Does the EMU 0404 PCI "upsample"?
Mar 14, 2007 at 12:02 PM Thread Starter Post #1 of 14

keiron99

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I currently have a Perpetual Technologies DAC which I understand "upsamples" to 96khz. Whatever is happening, I like the sound of it.

Long story short, I'm also considering getting a sound card such as the EMU 0404. The technical specs say that it has sample rates of 4.1 up to 192khz. However, this is followed by the comment "No sample rate conversion is performed". Does this mean that the card doesn't upsample? If not, what does it mean?

My second question is, if I get this card, do I need to install all the drivers and software that come with it, or can I just use Vista's own drivers? I'll simply be using it for unadulterated 2 channel out and maybe the digital out too. I'm trying to keep things as simple as possible!

Thanks
 
Mar 14, 2007 at 2:50 PM Post #2 of 14

EnOYiN

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It does not upsample indeed. I have no idea whether it can, but what it says is means something like this:

If you are playing a 16-bits/44.1 kHz file it will actually play as such. It does not resample it to another bitrate. This is a positive thing most of the times. Your other DAC is resampling the original file. So a 16/44.1 file would become a 16/96 file. Some DACs use this to be able to convert in a better way. A lot of creative cards (if not all) resample from 44.1 to 48. This does not have to have a negative effect as long as the software is written properly.

I am not sure if the EMU can be driven with the generic drivers in vista. I'm sure there will be someone else who knows about it.

Edit: You can use files from 4.1 kHz to 192 kHz files. Most files are 16-bits/ 44.1 kHz. That's because this became a standard for CDs. The EMU can handle other files and sampling rates though.
 
Mar 14, 2007 at 3:04 PM Post #3 of 14

jmmtn4aj

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Upsampling cards usually have DACs only able to produce certain sample rates. In cards like the 2ZS, it has to upsample to 96kHz for the DAC to convert it to analogue signals, because the DAC can't read 44.1kHz streams. In the 0404's case, it only means the card can read up to 192kHz, it doesn't mean all streams have to be upsampled to that sample rate.

Whether the card resamples though, is a different question altogether
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Mar 14, 2007 at 7:35 PM Post #4 of 14

Rempert

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EMU 0404 (PCI version) is capable of handling the following sample rates: 44.1 khz, 48 khz, 88.2 khz, 96 khz, 176.4 khz, and 192 khz. When set to operate at 44.1 khz or 48 khz, any WDM input which does not match that sample rate will be resampled and played (when it claims that "no sample rate conversion is performed", it is actually not true for these settings). At the higher sample rates, no sample rate conversion is performed. The only incoming sounds that will be played are those which match the sample rate.

Example: Let's say you have a 64 kbs .mp3 in which the audio sample rate is only 32 khz. You cannot set the 0404 to this sample rate. However, if you play the song via DirectSound with the EMU set 44.1 khz (or 48 khz), it will be automatically resampled and played. I assume this is just basic AC97 compatibility. However, if you set the EMU to 96 khz and try to play the same song, you hear nothing. In this case, you will have to use a software resampler to resample the song the up to 96 khz, at which point the EMU can play it at that sample rate.
 
Mar 14, 2007 at 8:05 PM Post #5 of 14

keiron99

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Thanks for the replies.

I'm slightly disappointed, because I'm led to believe it's the "upsampling" which gives my current PT DAC its characteristic smooth, "analogue" like sound. I was therefore rather hoping the EMU could do this. I've bought one anyway, for a reasonable price off ebay!
 
Mar 14, 2007 at 8:11 PM Post #6 of 14

EnOYiN

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Quote:

Originally Posted by keiron99 /img/forum/go_quote.gif
Thanks for the replies.

I'm slightly disappointed, because I'm led to believe it's the "upsampling" which gives my current PT DAC its characteristic smooth, "analogue" like sound. I was therefore rather hoping the EMU could do this. I've bought one anyway, for a reasonable price off ebay!



Upsampling is not the most important factor here. It's the DAC itself. If a DAC is interpolating then it will sound better than one which does not at all.

It's the quality of the interpolation that matters in the end.
 
Mar 14, 2007 at 8:11 PM Post #7 of 14

Rempert

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Quote:

Originally Posted by keiron99 /img/forum/go_quote.gif
Thanks for the replies.

