[Blackwoof]

I'm i the only to notice how Balanced armture drivers are just as fast as planar/Estat?. Since that 90% of why BA bass sounds different, Never understood the stigma i see with them like impact/slam. Since any multi BA & ER4 they sound way better than dynamic drivers to me, for many reasons.

 

[baskingshark]

I'm i the only to notice how Balanced armture drivers are just as fast as planar/Estat?. Since that 90% of why BA bass sounds different, Never understood the stigma i see with them like impact/slam. Since any multi BA & ER4 they sound way better than dynamic drivers to me, for many reasons.

Well BAs and DDs have their own advantages and disadvantages in general.

Like I find BAs generally lack in subbass extension and quantity and decay compared to DDs. I find BA bass is generally quicker than DD bass. Though BAs generally sound less authentic in timbre of acoustic instruments, even TOTL sets I've auditioned have a timbre issue. I guess it depends on your preferred music genres.

Whereas DDs generally have better timbre and accurate/natural reproduction of acoustic instruments. Though at the budget to midfi segment, in general I find similarly priced multi BA/hybrids to have superior technicalities compared to similarly priced DDs. Exceptions exist of course.

Hybrids are supposed to combine the best of both worlds but at the budget segment, sometimes they may have cross over and coherency issues.

 

[Blackwoof]

Depends all on the tuning BA's are well fit to pump out bass wither multi or Single. Hybrids have the problem that the DD woofer is too slow to keep up, Which make the mids/treble sound wrong.

 

[baskingshark]

Seems to be about tuning with BA drivers, I've had bassy BA based IEMs that sounded like dynamic's but without the slow decay. The ER4S is a flat line from 20 - 1000Hz with its fast decay it would sound thin, But not a issue with 4XR or a ER3/ER4 with 6db EQ at 125Hz.

Well agreed I've heard bassy BA type bass before, they can give good midbass thump indeed. But the BA bass still generally lacks a subbass (20 - 60 hz) rumble (that is felt rather than heard) compared to DD type gear. And timbre is an issue that I've never been able to fix for BA sets.

But BAs have their own strengths as above. In fact I exclusively use pure BA sets for stage monitoring such as Westones and Audiosense T800, as they give superior technicalities (imaging, instrument separation, clarity, details) at the budget/midfi segment compared to comparatively priced DD.

Exceptions exist of course, so this is just a generalization of their pros/cons. But the good news is that we have many options nowadays, the entry barrier to the audio hobby has dropped a lot the past few years with the flood of cheaper CHIFI in the market.

 

[castleofargh]

I'm i the only to notice how Balanced armture drivers are just as fast as planar/Estat?. Since that 90% of why BA bass sounds different, Never understood the stigma i see with them like impact/slam. Since any multi BA & ER4 they sound way better than dynamic drivers to me, for many reasons.

I'm guessing you're mixing up damping and speed. as the typical BA driver isn't good at reproducing high frequencies which demonstrates it isn't that "fast"(reactance rising like crazy with high freqs even within the audible range). But they do tend to be strongly damped(overly?).

Subjectively, if some people don't like BAs then they don't. I leave battles over the right taste to others.
And I also don't see the point of comparing apples and BA drivers. I've tried in the past and come to the conclusion that until the day we have a market with many planar and electrostatic sealed IEMs the size of an ER4, or fist size BAs in full size headphones, there isn't much merit to debating those.

 

[gregorio]

Never understood the stigma i see with them like impact/slam. Since any multi BA & ER4 they sound way better than dynamic drivers to me, for many reasons.

The stigma is due to various reasons, most commonly abstract preferences or audiophile snobbery. Part of the problem is in how one defines "sounds way better".

Though BAs generally sound less authentic in timbre of acoustic instruments, even TOTL sets I've auditioned have a timbre issue. ...
Whereas DDs generally have better timbre and accurate/natural reproduction of acoustic instruments.

What's your reference? The timbre of acoustic instruments in a specific location/venue, your personal preferences/expectations of what the timbre of acoustic instruments should sound like or the actual sound heard/intended by the artists and engineers who created the recording? Each of these things can be significantly different and the first and last are pretty much always significantly different. More "authentic" or "accurate/natural" reproduction of acoustic instruments is therefore a subjective, arbitrary determination, unless you actually heard the recording in the studio/s where the artists created it.

