[MrGreen]

Quote:

Originally Posted by subtle /img/forum/go_quote.gif Words.

YASUBP

Quote:

Originally Posted by subtle /img/forum/go_quote.gif First off, it's becoming clearer by the day that you either have an agenda, a hearing deficiency, or both. The only two headphones on your long winded list there that even hold a candle to the HD800 in terms of neutral tonal balance are the JH13 and 4070. All the others? Thanks for the laughs.

Derogatory.

Quote:

Originally Posted by subtle /img/forum/go_quote.gif Second, the HD800 has no subwoofer like qualities, no piercing treble, and no "hocus pocus", unless of course paired with a less than average source and amplifier.

Subjective.

Quote:

Originally Posted by subtle /img/forum/go_quote.gif Please go back to creating more bass deficient mixes with your K701/2.

Derogatory and the implication here is technically incorrect. A well-mastered track with a headphone that is relatively neutral in frequency response but low in bass impact (and thus has a "tipped up" sound ala K701 - if we're going by the "no bass" argument, anyway) would result in an overly bassy presentation. The product of acix's work - whatever it may be - is not the result of the K701, but rather the result of his mastering.

I don't like misinformation. I've also reported you for the manner in which you address this man in your post in the hope you will eventually clean-up your act.

Not to mention that, if your profile is accurate, you have just made passing comments on headphones you have never even heard.

Good day, sir.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Graphicism /img/forum/go_quote.gif So are D5000, HD650 for that matter and they are most certainly not reference! I believe it's all marketing BS and some people are getting too carried away with it.

I agree. Theres a huge element of marketing in the term "reference"

Quote:

Originally Posted by Acix /img/forum/go_quote.gif There are members here who have bought the HD800 and the T1 and feel they have the best headphones out there, but they don't understand what they're hearing.

huh???

Quote:

Originally Posted by Acix /img/forum/go_quote.gif Sennheisers not trying to sell them as a reference hps. So, why you insist?

Yes they are. Well, a statement headphone I guess, but they certainly throw the "reference" pony around when talking about the HD800

 

[jude]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Acix /img/forum/go_quote.gif ....Now, I hope you'll understand why I said... There are members here who have bought the HD800 and the T1 and feel they have the best headphones out there, but they don't understand what they're hearing. and this include you, MacedonianHero, subtle, DavidMahler, (Looks DavidMahler is in the right direction checking out the K-1000 versions). Maybe the 800 are very fun out of the ipod or some tubes, but they are not reference hp by any mean. Even Sennheisers not trying to sell them as a reference hps. So, why you insist?

Include me on that list, too, then, of people who you say don't understand what they're hearing.

Picking out just one from your list: If you're telling me that the HD280 is more neutral than the HD800, then we definitely hear differently.

And that's the thing: You present your opinions as fact, and then judge other people's hearing based on your "fact." Here's a fact for you: You're a huge AKG fan. Nothing wrong with that, obviously. What you can't seem to accept, however, is that not everyone else necessarily is. I like and own AKG headphones, but none of them sound anywhere near the overall performance of the HD800 to my ears. I feel so strongly about that, and yet I can do so without coming to the conclusion that anyone who doesn't agree with me doesn't understand what he's hearing.

 

[TheWuss]

Amen, Jude. Let's please let cooler heads prevail, guys.
I have only been on this forum for 4 months, but have grown rather sick of the arguing.

It doesn't matter who instigates or who spreads misinformation, one thing is always true: when someone responds, it escalates. plain and simple.

Please, let's keep this forum sane.
Because newbies like me enjoy reading.
But not the posts with hatred, venom, and childish bickering.

 

[aimlink]

Quote:

Originally Posted by jude /img/forum/go_quote.gif Include me on that list, too, then, of people who you say don't understand what they're hearing. Picking out just one from your list: If you're telling me that the HD280 is more neutral than the HD800, then we definitely hear differently. And that's the thing: You present your opinions as fact, and then judge other people's hearing based on your "fact." Here's a fact for you: You're a huge AKG fan. Nothing wrong with that, obviously. What you can't seem to accept, however, is that not everyone else necessarily is. I like and own AKG headphones, but none of them sound anywhere near the overall performance of the HD800 to my ears. I feel so strongly about that, and yet I can do so without coming to the conclusion that anyone who doesn't agree with me doesn't understand what he's hearing.

