[Samgotit]

The Chinese officials should just spit in the face of each legitimate athlete competing for every other county.

I would have more respect for that.

Still, the girls were phenomenal. Their ages don't take away from their individual performances.

 

[manaox2]

As was said, there were other competitors under age in other countries that desperately wanted to compete. The head of the US Gymnastics girls team specifically mentioned a talented German 17 year old who could not compete.

If you want to keep asking why it matters and who does it effect, I would think of them. This is why China had an actual unfair advantage, other country's athletes were denied the opportunity to compete.

 

[ClieOS]

The IOC already ruled in favorite of the Chinese athletes stating that the Chinese officials have provided more than enough evidences (birth certificate, old and new passport, ID, etc) to prove the age of those girls. However, I can still see plenty of conspiracy theories from the years to come. Oh well, guess we just have to pick a side to believe in... or not.

 

[flashnolan]

I would not be surprised if she were not of age purely by the context of the country we are talking about.

 

[manaox2]

Quote:

Originally Posted by ClieOS /img/forum/go_quote.gif The IOC already ruled in favorite of the Chinese athletes stating that the Chinese officials have provided more than enough evidences (birth certificate, old and new passport, ID, etc) to prove the age of those girls. However, I can still see plenty of conspiracy theories from the years to come. Oh well, guess we just have to pick a side to believe in... or not.

Hard to deny evidence from government documents that were found to support that they were not of age. Other countries teams, notably the US team, admitted to having seen these documents showing that they were not of age. These documents released by the Government were on the internet for all to see on Government domains. If anything, it says that the Government is confused as to how old they are at the least.

I don't think the other teams and countries would go so far to publicly make these claims if they did not believe it and have some evidence, it would be an ultimate show of bad sportsmanship. Of course the IOC had to rule in favor of the Chinese Gov., they wouldn't call the government responsible for forging documents themselves at the one event the world gathers for. Most people would surely admit, they did not visually appear to be of age.

 

[flame]

Quote:

Originally Posted by ClieOS /img/forum/go_quote.gif The interesting thing is, U.S. media used to use total gold medal count in all the previous Olympic (that I can remember of) to list down the countries ranking, but now they use total medal count instead. Who could say there isn't a bit of sour grape mentality in it? There are quite a few countries entered the woman gymnastic final, why do I saw more U.S. media concern about the age of the Chinese girls than any other countries? If any of the participating countries has a problem / question, than they should let their governing official deal with IOC directly, not the media.

LOL +1 I realized that too!

Whether or not they are underage, we will soon to hear from IOC. One thing gets into me is that, is it because China has won gold metal and as a result most people pick on the underage issue? Let's say China didn't make it to the final and others took the gold, then what would everyone's reaction be? I bet no one even bother talking nor concerning about it, which i think is kinda sad, because no one pays attention to you when you are nobody.

Okay let's ASSUME they are legal age and talk about the smaller body, um...i often hear western people making comments about asians are tiny and skinny, yet a lot of people find it fascinating here in Olympic?

 

[RobR]

Quote:

Originally Posted by immtbiker /img/forum/go_quote.gif A heck of a lot of energy went into gathering those demi-facts and researching all of that proof whether real or not. That's a huge effort. If only we could put that much energy into finding a cure for cancer or applying the roadmap for peace on earth.

Exactly my thoughts.
I do not care whether they are right or wrong.
I just like the conspiracy theory and the amount of effort people put in to this.

 

[DrBenway]

Quote:

Originally Posted by flame /img/forum/go_quote.gif LOL +1 I realized that too! Whether or not they are underage, we will soon to hear from IOC. One thing gets into me is that, is it because China has won gold metal and as a result most people pick on the underage issue? Let's say China didn't make it to the final and others took the gold, then what would everyone's reaction be? I bet no one even bother talking nor concerning about it, which i think is kinda sad, because no one pays attention to you when you are nobody. Okay let's ASSUME they are legal age and talk about the smaller body, um...i often hear western people making comments about asians are tiny and skinny, yet a lot of people find it fascinating here in Olympic?

O.K., I'll admit to being as old as dirt (actually, I've met some dirt that was younger than me). I only bring up my long, erm, experience because it allows me to remember the version of this nonsense that happened during the cold war. The medal count was not USA vs China, it was USA vs the Soviet Union (or as our most senile president called them, "The evil empire"). And the overheated media nonsense was just as STUPID.

