while I'd agree with you that to achieve maximum sub-bass it's imperative to get a proper seal, in every IEM I've ever seen and heard, eartip type (once a proper seal has been achieved) is basically irrelevant to the bass. (Certainly not irrelevant to the upper frequencies, but irrelevant to the bass.) You may be able to throw foam tips on it and reduce the treble and therefore make it tilt slightly warmer, but that's not because you've changed the bass. If you were to align those spectra, the bass wouldn't change at all.

Maybe wearing it in different positions or insertion depths causes its vent ports to block or unblock and those are the differences being heard?

I'd be very surprised if what you're saying weren't true. The low-frequency measurements are usually the more reliable part of the spectrum. Some people genuinely prefer to have a sub-bass that rolls off a bit, and there's nothing wrong with that, if that's what you like. I usually prefer sub-bass > mid-bass, but I should hold back judgement since I've not yet heard the LUNA.

Thank you @rantng - I wouldn't have found those posts without your help

I think the moral of the story, for every IEM on the planet, is to do lots and lots of tip rolling. I've got IEMs I've owned for years that still surprise me when I put new tips on them.
I don't know how much useful advice anybody can give to others on tips though. I like the Cp100 that @subguy812 mentions - they seem to fit me well on most IEMs - but
with everybody having different-shaped ears...?

I did notice one of the vent ports looks like it might sit right up against the ear-canal opening. Anybody tried taping over it to see the effect of blocking it?

Cabin fever is just about inevitable these days, but hopefully people will eventually come to their senses and do the prudent thing. As a native Angeleno and health provider, it'd be disheartening to see a second wave. There are ways to open up public services and the economy in a step-wise, safe manner that don't entail protests and blockades.

Yes, there's no option for a specific slot --- we assign the order and slots for the sake of simplifying logistics. Shipping is a veritable nightmare these days. Cross-Atlantic and cross-pacific shipments are delayed by up to an entire week these days. We just found out USPS is refusing shipments to Canada (and most likely Mexico, though we haven't checked), so we have to go with other couriers just to ship across the border. We'll contact you via PM with specifics.

The vent on the interior will affect bass response, as does the vent behind the MMCX connector. They have opposite, balancing effects. If you cover up one, you can get many more decibels of sub-bass, with minimal impact on the rest of the frequency range. However, this isn't the driver behavior we wish to have. It biases driver motion and in listening tests, limits the amount of detail we can extract from the low end.

If LUNA's sound signature is ideal for a listener, we don't recommend occluding the vents, as they will alter the bass response, but owners are welcome to try various methods to mod LUNA to their liking. We know the tricks people do with 3M Micropore tape, Blu-Tack, etc.

So yes --- for our target sound signature, there will be more perceived mid-bass than sub-bass.

However, we did not design LUNA to be "mid-bassy" to exude fun --- we wished to simulate what we felt was a natural bass response that articulated bass subtleties well without resorting to exaggeration.

We do have models that simulate a more boosted sub-bass response, such as those in our DK hybrid lineup. But LUNA's bass response is intended to convey space, nuance, and resolution, rather than sheer quantity and mono-texture.

It is our acoustic engineer Andy's opinion that LUNA's bass resolution outstrips that of the DK-4001, a model we put a lot of effort into bring out bass by designing a complex spiral-shaped bass reflex port (the ACIS system).

A sub-bass test that users can try out begins at 2:19 on K-dot's Loyalty. The bass line should be completely below 100 Hz, reaching down to 30 Hz:



Another one may be the bass line from 0:12 to 0:21 from Drake's Started from the Bottom. This is a good track to test for bass bloat. Ear pieces with rolloff tend to emphasize frequencies above 50 Hz rather than the ones below 50 Hz and tend to overemphasize the midbass bleed.



However, since both these tracks use highly synthesized bass, they both tend to sound very one-note down low. There isn't a lot of complex time evolution going on. Then again, there's not that much going on in these frequencies. Most complex sub-bass will happen between 60-100 Hz.

Again, I encourage everyone to read my eartip comparison. I cannot stress enough the importance of the eartip with the Luna. To achieve the maximum sub bass it is imperative.

Thank you for making the extensive comparison --- it really is very comprehensive and provides anyone with a good roadmap on where to start.