I'm inclined to feel that Acix's arguments on this thread has little to do with his personal preference for AKG or anyone else's preference for a reference sound vs a coloured and more fun one. His contributions to this thread have been about which headphones should be considered of reference quality. He clearly feels that AKG carry the torch in this regard. This is IMO, the point to debate. His list does not only include AKG's. Whether or not a can provides reference quality sonics has little to do with your liking or disliking it. Not unless you happen to arbitrarily feel that if you're serious about your music ( as head-fi'ers, we supposedly all like hi-fi sound), then you will like a reference grade can and hence, any can is considered to be reference grade if and only if you like it and consider it to be reference grade.

I can certainly see with the remark that one may not be understanding what he's hearing in terms of balance and whether a can is reference grade. You need some point of reference to start from. A point of reference that you're very familiar with. Acix is a recording engineer and engineers tend to calaborate and share views etc. I'm more inclined to listen and take his POV more seriously than a couple quasi know it all's who feel that since they have a couple high end cans, then they have a grip on what balanced really means and sounds like in the world of audio.

We talk about the loudness wars in music reproduction? There are wars in headphone reproduction since it would seem to me that the newer cans are becoming more coloured to provide 'excitement' and 'musicality'. What's that anyway??? Does that have anything to do with whether or not one is listening to reference grade sound or is it that if this happens to be the case, then it's just coincidental? We confuse the two and are confusing taste with what's more objective discussion.

 

[cAsE sEnSiTiVe]

Quote:

Originally Posted by jude /img/forum/go_quote.gif Include me on that list, too, then, of people who you say don't understand what they're hearing. Picking out just one from your list: If you're telling me that the HD280 is more neutral than the HD800, then we definitely hear differently. And that's the thing: You present your opinions as fact, and then judge other people's hearing based on your "fact." Here's a fact for you: You're a huge AKG fan. Nothing wrong with that, obviously. What you can't seem to accept, however, is that not everyone else necessarily is. I like and own AKG headphones, but none of them sound anywhere near the overall performance of the HD800 to my ears. I feel so strongly about that, and yet I can do so without coming to the conclusion that anyone who doesn't agree with me doesn't understand what he's hearing.

X1000!

 

[subtle]

Quote:

Originally Posted by MrGreen /img/forum/go_quote.gif YASUBP

Do you enjoy amusing yourself often with acronyms that only you understand? Pretty infantile.

Quote:

Originally Posted by MrGreen /img/forum/go_quote.gif Derogatory.

Subjective.

Quote:

Originally Posted by MrGreen /img/forum/go_quote.gif Subjective.

Wrong.

Quote:

Originally Posted by MrGreen /img/forum/go_quote.gif I don't like misinformation.

I didn't provide any.

Quote:

Originally Posted by MrGreen /img/forum/go_quote.gif I've also reported you for the manner in which you address this man in your post in the hope you will eventually clean-up your act.

That's pretty fresh coming from you. We already covered this in the other thread. Please put me on your ignore list and don't bother addressing me in the future.

Quote:

Originally Posted by MrGreen /img/forum/go_quote.gif Not to mention that, if your profile is accurate, you have just made passing comments on headphones you have never even heard.

Please learn to decipher between the words had, have, and heard. Nowhere in my profile have I listed every headphone I have heard.

Quote:

Originally Posted by MrGreen /img/forum/go_quote.gif Good day, sir.

Is this your Willy Wonka impression?

 

[oqvist]

I am out of pop corn

 

[cAsE sEnSiTiVe]

I don't think even Orville Redenbacher ever made enough for this thread...

 

[MacedonianHero]

Quote:

Originally Posted by aimlink /img/forum/go_quote.gif There are wars in headphone reproduction since it would seem to me that the newer cans are becoming more coloured to provide 'excitement' and 'musicality'.

But you're on the record for never having heard the HD800 or T1 so how can you make such generalizations?

 

[Acix]

Quote:

Originally Posted by SP Wild /img/forum/go_quote.gif Its a crying shame that Acix is the only member to champion this idea (with a certain bias to a specific brand) with sound reason and common sense - only to be shot down by loyal "elitists" that will not allow members with a lesser budget to enter their realm of "knowledge". You are 100 percent at "reference" when you are listening to a lot of reasonably priced phones. I will say it again. What headphones do studio engineers use to "reference" their recording?

