[nealric]

 And I would like a car that handled really well, but didn't worry too much about acceleration.

 
Miata 

 

[Omega]

If you want a car that handles well and prefer efficiency to acceleration, a small, well-made (ie, rigid) hatchback might be the ticket!  I drive a VW Golf, and despite being a relatively cheap car, it drives very well.  Controlled body dynamics, well-damped multi-link suspension, good driver position, responsive where it needs to be, snappy manual transmission, firm without punishing your backside on a roadtrip, and electromechanical steering that should set the standard in autos.  Fuel efficiency is somewhat lacking for a small car--I routinely get 25 mpg in stop and go traffic and 30-32 mpg highway.  Obviously, the Audi A3 is similar with more robust guts and nicer appointments.  Alternatively, if you are in California, you might be in one of the few places to find a decent used (and relatively low mileage?) BMW 318ti stateside...the automatic was mediocre, but the manual was a great mechanical car if you can find a good one.  Acura Integra/RSX were pretty good too, but again, used.  And there is always the Mini, which is a nice handling car to be sure, and gas efficiency is great, but you'll pay a handsome premium for the PR/marketing/image.  Also, Miata and Honda S2000 come in a nice convertible package.
 
Hehe...yeah, the Lotus is awesome, but where can I put my gym bag?

 

[ford2]

 
 
There is no substitute for cubes.
 

 

[rhythmdevils]

cubes?
 
I would love to have a small car like a miata or mini, or the original Honda Insight for that matter- 60mpg!.  But I have to carry much more than a gym bag unfortunately and like a wagon cause it's still small and handles like a car, but I can put the seat down and sleep in the back.  My first subaru felt like more of a home to me than my apartment.
 
I think I'm going to go with the GT.  we'll see how she handles

 

[ford2]

 
 
http://autospeed.com.au/cms/title_Small-Cars-with-Big-Cubes-Part-One/A_2736/article.html

 

[MaZa]

Quote:

cubes?
 

 
More accurately, "There is no replacement for displacement" meaning the size of engine, cubic inches or liters depending on your measuring system. And its true. If you put two similarly weighting cars with similar power and torque on similar powerband, one just being supercharged smaller engine and one is bigger naturally aspirated, the big one will be noticeably more persistent when accelerating especially on faster speeds. Not necessarily faster in numbers but its different.
 
 

Don't understand why a V8 would be less desirable than a turbo 4 though. A 2011 Mustang GT with the 5.0L V8 gets a respectable 17/26 mpg. My 2009 WRX with a 2.5L turbo F4 gets a near identical 18/25 mpg. The Mustang manages this despite a penalty in curb weight and significantly more power. I know which one I'd rather have.

 
 
Thing is that you have to be very careful and know how to drive economically with large displacement engines. Otherwise you might create a whirlpool in your gastank. But yeah I'd take the Mustang over WRX anyday.

 

[foxxgood]

A turbo from the factory should not effect engine life just look at turbo diesel engines those mercedes turbo diesels will run forever if properly maintained. I would make sure to use synthetic oil depending on where you live because cold weather starts with slow flowing cold oil will starve the turbo of oil and that will kill it over time. Make sure to cool it down (or get a turbo timer) before turning off the car if you have driving hard.

 

[rhythmdevils]

I can't say I'm a fan of Mustangs.  I rented one once and granted it wasn't the GT version, but it not only handled worse than a Civic, it had no power.  It was like there was a big subwoofer under the hood that played engine noise when you hit the gas. 
 
Clearly it's not all about cubes:
 

 

[Uncle Erik]

ford2, I don't entirely disagree, but you have to look at the power:weight ratio. IIRC, a Hayabusa has around 175HP, which isn't much for a car, but is astounding on a bike. Same thing Lotus does - they shave weight everywhere possible.

For a good handling car with fair acceleration, you could do a lot worse than one of the FC3S RX-7s, or the second generation. I had one for a few years and it was the sweetest handling car I've ever driven. Deal neutral in the twisties and was a delight on the highway - no vibration or noise from the rotary. The current ride isn't half bad, either. It's a 5-speed Scion tC with TRD suspension. The stock suspension rides like a decent passenger car, but the TRD stuff makes it handle quite well. Better yet, TRD bits fall under Toyota's warranty.

 

[marvin]

Quote:

I can't say I'm a fan of Mustangs.  I rented one once and granted it wasn't the GT version, but it not only handled worse than a Civic, it had no power.  It was like there was a big subwoofer under the hood that played engine noise when you hit the gas.

Times have changed.
 
The current Mustang with a V6, stick, and Performance package is certainly good enough to play with anything in its < $25k price class.

 

[downsize]

I have been building engines and racing cars for over 20 years .... YES, and kind of power adder reduces an engines life ... PERIOD.
 
How much it reduces the life, depends on a whole lot of different factors.

 

[rhythmdevils]

Quote:

Times have changed.
 
The current Mustang with a V6, stick, and Performance package is certainly good enough to play with anything in its < $25k price class.

unless it's a Subaru Legacy

 

[rhythmdevils]

Quote:

I have been building engines and racing cars for over 20 years .... YES, and kind of power adder reduces an engines life ... PERIOD.
 
How much it reduces the life, depends on a whole lot of different factors.

Can you say more?  That seems to go against what a lot of people are saying. 
 
My friend made a good point.  He had an Eagle Talon and said that at freeway speeds of 70mph, it ran at around 4000rpm.  Many non turbo engines would be running at 2000rpm at the same speed.  So if you look at engine life in terms of number of fires, that's half the lifespan.  But I'm not sure all turbo'd engines run that fast.

 

[ford2]

Quote:

ford2, I don't entirely disagree, but you have to look at the power:weight ratio. IIRC, a Hayabusa has around 175HP, which isn't much for a car, but is astounding on a bike. Same thing Lotus does - they shave weight everywhere possible.

For a good handling car with fair acceleration, you could do a lot worse than one of the FC3S RX-7s, or the second generation. I had one for a few years and it was the sweetest handling car I've ever driven. Deal neutral in the twisties and was a delight on the highway - no vibration or noise from the rotary. The current ride isn't half bad, either. It's a 5-speed Scion tC with TRD suspension. The stock suspension rides like a decent passenger car, but the TRD stuff makes it handle quite well. Better yet, TRD bits fall under Toyota's warranty.

I personally love cubes,the more the merrier.
 
From my fully worked 351 Clevo that resides in a 4x4 F100 to the stump pulling 455 in my Buick,there is Nothing like a big V8 to get the blood pumping.
 
I like my cars like my women,strong and fast,who cares how much it costs to run them.

 

[MaZa]

Quote:

I have been building engines and racing cars for over 20 years .... YES, and kind of power adder reduces an engines life ... PERIOD.
 
How much it reduces the life, depends on a whole lot of different factors.

 
 
That depends if you add turbo to improve efficiency or peak power. Of course it still might reduce lifetime of the engine but we are in the hairsplitting category now. My BMW 530d Turbo Diesel has almost 500000km on it (old taxi) held together with basic mainteance and it is still going without any problems.
 
Point is that if you take care of your car, and unless it has some weak link from the start, turbos lifetime nor its effect on the engine are not the biggest of your problems. Just dont abuse it needlessly.