I finally received the Dunu Luna as the EU tour resumed, and I guess it's time to share some first impressions.

Accessories
Now, I didn't receive the full package which is one of the most impressive IEM packagings I've ever seen (along with the IER Z1R packaging). It's understandable though as it significantly eases up shipping/logistics in these Covid times. I did get the large carry bag/purse and all the essentials were there including the awesome Luna cable with swappable balanced/Single-ended plugs in various terminations. The tip selection is especially impressive and should basically cover anyone.

Build
The Titanium shell and its finishing is exemplary with subtle grooves and machining that are only visible when light hits them at specific angles (e.g. the subtle grooves around the nozzle). They are also fairly comfortable to wear due to them being lightweight, however the short nozzle might make fit less than ideal for some. The cable is also superb and the swapping mechanism is very solid with a spring assisted locking mechanism.

Sound Impressions
Again, these are early impressions and I've only listened to them for a couple of hours. The first thing that stands out is the effortless detail retrieval. Another thing that stands out in a less glorious manner is the lack of vivid sub-bass rumble as the bass rolls off post 30Hz. Mid-bass however is really well-tuned, no distracting bumps or profuse bleeding into the lower mids. They just add some warmth to the whole midrange, which is very welcome.

Since there is an ongoing discussion about the sub-bass response on these, I think I can add my own experience here. With the Final E-type tips (Black version, Clear version seals less) I got the most bass emphasis, but it was mostly centered around the mid-bass regions. I ran a sine sweep and did go through my usual songs for sub-bass check. The bass rumble isn't severely lacking per se, but it's definitely not emphasized above the mid-bass, and doesn't give that rattling sensation you get once things go down 25Hz or lower. However, I'd assume that these can take some PEQ due to the very low THD figures and I'd check that with EQApo in the coming days.

Speaking of midrange, from the graphs you'll see a massive upper-mid spike ~4KHz. Fortunately, they don't sound that exaggerated or shouty while listening. It does bring acoustic instruments and strings forward into the mix. Male vocals didn't any oddities and sounded mostly as they should. I didn't check them with any female vocal tracks yet, will do before the full review.

Soundstage is not too wide, but has good depth. Imaging is precise, though as is very common for IEMs - things that should be placed behind your head aren't as convincingly placed as the rest of the coordinates.

To conclude, this is shaping up to a very interesting single DD offering, and I intend to explore more and report back over the coming weeks. Stay safe!

Thanks for the impressions --- we didn't ship the entire box because it weighs 2.3 kg and there are multiple couriers that are refusing to ship items > 2 kg that aren't essential items. It also raises eyebrows; a customs officer has more than once expressed doubt about the true contents of a box larger than most media PCs and yet is labeled "earphone".

 

[DUNU-Topsound]

I am one such person FWIW. My brain tires with too much subbass and one of my ears goes into protection mode (acoustic reflex) while the other ear doesn't, even at low volumes. So.... a natural rolloff is preferred for me if I want to keep a center balanced image.

Sub-bass is a difficult animal to figure out. We know humans response naturally to bass. It anchors our sense of rhythm, and we have specially adapted mechanoreceptors in our bodies that detect frequencies of around 250-300 Hz --- the vaunted "mid-bass" (a dirty word for head-fiers), or if we want a nicer term "toe-tapping" bass. Deep sub-bass, on the other hand, may possibly contribute to our sense of alarm, as most is conveyed in terms of large amplitude mechanical energy, upsetting our sense of proprioception. In nicer terms, it's "earth shaking bass". We have so many genres of music that try to take advantage of this type of bass now, though. Is it unsettling, or enjoyable? Tough to determine.

Yes, I would encourage not to rely entirely on what you are seeing in FR measurements, but rather wait until you get a chance to hear it yourself When you look at the measurements, you can jump to a wrong conclusion that Luna is some mid-forward tuned IEM with rolled off bass, which it is not. I took the measurements before I heard it, and was a bit surprised myself There is plenty of bass, and echoing @subguy812 comments - YOU NEED TO TIP ROLL because it does affect Luna sound and it is quite noticeable. And, perhaps, that explains discrepancies in people's impressions.