I'm slightly disappointed, because I'm led to believe it's the "upsampling" which gives my current PT DAC its characteristic smooth, "analogue" like sound. I was therefore rather hoping the EMU could do this. I've bought one anyway, for a reasonable price off ebay!



Well you are using a computer, after all. That means that not only can you upsample, but you can pick and choose exactly what algorithm you wish to do it with....
 
Mar 14, 2007 at 9:06 PM Post #8 of 14

keiron99

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Quote:

Originally Posted by Rempert /img/forum/go_quote.gif
Well you are using a computer, after all. That means that not only can you upsample, but you can pick and choose exactly what algorithm you wish to do it with....


Sorry, I'm really confused now!
blink.gif
I thought it was established that I cannot upsample with this card? (I won't even ask about algorithms!)
 
Mar 14, 2007 at 9:40 PM Post #9 of 14

EnOYiN

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Quote:

Originally Posted by keiron99 /img/forum/go_quote.gif
Sorry, I'm really confused now!
blink.gif
I thought it was established that I cannot upsample with this card? (I won't even ask about algorithms!)



I have no idea whether the card can actually do it, but you can feed a it with audio content which has already been re/up-sampled.

Example:
Your normal file is 16/44.1. You use a software resampler to make it 24/192 (or whatever you prefer) and feed that to the EMU.

16/44.1 (FLAC/mp3)--> 24/192 (software) --> EMU's DAC --> Music

Edit: a good (software) resampler will let you pick the algorithm. The better the re/up-sampling will be done the more CPU time it will use.
 
Mar 14, 2007 at 11:23 PM Post #10 of 14

Dragon Rider

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Quote:

Originally Posted by keiron99 /img/forum/go_quote.gif

Long story short, I'm also considering getting a sound card such as the EMU 0404. The technical specs say that it has sample rates of 4.1 up to 192khz. However, this is followed by the comment "No sample rate conversion is performed". Does this mean that the card doesn't upsample? If not, what does it mean?

Thanks



I have the 0404 USB which has the same language in the specs ("No sample rate conversion is performed"); however, when I select the 96KHz in the 0404 software control panel prior to 44.1 source playback, the music plays but I really can't tell the difference than when I have selected 44.1 in the control panel. So, I don't know whether the DAC is performing an upsampling or not
redface.gif
 
Mar 15, 2007 at 4:47 AM Post #11 of 14

xantus

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hey just so you know....AFAIK you can't use E-MU products with Vista yet.

see here and scroll down. all they say is "in development"
tongue.gif


I have a 0404 and have yet to get it to work with vista. some japanese site said you could use the old XP drivers but I've yet to have it work.
 
Mar 18, 2007 at 8:52 AM Post #13 of 14

audiofil

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First off: do not mistake oversampling with upsampling.

Second: the quality of over/upsamplings differs GREATLY with the implementation. The presence of it DOES NOT indicate anything as far as sound is concerned.

Third: The EMUs (all of them) oversample their digital input. And most other soundcards for that matter.

The OS filter is 'on chip'. As far as EMU 0404 (pci/usb) is concerned we're talking about 128x oversampling performed by the interpolator included in the AK4396 DAC chip. Have a better look HERE

From technology's and sound's perspective I find delta sigma & oversampling solutions wanting.
 
Mar 18, 2007 at 4:34 PM Post #14 of 14

CSMR

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Quote:

Originally Posted by keiron99 /img/forum/go_quote.gif
Long story short, I'm also considering getting a sound card such as the EMU 0404. The technical specs say that it has sample rates of 4.1 up to 192khz. However, this is followed by the comment "No sample rate conversion is performed". Does this mean that the card doesn't upsample? If not, what does it mean?


I don't know about the 0404 but the CS4398 in the 1212m upsamples internally (according to what I read on this forum, I don't remember where).
You can of course do resampling in software which I would suppose is a little better. Whether upsampling is good depends on the DAC chip I am told and whether it upsamples internally.
Quote:

My second question is, if I get this card, do I need to install all the drivers and software that come with it, or can I just use Vista's own drivers? I'll simply be using it for unadulterated 2 channel out and maybe the digital out too. I'm trying to keep things as simple as possible!


E-MU says vista drivers expected in Q3, betas mid april.
 

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