Does the Marantz SA11S1 invert phase through XLR outs?

[daltonlanny]

This may have been brought up before.
Does the Marantz SA11S1 invert phase at its XLR ouputs?
If so, how can this be corrected when hooking its XLR's up to a balanced preamp/amp, to get the sound back in phase?
Does the SA11S1 sound better through its XLR outs compared to its RCA outs, or do they sound about the same?
Thanks!

 

[daltonlanny]

OOPS, it has been brought up! Sorry.
But, I would still like to know if the SA11S1 offers a noticeable sonic improvement [not loudness] when using the XLR's as opposed to the RCA's, or are they about the same sonically?
And I would still like to know exactly how to correct the out of phase XLR's.

 

[sejarzo]

The manual for the Marantz is online and confirms that it uses the "old American" or "USA" standard (that most American gear seems NOT to follow any more!) with pin 2 "cold"/inverted/- and pin 3 "hot"/non-inverted/+ (take your pick of terminology......)

[EDIT: Removed confusing info based on incorrect diagram in online manual for Lanny's preamp.]

Two great references on these topics are:

http://www.rane.com/note151.html

and

http://www.rane.com/note110.html

ASR's suggestion below is correct and is the recommendation from the Marantz manual.

 

[Asr]

The easiest and most practical solution would be to get custom-wired XLR interconnects with pins 2 and 3 reversed.

 

[sejarzo]

[EDIT: Removed more confusing info based on incorrect diagram in online manual for Lanny's preamp.]

 

[Asr]

I'm pretty sure he wouldn't use the XLR ICs going into his Parasound pre-amp but rather into a GS-X that he just got.

 

[sejarzo]

[EDIT: Removed yet more confusing info based on incorrect diagram in online manual for Lanny's preamp.]

 

[daltonlanny]

ASR is correct,
I am talking about if I were to use a Marantz SA11S1 with my HeadAmp GS-X, for example, not with my Parasound preamp.
Can anyone tell me if the balanced outs sound better than its single-ended RCA outs on the Marantz?
By the way, on the back of my Parasound P/LD-2000 preamp, the balanced inputs as well as the balanced outs are labeled as follows:
PIN 1 = GROUND
PIN 2 = +
PIN 3 = -
Thanks again.

 

[Asr]

Well balanced output theoretically is going to always sound better than single-ended due to a higher slew rate and greater noise rejection (reduced interference). Theoretically because not every CDP sounds better balanced than single-ended, but most do. The Marantz SA-11S1 has its DACs configured in dual differential on the XLR which is the key for balanced to sound better than single-ended, so you should notice quite a bit of improvement with it.

 

[Fafner]

Does anyone know what standard does Ray Samuels follow for his amps? Being american I always assumed he uses the american standard; couldn't find anything on the amp. Ofc I just mailed him, but maybe someone already knows it.

Luckily, the Marantz SA-7S1 has a phase switch feature...

 

[sejarzo]

I just checked again to be sure, and the diagram in the online pdf of the manual for the Parasound preamp is indeed incorrect.......it doesn't match up with Lanny's observations.

Virtually all new gear is wired with pin 2 "hot"/pin 3 "cold". The AES adopted that as the standard in 1992, as far as I can tell, and it makes even better sense now to conform to the worldwide standard.

That's why it seems odd to me that Marantz would continue to bring out products for the US market that supposedly conform to "the "American standard" that was revised 15 years ago.

But then again..........it does seem odd that the US is so stubborn in refusing to convert to the metric system, and that's been going on for a lot longer than 15 years!

 

[Tbln]

Lanny,

Seems we are at a similar point in building our balanced rigs.

The Marantz SA11S1 does indeed invert phase through the balanced outputs

.

I mailed Ray about the possible negative effects and possible suggestions to correct this situation and the answer I got from him was that the music would be out of (absolute) phase, but you would not be able to notice it.

Yes, the balanced outputs are indeed better sounding . A greater sense of space and separation are the most obvious differences.

As I had mentioned in another thread, well recorded SACDs sound divine through the SA11S1.

The three selectable filters should allow most folks to find an ideal sound signature.

 

[Ferrari]

The balanced output of the Marantz SA-11S1 uses the old US standard: pin2 = negative, pin 3 = positive.

I 'm from Europe and the European standard is exactly reversed, pin2 = positive, pin 3 = negative, but it's no problem at all.
Just modify the XLR interconnects on one side according to output of the SA-11S1... a job of no more than 15 minutes

.

 

[daltonlanny]

Hey Tbln,
How good do redbook cd's sound on the Marantz SA11S1?
Could you describe how they sound on your unit?
Thanks.

 

[Tbln]

Quote:

Originally Posted by daltonlanny /img/forum/go_quote.gif Hey Tbln, How good do redbook cd's sound on the Marantz SA11S1? Could you describe how they sound on your unit? Thanks.

It does redbook very well.

Comparing the SA11-S1 to the SA8260 (precursor to the SA8001) single ended, the SA11-S1 provides a weightier sound with smooth highs. Though no slouch itself, the SA8260 lost out by comparison.

Given how the law of diminishing returns always rears it's ugly head quickly in audio, the SA11-S1 was superior, but not 3 times better than the SA8260.

But, the balanced outputs (weird wiring aside) take the sound up a few notches and makes the additional costs worthwhile for me.