And speaking of reviews and measurements, @antdroid, out of curiosity, did you have a chance to run a sine sweep when you had your Luna tour unit? Only saying it cause while I do agree with your measurements up to 5kHz peak, after that based on what I have measured and confirmed in multiple sine sweeps, Luna does not have 8kHz peak, it peaks closer to 7k and then drops off sharply before 8k and then peaks again around 10kHz where you have a dip. If you get a chance, please double check it, bud.

He has a FR chart here: https://www.audiodiscourse.com/2020/05/dunu-luna-review.html

Yes, and that is a chart I was referring to (he also mirrored it on Head-fi in Luna review section). I don't believe the measurement is correct after 5kHz, and that's why I encourage other fellow reviewers with diy measurement setups to double check it by running sine sweeps before publishing it, and also the reason why I don't publish my measurements lol!!! While I often find my peaks/valley to align with what I hear when running a sine sweep, the amplitude of peaks in my measurements can't be correct since I don't have an accurate way to calibrate it.

It seems what @twister6 is referring to for "sine sweeps" is subjective listening tests with swept sine wave tracks to determine whether the measurements correlate to the subjective experience.

 

[twister6]

Without a doubt our hearing is subjective because we all have a different hearing level due to our ear sensitivity to various frequencies and, also, our earcanal being like a custom filter which going to shape the sound reaching our eardrums. That is correct, when I’m referring to a sine sweep, it is similar to a hearing test. You play a tone, like this

and listen and note how the sound level changes as it sweeps across entire frequency range. When you are listening to a sweep with your IEMs, it can give you an idea of their frequency response relative to YOUR ears and you can also compare it to a measured FR. Purely subjective, of course.

Thus, we look into the graphs which suppose to be objective since it’s a fixed setup where the mic inside the coupler will record the sound and associated software will plot it. But we also have to keep in mind, even those measurements, while being objective, will not show exactly what someone will hear with their own ears. The professional setups, like the ones used in Head-fi HQ, are calibrated and use specific ear modeling, but it is not modeled after your own ears. And other non-pro measurement setups with budget couplers and shareware/freeware programs, have IEM coupled directly with a short “variable” distance between the nozzle tip and the mic.

I found the seal and the insertion depth of Luna with various eartips to have a noticeable effect on the sound. I did an extensive tip rolling and found eartips to perform like filters here, shaping the overall tonality and even soundstage expansion. It’s actually a cool experiment since, for example, both types of Spinfit eartips are included, normal and TWS, only varying in insertion depth. You need to have patience and go through all of them to appreciate what this IEM has to offer. Someone mentioned to me they crossed Luna off their list because they didn’t like what they have seen in the graph, and that is such a wrong assumption, thinking they will "hear" what they are "seeing". You really have to hear it with your own ears to decide about their sound and to appreciate the tuning.

 

[antdroid]

Yes, I would encourage not to rely entirely on what you are seeing in FR measurements, but rather wait until you get a chance to hear it yourself When you look at the measurements, you can jump to a wrong conclusion that Luna is some mid-forward tuned IEM with rolled off bass, which it is not. I took the measurements before I heard it, and was a bit surprised myself There is plenty of bass, and echoing @subguy812 comments - YOU NEED TO TIP ROLL because it does affect Luna sound and it is quite noticeable. And, perhaps, that explains discrepancies in people's impressions.

And speaking of reviews and measurements, @antdroid, out of curiosity, did you have a chance to run a sine sweep when you had your Luna tour unit? Only saying it cause while I do agree with your measurements up to 5kHz peak, after that based on what I have measured and confirmed in multiple sine sweeps, Luna does not have 8kHz peak, it peaks closer to 7k and then drops off sharply before 8k and then peaks again around 10kHz where you have a dip. If you get a chance, please double check it, bud.

I will absolutely listen and measure with multiple eartips if the opportunity arises. But two comments:

1) We can all agree eartips make a difference. What passive eartips can't/won't do is to turn a sub-bass roll-off into a sub-bass rise. Not unless we have eartips capable of changing the laws of physics
2) A shift in ear-canal resonance from 7<->8 kHz is easily explainable by a small change in insertion depth. Everybodys' ear canals are different, so I don't think @antdroid's measurements are wrong. You guys would almost certainly agree (assuming you're both using 711 couplers) if you just matched eartip type and used the same distance to the coupler reference plane.

