Do you believe in Burn-In?
Nov 7, 2009 at 4:24 AM Post #16 of 221

SleepyOne

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Quote:

Originally Posted by AmanGeorge /img/forum/go_quote.gif
Burn-in definitely exists. Maybe it varies from component to component, but I have no doubt that at least in the case of the K701/2, burn in exists and is significant.


X2 for 701
 
Nov 7, 2009 at 4:26 AM Post #17 of 221

nycdoi

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From what i know
people like Ray Samuel, Jerry Harvey and many others suggested their products DO sound better after burn-in.

however i have a mix feeling for this.
One of my phones(SE530) do sound better after awhile, like an hour of burning(i did not listen during that time so i obviously noticed the difference).
which doesn't make sense since balanced armatures do not require burn in isn't it?
My k701 sounded ALMOST the same after 90hours.
 
Nov 7, 2009 at 4:28 AM Post #18 of 221

Slides

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All I can say is that any new piece of sound hardware I have bought has always disappointed me a little at first (maybe because of how much I paid!), but has almost always gotten better or at the very least changed sonically within a relatively short period of time.

I'm guessing it's largely psychological.
 
Nov 7, 2009 at 4:41 AM Post #19 of 221

cujobob

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There is nothing to 'believe in' ...it is proven to be accurate that drivers change over time and eventually flatten out. There are a number of reasons for this...here's an article that discusses burn-in for speakers: http://www.gr-research.com/burnin.htm


What happens psychologically is that your frame of reference for how something sounds is set by what you normally listen to. When something different is introduced, you are comparing what you've previously accepted to what you're now introduced to. It's widely accepted that people (not necessarily experienced audiophiles) prefer 'brighter' sounding equipment during short demos...this leads them to believe what they've listened to is more detailed.

I don't know how audible electrical burn-in is, but some people I respect swear by it. Every device will burn-in differently...some pieces of gear tend to take a long time to sound their best, others there's little to no difference from the first listen to one after 500 hours.
 
Nov 7, 2009 at 5:30 AM Post #20 of 221

abellaw

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I am not sure if I believe in burn in or not but I have burned in every set of headphones I have had. I think of it like this...burn in doesnt cost me anything so it doesn't hurt to try it.

But if I had to put money on it the 'dramatic' change that i have heard during burn in. Is more mental than anything else
 
Nov 7, 2009 at 5:41 AM Post #21 of 221

Shike

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It very much depends on mechanical properties. I believe electrical burn-in is mostly hogwash. It may take time to warm up and become stable, but once it reaches proper operating temperatures, etc, it's ready to go.

On the mechanical front we're looking at motor structures. I firmly believe that burn-in in headphones isn't going to make a dramatic result compared to a subwoofer. One has a much heavier motor structure made to operate at much greater SPLs. On the other hand take a look at some headphones and you're seeing the equivalent of a tweeter. If these burn-in at all it's going to happen extremely fast. Considering this it's reasonable to say some subtle changes may happen within a few hours of usage, but beyond that you're altering your perceptions based on psychological aspects.
 
Nov 7, 2009 at 6:13 AM Post #22 of 221

cujobob

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Tweeters are designed much differently and use different technologies (ribbon, dome, planar, etc.). They're more similar to sensitive full-range drivers, I'd guess. And those are known for needing a lot of time to burn-in/break-in.

For my M-Audio Q40s...probably took about 40-50 hours for them to sound acceptable. I did just brief listening at various points until then and the bass completely overpowered the rest of the music, it was not quick, everything was blurred together. After burning them in for a few days, I put them on again and they sounded acceptable outside of some weird sibilance I can't get rid of.
 
Nov 7, 2009 at 6:22 AM Post #23 of 221

Feather225

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people say dynamic need burn in and balance armature doesn't... why does it matter though lol
 
Nov 7, 2009 at 6:51 AM Post #24 of 221

Crazy*Carl

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Same thing is flac that much more amazing than mp3? I just did a 128kbit test vs flac, and there was no apparent difference. I'm not saying there isnt, but the differences are all relatively small, like most things on head-fi. Without a doubt the most significant effect on you music experience is the headphones themselves. I have done many tests with all the equipment and software I have, and the only one that is in your face noticeable is switching from the HD485 to the HD580, even straight out of an ipod. Huge increase in clarity.
 
Nov 7, 2009 at 6:58 AM Post #26 of 221

roadcykler

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I think if you repeat something long enough it seems to be true e.g. AKG K701's. My contention is, if you listen to a song via new pair of headphones, take them off, play some song(s) or pink noise on a loop for XX number of hours and then listen again, there may be a noticeable difference. If you listen to them daily or several times a week, if there is a burn in difference, the change would occur so slowly as to be not discernible except in the psychological realm.
 
Nov 7, 2009 at 7:05 AM Post #27 of 221

Shike

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Quote:

Originally Posted by cujobob /img/forum/go_quote.gif
Tweeters are designed much differently and use different technologies (ribbon, dome, planar, etc.). They're more similar to sensitive full-range drivers, I'd guess. And those are known for needing a lot of time to burn-in/break-in.


Look at the construction material and weight of the two though. We're talking treated mylar (or similar light rigid material) and an extremely light motor structure. Also, 100dB on your head is different from 100dB at your position from a larger speaker three meters away.

I see little to no way that you're going to stress that structure into really yielding a significant difference through normal music and test tones. If anything is going to loosen up it's going to happen relatively fast or just won't happen.

I guess the reason question is whether the surround material of the driver will loosen or not, and how long will it take to make it do so. At the SPL and mass of the driver itself . . . it just doesn't seem really feasible.
 
Nov 7, 2009 at 7:10 AM Post #28 of 221

i_love_hina

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How come no one has ever just gotten a new pair of headphones and compared it out of the box to an older, broken in pair? Doesn't seem very hard to do, and would settle this issue once and for all.

Until then, I don't believe in burn-in.
 
Nov 7, 2009 at 7:14 AM Post #29 of 221

cyberidd

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I believe in burn in. With both my DT770s and Turbines I was disappointed when first listening. After having burned them in I feel the sound changed greatly. I know only use them from time to time, but my brother uses them for hours daily, yet when I do use them their sound no longer seems to have changed. On the other hand, my DT990s which I bought used did not seem to change at all except when I added the Compass to my rig. I do believe that some burn in is psychological, but do not believe that is the only factor at play.
 
Nov 7, 2009 at 7:17 AM Post #30 of 221

MadMan007

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Quote:

Originally Posted by i_love_hina /img/forum/go_quote.gif
How come no one has ever just gotten a new pair of headphones and compared it out of the box to an older, broken in pair? Doesn't seem very hard to do, and would settle this issue once and for all.

Until then, I don't believe in burn-in.



I've read a number of cases on here from people who have no agenda and are trustworthy that have done this and say there's a difference.

There is definitely a psychological aspect to it but that doesn't mean it's just psychological. I've burned in stuff with just occasional listening and noticed changes.
 

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