"Do I need an amp?" Well, I'm glad you asked...
Feb 8, 2015 at 3:10 AM Post #91 of 115
Again, as Brooko so brutally illustrated, the author has no idea.


lol. i went back to see what you were talkin abt and brooko is politely disagreed with three headphone assessments and stated that this is a great resource that cld use further refinement... lol? simply a difference in opinion due to the grading scale. all those headphones do indeed reach listenable volumes without an amplifier as per their specs & real world tests. The issue he is talking about is scaling performance & saying some headphones do not reach their optimal performance without additional power even though they reach adequate volume and that should be noted in the comments.

the author does have an idea what he is doing, is using the relevant specs and correct calculations, and has done research into this. there are places for improvement due to amplifier manufactors providing incomplete specs, other variables in amplifier performance, and the subjective nature of performance scaling with amplifiers. however, as an objective resource, it is quite detailed and performs the function it is intended to.

lol. i seriously dont understand what u r trying to accomplish or contribute to this thread.
 
Feb 8, 2015 at 3:27 AM Post #92 of 115
so basically how one would use this resource is:

1) starting with their headphones
-find suitable amplifiers within their budget that provides enough power to their headphones, do further research from there - ask people who own both about the pairing or read through impressions of the headphone/amp pairing or go demo themselves. it focuses down your search and reveals options you may not have thought about before.

2) starting with their amplifier
-can rule out which headphones require more power than your amplifier provides, do further research from there on headphone sound signatures to see what meets your needs and requirements.

Yes, this resource is helpful. No, it is not intended to be a replacement for personal listening or further personal research. hope that is helpful clearing up things for you.

hope this thread can get back on topic & continue to be a place for information sharing rather than negativity without constructive feedback.
 
Feb 8, 2015 at 7:48 AM Post #93 of 115
so basically how one would use this resource is:

1) starting with their headphones
-find suitable amplifiers within their budget that provides enough power to their headphones, do further research from there - ask people who own both about the pairing or read through impressions of the headphone/amp pairing or go demo themselves. it focuses down your search and reveals options you may not have thought about before.

2) starting with their amplifier
-can rule out which headphones require more power than your amplifier provides, do further research from there on headphone sound signatures to see what meets your needs and requirements.

Yes, this resource is helpful. No, it is not intended to be a replacement for personal listening or further personal research. hope that is helpful clearing up things for you.

hope this thread can get back on topic & continue to be a place for information sharing rather than negativity without constructive feedback.

+1 to this
 
Feb 8, 2015 at 11:02 AM Post #94 of 115
lol. i went back to see what you were talkin abt and brooko is politely disagreed with three headphone assessments and stated that this is a great resource that cld use further refinement... lol? simply a difference in opinion due to the grading scale. all those headphones do indeed reach listenable volumes without an amplifier as per their specs & real world tests. The issue he is talking about is scaling performance & saying some headphones do not reach their optimal performance without additional power even though they reach adequate volume and that should be noted in the comments.

the author does have an idea what he is doing, is using the relevant specs and correct calculations, and has done research into this. there are places for improvement due to amplifier manufactors providing incomplete specs, other variables in amplifier performance, and the subjective nature of performance scaling with amplifiers. however, as an objective resource, it is quite detailed and performs the function it is intended to.

lol. i seriously dont understand what u r trying to accomplish or contribute to this thread.


Ummm....the author had no idea what it took to drive those cans, regardless of his calculations. That's (as an example) what makes the whole thing useless. This isn't just about a headphone making a sound.

Edit: this covers both of your posts.
 
Feb 8, 2015 at 11:52 AM Post #95 of 115
Ummm....the author had no idea what it took to drive those cans, regardless of his calculations. That's (as an example) what makes the whole thing useless. This isn't just about a headphone making a sound.

Edit: this covers both of your posts.


I am honestly not sure what you are trying to argue. Calculating power requirements of headphones to reach a certain volume level based on impedance and sensitivity seems quite self-explanatory. Performance scaling with amplifiers is an entirely different & more subjective topic, though there are also measurements that can help us with that.

here are some more resources for you I recommend you read to better understand the objective side of amplifier performance and what we are calculating with this resource.

http://www.innerfidelity.com/content/nwavguys-heaphone-amp-measurement-recommendations
http://www.head-fi.org/t/607282/headphone-amp-impedance-questions-find-the-answers-here
http://www.apexhifi.com/specs.html
http://www.headphone-amplifier.com/calculator.htm
 
Feb 8, 2015 at 11:57 AM Post #96 of 115
I am honestly not sure what you are trying to argue. Calculating power requirements of headphones to reach a certain volume level based on impedance and sensitivity seems quite self-explanatory. Performance scaling with amplifiers is an entirely different & more subjective topic, though there are also measurements that can help us with that.

here are some more resources for you I recommend you read to better understand the objective side of amplifier performance and what we are calculating with this resource.

http://www.innerfidelity.com/content/nwavguys-heaphone-amp-measurement-recommendations
http://www.head-fi.org/t/607282/headphone-amp-impedance-questions-find-the-answers-here
http://www.apexhifi.com/specs.html
http://www.headphone-amplifier.com/calculator.htm


No offence, I do understand the objective side of amplifier performance.

Edit: When I was a kid just starting out in the hobby, I was given an old equalizer. I had no amp, so I hooked up my little no-name bookshelves to the EQ. It made a sound. That's essentially the equivalent thrust of the site.
 
Feb 8, 2015 at 12:01 PM Post #97 of 115
No offence, I do understand the objective side of amplifier performance.


No offense, but from the content of your posts, I would recommend further reading.
 