Like @csglinux mentions above, changing the insertion depth (and tip) will change the resonance peak location. The IEC-60711 style coupler also has inherent resonance that some of the newer systems do not. In my case, I am trying to push the resonance peak to around 8KHz as best as possible as this lines up with how @crinacle measures for his database. You can find out more details on Crinacle's site about this technique and the reasoning behind it: https://crinacle.com/2020/04/08/graphs-101-how-to-read-headphone-measurements/

 

[Malevolint]

I haven't heard the Luna, but I have heard more than one DUNU IEM and they were all more mid-bass than sub-bass oriented. Seems to be DUNU's thing.

There aren't many totl IEMs with smooth-ish treble and a mid-bass focus.

 

[Rockwell75]

I haven't heard the Luna, but I have heard more than one DUNU IEM and they were all more mid-bass than sub-bass oriented. Seems to be DUNU's thing.

There aren't many totl IEMs with smooth-ish treble and a mid-bass focus.

Luna sounds interesting...I'm always down to check out new single DD IEM.

 

[subguy812]

Luna sounds interesting...I'm always down to check out new single DD IEM.

Wholly recommended....I see your preferences and it is the real deal

 

[Rockwell75]

Wholly recommended....I see your preferences and it is the real deal

I welcome the opportunity to check it out...I'm done searching for the time being though, as my current setup is about as good as it gets for my tastes.

 

[subguy812]

I welcome the opportunity to check it out...I'm done searching for the time being though, as my current setup is about as good as it gets for my tastes.

Understood...I love both Solaris and X. Luna would enhance your collection, I believe, not replace anything you love.

 

[Rockwell75]

Understood...I love both Solaris and X. Luna would enhance your collection, I believe, not replace anything you love.

Oh I don't doubt it...I just learned from my experience having the VE8 on hand that (for me anyway) three's a crowd when it comes to IEMs-- I don't use any of them enough to justify a third pair. Having two on hand is perfect for me (and I just dropped a huge pile of money on a new Macbook Pro so my hobby budget is blown for the time being).

 

[subguy812]

Oh I don't doubt it...I just learned from my experience having the VE8 on hand that (for me anyway) three's a crowd when it comes to IEMs-- I don't use any of them enough to justify a third pair. Having two on hand is perfect for me (and I just dropped a huge pile of money on a new Macbook Pro so my hobby budget is blown for the time being).

I can relate..

 

[buonassi]

edit: I deleted this whole post - It didn't make sense after the moderators did some thread cleaning

 

[DUNU-Topsound]

Folks, there's no need to single people out and antagonize them. This behavior contributing to very off-topic posts. There is no need to get the admins involved, but it needs to stop now. This space has become unwelcome to people who actually wish to discuss LUNA.

Please take note that all LUNA units provided to reviewers are either a part of the tours going on, or short-to-medium term loaners. They need to be returned after a period of time, or otherwise forwarded to other reviewers who wish to listen. So there are no "freebies" going around in exchange for favorable reviews.

We do often just provide sample units to reviewers for other models because it's more convenient to just let people keep them, rather than to spend the money to take them back and be unable to move opened, used units. Yes, it costs us money to store things as well.

LUNA has been a different case, because it takes a lot of time and labor to fabricate the driver. We are unable to produce them at a high rate. It is also extremely costly to make. LUNA was conceived as a cost-no-object project during development. Now our dealers are grumbling because they have very little margin on this product.

As we mentioned multiple times, we believe LUNA should be listened to firsthand. Flagship products are specific to a customer's tastes; we know not everyone will love LUNA --- some may even hate it. All should be allowed to express their opinion. This thread, however, has not been about LUNA for quite a few posts, and that is a shame.

 

[EagleWings]

@twister6 don't let these comments get you down. Number of Likes may not be a great indicator, but unfortunately, there is no counter to keep track of how many members have truly benefitted from your advise so far. And if there was one, you'd be on top. You don't have to prove anything to anyone. We all have our real lives with more pressing matters. We can't let petty drama like this impact our real lives. Just want you to know that there are lot of us who believe in you.