You are right. I wasn't looking at this discussion as an elitist issue, but maybe I'm a little naÏve and didn't really take that into consideration. Afterall, I'm just here to discuss sound, not play politics.

I'll give an analogy for this. If you own an F1, it doesn't automatically make you a race car driver. It just means that you have a Formula 1. You could buy one if you have the money and you can even drive it around the block. There will always be people who say, "Wow, the hype is real!" and there will be other people who say "What is he doing?" BTW, as we all know, race car drivers need training and experience and sometimes it can take years. By the same token, a race car driver can also drive a VW GTI and still appreciate it for what it is.

 

[Acix]

Quote:

Originally Posted by jude /img/forum/go_quote.gif Include me on that list, too, then, of people who you say don't understand what they're hearing. Picking out just one from your list: If you're telling me that the HD280 is more neutral than the HD800, then we definitely hear differently. And that's the thing: You present your opinions as fact, and then judge other people's hearing based on your "fact." Here's a fact for you: You're a huge AKG fan. Nothing wrong with that, obviously. What you can't seem to accept, however, is that not everyone else necessarily is. I like and own AKG headphones, but none of them sound anywhere near the overall performance of the HD800 to my ears. I feel so strongly about that, and yet I can do so without coming to the conclusion that anyone who doesn't agree with me doesn't understand what he's hearing.

First of all, aimlink gave you the best answer I could ever expect. He totally gets exactly where I'm coming from and I'm glad that I wasn't the one that had to explain it. It seems that you didn't even look at the topic of the thread. It's fun vs. reference, not personal preference. There's another thread for that discussion.

I'm really surprised and disappointed to see you get caught up in this emotional drama. But I'm glad you didn't call me an AKG employee or promoter. I hope you really understand what aimlink said. This isn't a personal issue with me, I'm just discussing my perspective and my experience with reference hps. Any facts I discuss are solely based on my experience and if you don't agree with me, it's fine. Jude, I have a lot of respect for you, as you know, but seems like today you crossed the line. And yes, I'll be happy to add you to the list.

 

[MacedonianHero]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Acix /img/forum/go_quote.gif First of all, aimlink gave you the best answer I could ever expect. He totally gets exactly where I'm coming from and I'm glad that I wasn't the one that had to explain it. It seems that you didn't even look at the topic of the thread. It's fun vs. reference, not personal preference. There's another thread for that discussion. I'm really surprised and disappointed to see you get caught up in this emotional drama. But I'm glad you didn't call me an AKG employee or promoter. I hope you really understand what aimlink said. This isn't a personal issue with me, I'm just discussing my perspective and my experience with reference hps. Any facts I discuss are solely based on my experience and if you don't agree with me, it's fine. Jude, I have a lot of respect for you, as you know, but seems like today you crossed the line. And yes, I'll be happy to add you to the list.

How on God's earth were you "discussing your perspective and experience" when you called out all Head-fiers who prefer the HD800 over your most beloved AKGs for "not knowing what they are listening too"?

Or better yet calling us owners of F1 automobiles and not know how to drive them? Not a good way to make friends I think.

It was you who made the personal attacks. Go ahead and critic the gear, but when you go beyond that and accuse people of not knowing what they're listening too...that's crossing the line.

You know what, I've had my ears now for going on 38 years and I think I know how to use them just fine thank you. I've played trumpet in various jazz bands on the side for more than 20 years so I know music too.

Just because you ripped a so called "album" in your basement with your girlfriend does not make you the be all and end all authority of what I am hearing and that is my issue with you.

Come on Eddie...grow up. What did you expect from those of us who disagree with your extreme fanbous nature?

FTR, it was you who "crossed the line!"

 

[tvrboy]

If I'm listening to electric guitar or computer produced dance music, i will go for colored. If I'm listening to classical, i will go for flat, cause I know what live music sounds like.

 

[gopack87]

Quote:

Originally Posted by tvrboy /img/forum/go_quote.gif If I'm listening to electric guitar or computer produced dance music, i will go for colored. If I'm listening to classical, i will go for flat, cause I know what live music sounds like.

+1

 

[Aynjell]

I guess I don't know what I prefer. All my cans tend to be fun though, even my closest to reference can is considered fun by many... and I drive them all with a tube amp. Can't really say anything about my setup is nuetral.