 

[tjumper78]

regardless of the age, the chinese girls were simply better than ours. if they broke the rules, then they will be punished.
the way our coaches and tv announcers whined about it was just embarrassing. i dont think any of this issue would have surfaced if we won the golds.
regarding the medal counts, my family and i were asking the same question. "since when did they start going by the total count?"

 

[marvin]

Quote:

Originally Posted by manaox2 /img/forum/go_quote.gif Most people would surely admit, they did not visually appear to be of age.

Visual verification really isn't very good due to the wide range of variation around that age group. All of the Chinese gymnasts are within the plausible height/weight range for a 16 year old by WHO's charts. Granted, some are on the very low end (~ 3%), but that's hardly surprising given the size of their Olympic program and the advantages of lighter gymnasts.

As for the delay in puberty, their intense exercise regimen from a very young age and strictly controlled diet can have a big effect on age of onset. That's also assuming that the Chinese government is above giving drugs to their gymnasts that would delay the onset of puberty.

 

[shigzeo]

you have not seen chinese female badminton team then no? the two rank 3 members look like men with breasts. they smash harder and faster than other contenders and the same goes for table tennis. china don't follow rules certainly as many other countries do not but i would not put them above genetic manipulation just to win a sport

 

[Usagi]

Quote:

Originally Posted by flame /img/forum/go_quote.gif LOL +1 I realized that too! Whether or not they are underage, we will soon to hear from IOC. One thing gets into me is that, is it because China has won gold metal and as a result most people pick on the underage issue? Let's say China didn't make it to the final and others took the gold, then what would everyone's reaction be? I bet no one even bother talking nor concerning about it, which i think is kinda sad, because no one pays attention to you when you are nobody.

Quote:

Originally Posted by tjumper78 /img/forum/go_quote.gif regardless of the age, the chinese girls were simply better than ours. if they broke the rules, then they will be punished. the way our coaches and tv announcers whined about it was just embarrassing. i dont think any of this issue would have surfaced if we won the golds. regarding the medal counts, my family and i were asking the same question. "since when did they start going by the total count?"

In defense of the whinners/complainers. I believe opinions were voiced prior to competition. The controversy was already buzzing. Would there have been as much media coverage if they failed to place? NO. Because no one would have lost a medal as a result. There is always hell to pay when people cheat and therefore cost people medals, endorsements, cash, etc.

In reference to evidence, documents were found online or whatnot that contrasted the age of the gymnasts in question. Therefore other premises exist for an IOC investigation than just a prepubescent physical appearance.

Anyone remember what happened to Marion Jones? The IOC stripped her of all 5 medals won in 2000 and baned her from the Olympics. Subsequently, the local authorities feasted on her left-overs by jailing her for related and unrelated charges.

 

[ClieOS]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Usagi /img/forum/go_quote.gif In reference to evidence, documents were found online or whatnot that contrasted the age of the gymnasts in question. Therefore other premises exist for an IOC investigation than just a prepubescent physical appearance.

There are documents and news report that question as well as there are those that support the age of those girls. Which should have more credit? How do we or IOC know which are forged or not? Until some hard evidence actually come forward, I doubt IOC will choose to believe a hacker / IT guy with something he found online.

 

[Usagi]

Quote:

Originally Posted by ClieOS /img/forum/go_quote.gif There are documents and news report that question as well as there are those that support the age of those girls. Which should have more credit? How do we or IOC know which are forged or not? Until some hard evidence actually come forward, I doubt IOC will choose to believe a hacker / IT guy with something he found online.

Ahhhh, the old burden of proof that seems to be so popular with the West. Can you see the irony in a gov't/nation wishing exoneration based on an ideology they neglect to afford others?

 

[ClieOS]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Usagi /img/forum/go_quote.gif Ahhhh, the old burden of proof that seems to be so popular with the West. Can you see the irony in a gov't/nation wishing exoneration based on an ideology they neglect to afford others?

I can't, at least not in any ironic form / way.

For example: I don't remember any country that fought against the U.S. called their POW as "enemy combatants" just to avoid granting protection under the Geneva Convention. Yet the U.S. government, one which claims to value human right more than any other country does, doesn't seem to have a problem with it. So the same question applies, 'Can you see the irony in a gov't/nation wishing exoneration based on an ideology they neglect to afford others?'

I don't see the irony in both. All I see is the fact that ideology is good on paper and discussion but rarely works in real life, and it doesn't stop people or nation from exploiting it for self-gain. Until we find a more effective way of life (and mind), the old way is here to stay, as ironic as it might seen.