[Sovkiller]

It is curious when while any member had a non favorable opinion of a given amp (or headphone), the casue is always on the source, my question is: Are those amps (and headphones) only suited to be used with a multithousand sources??? This is simply silly IMO...there is no source on earth that could make a good amp (or a good headphone) sound really bad, I have heard a lot of good amps from different manufacturers and regardless of the source used they always sounded good...period...with a better they sounded better of course, but there was absolutelly no bad case, unless defective...look on other side, for the problems....please!!!!!

 

[gpalmer]

Quote:

Originally Posted by nabwong I'm sure adam has a setup he likes, just that he only post the ones he feels (against) strongly about.

I don't think anyone is objecting to that, it's that Adam has a strong propensity to post on things he knows nothing about or to leap to conclusions that no rational person could justify. It seems like he has some deep need for attention that he keeps excercising on this forum. This thread pretty much lands squarely in the second category (leaping to conclusions) so far as I can see...

Quote:

Originally Posted by nabwong Also, is it just me or there are some "brands" that are considered taboo to speak ill of. I think it's double standards. Refer to Kant on objectivity.

There are brands around here which many folks own and enjoy greatly. They have stood the test of time and many users and become forum favorites. Not everyone likes the Gilmore amplifiers and that is fine. Postings that you don't like the amp and/or that the sound isn't for you is good and I've never really seen a lot of negative feedback engendered by that. It let's other users who may be contemplating the purchase of the amplifier know that there are opposing viewpoints and let's them know that not everyone thinks it's perfect.

It's especially worth noting that Adam made the classic mistake people make with the Gilmore and put garbage sources in front of an amplifier that let's you hear exactly what's wrong with them in combination with a set of headphones that aren't forgiving. Jeez, how many threads are there on this forum that mirror that one with the Gilmores? Might have been smarter to actually read one of them and evaluate his plans in light of it.

Quite honestly, it looks like Adam tried really, really hard to put together the worst system possible for his listening tastes, arbitraily decided to pick one of the components as the source of his problems and then packed it under a sensationalistic title just to be a troll and get attention. Since there are a lot of folks here on the forum that know better than the story he's telling he's not going to get a lot of sympathy or agreement. And quite frankly these sensationalisic threads are getting rather tedious...

 

[gpalmer]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sovkiller It is curious when while any member had a non favorable opinion of a given amp (or headphone), the casue is always on the source, my question is: Are those amps (and headphones) only suited to be used with a multithousand sources??? This is simply silly IMO...there is no source on earth that could make a good amp (or a good headphone) sound really bad, I have heard a lot of good amps from different manufacturers and regardless of the source used they always sounded good...period...with a better they sounded better of course, but there was absolutelly no bad case, unless defective...look on other side, for the problems....please!!!!!

Well, let's take a look at this one Sov. In order of their final contribution to the sound I believe the prevailing consensus is that the components that affect the sound the most are the headphones followed by the source and then the amp. Lesser still are interconnects. This review fails in that the reviewer does not have the experience to jump to the conclusions he does, in particular how wide is his experience with the DT880 and other amplifiers. I don't have a problem with him considering the setup with the Gilmore Lite in it to not meet his needs but I don't think he has the experience to be able to state categorically that the problem is the Gilmore Lite and not that he went out and bought the wrong set of headphones...

 

[AdamCalifornia]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Meyvn I have a Cmoy and K701s, and headphone out on my laptop, and it exhibits NONE of these bad qualities, and all of the good qualities you're asking for. I think you just have a bad combo of source + amp + phones, because no one has a problem with any of these things individually.

Thanks a lot. Of course, such systems exist.

Homework
Could you plug-in Gilmore Lite into your 'well-behaving' system?
What wiil Gilmore Lite do with the sound? Will it enhance it or
will GL 'sprinkle' it with the udesirable sound attributes (1)-(4)?
I don't know! Assume, and just hypothetically assume, that it would
'sprinkle it with 'tinny' sound attributes. How to interpret this fact?

(I) Should we say, in this hypothetical case,
that Gilmore Lite 'contaminated' the sound, because Gilmore Lite
didn't like the source and the cans? Gilmore Lite is simply allergic to them?!
No synergy between the source & cans vs. Gilmore Lite?

or

(II) Should we say that Gilmore Lite simply didn't deliver in this case? (Read my Dislaimer!)

Note that this is a somehow philosophical question, isn't it?
How to interpret this? When you say: it's raining!
Should we just say: it's not sunny?

It depends on whom you ask!
If you ask Gilmore Lite's fanatics and addicts they would say:
your system ain't good! Do not dare to criticize GL! Period!

There are many Gilmore Lite lovers on this site! Can they come up and give us
positive examples of GL's behaviour? We wanna listen to them!
I asked this question in my post! How would GL behave with the DT770s and,
of course, with a decent source (but not very expensive)!

Maybe this inexpensive (entry level) amp needs: cables $100/inch, PSU ($5,000+),
source Zanden $55,000-CD player (see my post 'Lamborghini Among CD Players for $55,000'), etc ...
then this toy is a complete failure!
With such an expensive entourage (see Discussion in my original post)
one would not even look at GL - one would buy at least a $5,000-headphone amp!

See you,

Adam

 

[nabwong]

Quote:

Originally Posted by gpalmer It seems like he has some deep need for attention that he keeps excercising on this forum.

And attention can only be attain by those who give. If the thread is tedious, wouldn't it be easier to not read it? That's why there's a hundred channels on tv. Oooo...NCAA finals tonight!

 

[gpalmer]

Quote:

Originally Posted by AdamCalifornia It depends on whom you ask! If you ask Gilmore Lite's fanatics and addicts they would say: your system ain't good! Do not dare to criticize GL! Period!