G

 

[dazzerfong]

I'm i the only to notice how Balanced armture drivers are just as fast as planar/Estat?. Since that 90% of why BA bass sounds different, Never understood the stigma i see with them like impact/slam. Since any multi BA & ER4 they sound way better than dynamic drivers to me, for many reasons.

Considering you're an absolute lover of the Etymotics, pretty hard to change your mind otherwise. The stigma is that the BAs just lack in sub-bass for whatever reason people like to pinpoint to. Me personally, dynamic drivers simply move more air than BAs: that's closer to the sensation of a subwoofer that we all love.

Well agreed I've heard bassy BA type bass before, they can give good midbass thump indeed. But the BA bass still generally lacks a subbass (20 - 60 hz) rumble (that is felt rather than heard) compared to DD type gear. And timbre is an issue that I've never been able to fix for BA sets.

But BAs have their own strengths as above. In fact I exclusively use pure BA sets for stage monitoring such as Westones and Audiosense T800, as they give superior technicalities (imaging, instrument separation, clarity, details) at the budget/midfi segment compared to comparatively priced DD.

Exceptions exist of course, so this is just a generalization of their pros/cons. But the good news is that we have many options nowadays, the entry barrier to the audio hobby has dropped a lot the past few years with the flood of cheaper CHIFI in the market.

BAs with strong sub-bass (i.e. no/minimal dropoff below 50Hz) exist: they just happen to cost a ludicrous amount. Might as well just get a dynamic at that point unless you absolutely hate vents for isolation purposes.

 

[baskingshark]

BAs with strong sub-bass (i.e. no/minimal dropoff below 50Hz) exist: they just happen to cost a ludicrous amount. Might as well just get a dynamic at that point unless you absolutely hate vents for isolation purposes.

Actually I found a somewhat affordable all BA set that has not too bad subbass. The Audiosense T800 (8 Knowles BA), $298 USD, has subbass that goes to almost 20 hz, and it has a vented subwoofer design, so it does move air a bit like a DD bass, in fact in sounds pretty close to a DD bass. And despite the vent, the T800's isolation is almost 30 dB. I know etymotics can hit near 40 dB isolation, but the deep insertion is too uncomfortable for me.

Just that the tactile rumble (that is heard rather than felt) for subbass is still not as good on the T800 as most DD bass (this is a generalization as exceptions exist of course).

 

[dazzerfong]

Actually I found a somewhat affordable all BA set that has not too bad subbass. The Audiosense T800 (8 Knowles BA), $298 USD, has subbass that goes to almost 20 hz, and it has a vented subwoofer design, so it does move air a bit like a DD bass, in fact in sounds pretty close to a DD bass. And despite the vent, the T800's isolation is almost 30 dB. I know etymotics can hit near 40 dB isolation, but the deep insertion is too uncomfortable for me.

Just that the tactile rumble (that is heard rather than felt) for subbass is still not as good on the T800 as most DD bass (this is a generalization as exceptions exist of course).

Honestly, I think all those isolation numbers are bunk. Unless you go out of your way to test them to a particular standard, those numbers are completely useless in gauging how well it will actually isolate.

For example, Etymotics claims 35-42dB reduction for their IEM range: however, their actual hearing protection line goes up to -20dB only. That's because their hearing protection stuff is measured to get the NRR, where achieving -20dB is about as good as it gets for in-ear protection (and around -30dB for over-ear protection).

See what Shure has to say about their isolation values vs NRR:

https://service.shure.com/s/article/isolation-of-shure-earphones-and-nrr-rating?language=en_US

 

[corgifall]

I think It's a personal preference thing. I really like hybrid iems. Like others have said, a DD is usually slower and a really slow DD can really hold back a good music listening experience. A DD in my experience can help drown out a little of the "tin" sounding high frequency BAs as well when you run into them. I tend to EQ down the 250hz and lower on all hybrids I test to try and see how the mids and highs sound without some of the DD in play and it can be surprising how good or bad some of the BAs used sound.

 

[Blackwoof]

I think It's a personal preference thing. I really like hybrid iems. Like others have said, a DD is usually slower and a really slow DD can really hold back a good music listening experience. A DD in my experience can help drown out a little of the "tin" sounding high frequency BAs as well when you run into them. I tend to EQ down the 250hz and lower on all hybrids I test to try and see how the mids and highs sound without some of the DD in play and it can be surprising how good or bad some of the BAs used sound.

I can agree to that I just like the BA sound more to me, I love the treble. I use a +2db 150Hz low shelf on my ER3's anyways since it my sweet spot for bass.