Feb 8, 2015 at 12:23 PM Post #98 of 115
This is a interesting presentation about some of the important objective measurements for audio equipment performance.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=BYTlN6wjcvQ&feature=related


I've seen it. Ethan is a regular on my home forum. We all participate in the same discussions. In fact, it was his advice that helped me with the room treatments.
 
Feb 8, 2015 at 12:37 PM Post #99 of 115
I've seen it. Ethan is a regular on my home forum. We all participate in the same discussions. In fact, it was his advice that helped me with the room treatments.


Okay, good. So you must be familiar with this quote then:

Audio Gear by the Numbers

Aside from gear that’s intentionally colored for effect, the design goal for most audio equipment is to be audibly transparent. This is defined as having audio fidelity high enough that people won’t notice any degradation when sending signal through the device.

If a device has a frequency response that’s flat within 0.1 dB from 20 Hz to 20 kHz, and the sum of all noise and distortion is at least 80 dB below the music, that device can be considered audibly transparent. The majority of today’s audio devices meet this criteria, including most budget models. Even when a device doesn’t fully meet these tight specs, the quality can still be acceptable for most applications. A response that’s down 1 or 2 dB at the frequency extremes is still very good, and distortion that’s only 60 dB down is still inaudible on most sources. Distortion at this level is roughly equivalent to 0.1 percent of the total signal.
 
Feb 8, 2015 at 12:39 PM Post #100 of 115
Okay, good. So you must be familiar with this quote then:


Yes, I've been hearing it for decades. It's a nice dream to believe. Doesn't mean it's true in practice, as per my experience and that of thousands of others.

Edit: As a side note, my closest friend bought HD650. He likes to believe the dream, so he also bought an O2. Once he heard my Corda Concerto, he ordered a Classic the next day. One can theorize as much as he likes, but when it comes to listening the truth comes out.
 
Feb 8, 2015 at 6:47 PM Post #101 of 115
Just for curiosity's sake, are you guys actually listening to music as you type? I'd be interested to know what I need to avoid. It sure as hell isn't Leonard Cohen. Or The Monkees.
 
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Feb 8, 2015 at 7:53 PM Post #102 of 115
FWIW, I started out on RAO (Usenet) 20 years ago and have debated this topic with Jim Johnston, Arny Krueger, Tom Nousaine, etc. The threads went on for years. This, well, is audio for the noob, the ignorant and the inexperienced. Sorry, but that's the truth of it.

 
Yes exactly, this is a Thread and A "helping Hand" for people with no experience (UNLIKE YOU) that for the most part do not have the budget to buy the best of the best or whatever thy want (APPARENTLY UNLIKE YOU.)  It is in no way a "go and do this, this is the only thing that works" solution, it was made and works fantasticly as a steppingstone for these inexperienced Head-fiers to find Good recommendations without going through twohundred and a quasilion postes to get a general idea. 
 
Ofcourse there will ALWAYS be other alternativs and combinations, but flaming the maker and/or the webpage he made does not making it better. Hell it does not help in any way. And even if you can with  tweeking or other form of customisation make something many people would not look 2 times at, does not mean it must be included.
 
OH And, yes YOU started with experimenting and experiencing sound many many many years ago, but the world changes. And even if you feel that one DAC/AMP is fantastic, that may not be the general consensus, This is sound, it is Subjectiv. and yes Listening to a device and setup is always best, but the numbers can give you a general idea in the right directions (espesialy with a little bit of explanaton regarding terms and how they work) and there are also very few places where you can actualy go and listen to the particular setup you want. (and even if there are several around where you live, I know for a fakt that the closest to me personaly is 2-3 hours away by plane)
 
and lastly Jim Johnston, Arny Krueger, Tom Nousaine and so on. I do not think thy EVER discussed THIS TOPIC. Because this topic is originaly about http://www.audiobot9000.com, so that new folks would have somewhere to look at information reguarding a spesific headset along with a spesific dac/amp. and also so that more experienced people could say "hey you should add some tooltips" or "I think you should tailor the comments for each headphone." (of course along with adding an example and/or explanation of why the maker should do this.) and trothfully i find most of your comments have nothing to do with this... ergo you are off-topic. 
 
on that bombshell ill say (could we tag this thread as important (better yet make a new one to remove any flaming) so this stays at the top/beginning of this Board?
 
Sincerely, Shin Ookami 
(ps: I hope the audiobot9000 will continiue to expand the selection of headsets headphones and IEM's and Dac's/amp's {I see more and more people wondering about the fearly new ATH-AD 900x and 700x and there brothers and sisters.[amongst others] } )
 
Feb 10, 2015 at 8:15 AM Post #104 of 115
This whole thread has become utterly pointless.

edit - Sorry to the OP. I don't mean the whole thread is useless at all. It's an excellent resource. It was just getting out of hand a bit with all the argueing to and fro.
 
Feb 10, 2015 at 2:05 PM Post #105 of 115
some headphones do not reach their optimal performance without additional power even though they reach adequate volume and that should be noted in the comments.
 


This is simply not true. That additional power will never be used unless you increase the volume. Extra power only does one thing--increase the volume. There is no magic pathway for power to follow that increases sound quality without increasing volume. 

The above statement assumes that an amp is operating within its current and voltage limitations. There could be cases where an amp cannot provide enough current or voltage into load A even though a calculation based on power into load B suggests otherwise . But that is just a matter of using the correct calculation and enough data--you may need more information than only an amplifier's published specs. 

Please note that I'm not saying all amplifiers with similar power specs sound the same. I agree that some headphones "scale" with amplification. But it's not a question of power. 

Also, nice work OP. This is a great resource as long as it's not taken as the final word in whether or not a given amp will sound good with a given headphone. 
 

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