Not true, I've seen a lot of people upgrading to SinglePower products who extoll the virtues of their new amplifiers over the Gilmore products and I haven't seen any negative commentary aimed at them...

 

[Sovkiller]

Quote:

Originally Posted by gpalmer Well, let's take a look at this one Sov. In order of their final contribution to the sound I believe the prevailing consensus is that the components that affect the sound the most are the headphones followed by the source and then the amp. Lesser still are interconnects. This review fails in that the reviewer does not have the experience to jump to the conclusions he does, in particular how wide is his experience with the DT880 and other amplifiers. I don't have a problem with him considering the setup with the Gilmore Lite in it to not meet his needs but I don't think he has the experience to be able to state categorically that the problem is the Gilmore Lite and not that he went out and bought the wrong set of headphones...

Well if you want we can keep discussing this matter via a couple of PMs more, as it is not appropriate for me to do it in public, but for your information he is not too far from the reality...and even using other headphones...

 

[gpalmer]

Quote:

Originally Posted by nabwong And attention can only be attain by those who give. If the thread is tedious, wouldn't it be easier to not read it? That's why there's a hundred channels on tv. Oooo...NCAA finals tonight!

That strikes me as the knee jerk reaction of someone with nothing to say. If you have a point to make then make it, otherwise don't bother.

 

[gpalmer]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sovkiller Well if you want we can keep discussing this matter via a couple of PMs more, as it is not appropriate for me to do it in public, but for your information he is not too far from the reality...and even using other headphones...

We could, but I don't see the point. We've done that years ago and we hear things differently. I also respect your opinion even though it differs diametrically from my own, much as with jahn and oski. It's been well stated and consistent for a long time. I can't explain your experiences or agree with them but I am willing to respect them as honest observations from members with the experience to formulate meaningful opinions and value it as a vital part of the discourse on the topic which is the mission of this forum.

 

[nabwong]

Quote:

Originally Posted by gpalmer That strikes me as the knee jerk reaction of someone with nothing to say. If you have a point to make then make it, otherwise don't bother.

My point was in the first post. We crucify those who make negative comments without substance and not those who make positive comments without substance. Double standard. That is the point. You don't agree and that is fine. You have a right to an opinion.

 

[angler31337]

Quote:

Originally Posted by nabwong My point was in the first post. We crucify those who make negative comments without substance and not those who make positive comments without substance.

Yeah... but in general Type I error is regarded as worse than Type II; I don't see why this case should be any different.

-Angler

EDIT: To clarify, it's probably better to falsely acclaim a product, than it is to falsely discredit it.

 

[gpalmer]

Quote:

Originally Posted by nabwong My point was in the first post. We crucify those who make negative comments without substance and not those who make positive comments without substance. Double standard. That is the point. You don't agree and that is fine. You have a right to an opinion.

Actually you seem to have missed my point. Those we have little respect for will generally get a lot more negative feedback than those who have earned our respect. You are viewing negative feedback in this thread as being a consequence of the amplifier being mentioned rather than being based on the respect the other forum members feel or do not feel for the person posting the opinion. With all due respect, and of course in my opinion, you seem to have missed the subtleties of the situation.

In general, everyone is subject to a flush of joy when first evaluating a new purchase and it's fine to enjoy that. It also takes time to really understand the weak points of new gear since first impressions are strongly weighted towards recognition of the strong points. I don't really see a double standard there, rather I see a recognizance of a basic human emotion and the manner in which people learn. It's also why the savvy forum member values the opinions of the other members more after they've had a period of time to reflect.

 

[recstar24]

Adam,

I think you have missed the point, and your growing frustration seems to be rising due to your missing of the point. Let me spell it out for you very clearly so that you can understand it from whatever side of the moon you happen to be on, dark or bright or i dunno...

This transistor sound you are hearing can be attributed to a number of things, and not exclusively the Gilmore Lite. Like I've said earlier, the biggest effect on the sound is going to be the headphones themselves. If you kept everything the same, and changed your headphones, you would get a different sound. The previous recommendation of the Sennheiser HD580's is a good one. They are cheap, have a smooth, somewhat warm tonal balance, and are high performers for the price. In fact, what you describe as this transistor type sound is what I feel about the Beyers.

Next biggest effect on your signal is going to be your source - and no you don;t need $1000 + sources to highlight that point. You don't want a transistor sound? How about a tubed output cd player. I had a Jolida 100a i bought $500 used and its sound was warm, tuneful, somewhat lush with beautiful mids and smooth highs, of course with NOS 5751's rolled in. Or eastern electric minimax with tubed output, there are so many freaking flavors of cd players and all relatively cheap it astounds me that not others here are not recommending them. Even a Sony SACD 595 from best buy for like $150, get some nice SACD's and you will hear the air and warmth that SACD can offer, even through the Gilmore Lite.

 

[radrd]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sovkiller Well if you want we can keep discussing this matter via a couple of PMs more, as it is not appropriate for me to do it in public, but for your information he is not too far from the reality...and even using other headphones...

Does this mean you are going to take up your crusade against Gilmore amps again? Here I was under the impression that you were done once you sold off your V2. Gosh darn it, I'm out of popcorn. Please, while we are playing the come to jesus game, go ahead and re-enlighten us all.

 

[chris719]

Receiver jacks are NOTORIOUS for high output impedances which give bassy, warm, bloated sound. Even a cheap onkyo 'transistor radio' receiver I have does this. You are allergic to the truth Adam. If you like that bloated sound more, that is fine, but realize that it is your receiver that is acting like an equalizer.