 

[Redcarmoose]

The psychological “getting used to BA” is maybe the biggest thing. Typically we tend to think in terms of absolute sound frequency response and the measurable reality in numbers. The DD seems more capable. When in truth the two sound reproduction methods are very different.

Just looking at computer drawings of BA devices or regular DD units confirm we are enjoying bass made two very different ways. The DD besides a thicker and deeper low end will normally get you better reproduction of reverberations. With that said, BA bass can have it’s own charm. If it’s satisfying to the listener depends greatly on what they normally use. This idea of coming to terms with BA bass being good, can simply start to happen by repeated and prolonged exposure to it. Regardless of which methodology is truly “correct” we can slowly adapt into thinking the less technically correct way is more musical.

The other factor is actually the individual tune (in whole) of the BA IEM itself. Meaning that some brands have different unorthodox creative frequency response curves. An example is to remove a section of the lower midrange response. This can actually focus attention on two places. One, a regular flat midrange will then become more prominent making a non-forward midrange tune become midrange emphasized. The other addition is it can focus mental attention to what BA subbass is left. So at times it’s not what you add to the frequency response but what you decide to take away. Keep in mind this style of tune also ends up being a midrange focused response in the end. But yes, it actually can give the feeling of better transient response and pace.

 

[Blackwoof]

BA bass, has no midbass hump and lower THD are also faster, so i think it getting used to the fact IEMs like the ER4XR and many Multi BA. Are like crystal clean windows vs DD in objective view since when i tried SRH1540, ER2SE the bass sounded weird after using Ety's for 2 years. Which could explain why BAs are such a hard pill if you only had DD gear for 20 years untill now.


Found a blog explaing in detail about ER4S vs other earphone in detail in korean.

https://m.blog.naver.com/vasurada0/220095614139

 

[dazzerfong]

it getting used to the fact IEMs like the ER4XR and many Multi BA. Are like crystal clean windows vs DD in objective view since when i tried SRH1540, ER2SE the bass sounded weird after using Ety's for 2 years.

You mean subjective? You got used to ER2's, so everything else sounds weird.

Should apply for a job at Etymotics marketing

Actually I found a somewhat affordable all BA set that has not too bad subbass. The Audiosense T800 (8 Knowles BA), $298 USD, has subbass that goes to almost 20 hz, and it has a vented subwoofer design, so it does move air a bit like a DD bass, in fact in sounds pretty close to a DD bass. And despite the vent, the T800's isolation is almost 30 dB. I know etymotics can hit near 40 dB isolation, but the deep insertion is too uncomfortable for me.

Just that the tactile rumble (that is heard rather than felt) for subbass is still not as good on the T800 as most DD bass (this is a generalization as exceptions exist of course).

Isolation figures are bunk. Unless performed to OSHA or another standard, they literally mean nothing as everyone measures them differently. There are plenty of ear pros that are rated for 'only' 25-30 dB but are much more isolating than even Etys.

That being said, I have the pleasure of owning an IEM which allows for manipulation of said bass vent by swapping out modules. If I rip out the module and use as-is, sounds like an open headphone with no bass. With the two-holer (module that has a one tiny hold behind a foam filter), blocks out most noise and solves the occlusion effect. With the one-holer module, blocks out a tiny bit more but introduces a bit more of the occlusion effect.

When I tried the same IEM setup but with a DD driver for bass, the changes were less obvious as there was already a vent for the DD.

Looking forward to trying the Audiosense T800 - always interesting to see solutions to perceived misconceptions.

 

[castleofargh]

BA bass, has no midbass hump and lower THD are also faster, so i think it getting used to the fact IEMs like the ER4XR and many Multi BA. Are like crystal clean windows vs DD in objective view since when i tried SRH1540, ER2SE the bass sounded weird after using Ety's for 2 years. Which could explain why BAs are such a hard pill if you only had DD gear for 20 years untill now.


Found a blog explaing in detail about ER4S vs other earphone in detail in korean.

https://m.blog.naver.com/vasurada0/220095614139

Not sure I agree with lower THD in the low end on BA, or the mid bass hump on DD(I already gave my thoughts on "faster"). Once again, if you compare apple to apple, looking for similar sizes and same sealed designs, you won't get that.
On the pairs I have, even within the Ety line, their DD IEMs don't have a mid bass hump like many full size DD headphones do(those tiny Ety drivers don't seem to have a mid bass resonance in the first place, not even a trace of it in impedance/phase measurements), and THD is as low or lower than on my ER4SR.