[Distant]

I'm trying to decide between buying an audio-gd compass and a DIY Amp and Dac.

First question
Now minus the equipment I will have to buy to build the amp/dac cann you actually build yourself a better amp/dac then the GD Compass for under 320 bucks? I mean I know it's all subjective... I just don't want to spend more, build it and on top of that end up with a amp/dac of a lesser quality.

More specifically I'm asking about the CTH amp and a Y1 dac, through searching I found a poll a few months ago asking which would be better the CTH/Y1 vs GD Compass, at the time no one really had an answer as no one had both, how about now? Or hell are there even better DIY amp/dacs in this price range?

And what about a DIY amp/dac thats a significant upgrade over the GD compass? I've read that to get a significantly better amp/dac then the GD compass you need to spend 1000+, but what about if you DIY are there kits that would cost say 400-600 that would be significantly better then the GD compass? Or hell even tweaked/upgraded version of the CTH/Y1 would any varied version of these for 400-600 be a signifiacnt improvement over the gd compass?

Finally what's the cost I'm looking at for the equipment I need to DIY?

And again, I know alot of you would probably pick the DIY route over the Compass just for the satisfaction of a DIY project even if the quality was slightly less, but I'm strictly looking for the most for my dollar and don't have any interest in DIY if the end result is lesser equipment. I can overlook the equipment to build it though...

Thx for the help guys

 

[MrSlim]

Well, first of all, I am biased, because I was involved in the proto process of the CTH, but it is an amazing little amp for the price. It is very versatile amp, able to drive many different headphones very well, and the options for varying its personality with different tubes are enormous. For a kit price of around $150, I think its hard to beat.
I have not heard either the y1 or the Compass , which uses an AD1852 DAC (a common chip in the Chinese DACs) , but there are other options. as far as DIY or "semi" DIY DACS... There are some completed boards that are on ebay that need some tweaking to get the best out of them, so that counts as DIY too... as well as doing the casing etc.. Do a search on "noodle dac" , noodledac+ and the "case it yourself" thread started by linuxworks. The Noodledac+ sells for about $110 shipped on ebay NEW Version 24bit/192Hz DAC DA CONVERTER W/ USB Kit - eBay (item 130313033081 end time Jun-25-09 23:11:19 PDT) right now, including a usb input, while the basic noodle dac would need a usb to S/PDif adapter to be able to connect to USB (if you want that). Also check the diyaudio forum diyAudio Forums - Experience with this DIY DAC ? - Page 1 and theartofsound forum CS4397 dac - The Art of Sound Forum for more details on the same boards. There quality leaves something to be desired, but nothing a little solder reflowing wouldn't take care of as well as some better connectors once its installed in a proper case.
I have been debating going that route myself for a second DAC, as well as casting around for other options (the ezdac, Jambo's wolfson based unit.. etc). I have a Silverstone EB01 for my work setup which uses the same DAC chip as the alien and the Bantam), which sounds nice, but I'd like to try something better myself.

All that being said, the y1 is a much more elegant design for sure, and can be built in a much smaller cabinet..

Either of the above (y1 or noodledac+) would probably end up costing around $200 by the time you are finished, so with the CTH, you're looking at about $350.

Equipment wise, you would need the following at the least:
Soldering station, $40
Desoldering pump $10 (for the inevitable mistake corrections)
Digital meter $20
Diagonal cutters and needle nose pliers. $20
so at a minimum you are going to spend $90 for the equipment to get started.
I know Im missing something, but thats a rough estimate for now.

There is the enjoyment of DIY for sure, but you need to consider the number of hours of your time you are going to put into any project.. You have to enjoy that part of it too, or its not going to be fun.

You should have some aptitude and/or interest in electronics, since it isn't always the case of things "just working". You can get lots of assistance on HF if you run into trouble, but you might also want to try something simpler than the CTH first, like a little portable CMOY..

 

[nullstring]

I pretty much in agreement on everything MrSlim has to say.

A few things I want to point out:
the y1 or gamma1 isn't -that- great of a DAC. It is a portable DAC, and FWIR, the noodledac++ is much better. Especially with modifications recommended by diyAudio.

The noodledac fills the desktop DAC gap for before you want to get a twister pear DAC.. which are more expensive.

I would say that $120 is a good estimate for the equipment to get you started. He forgot solder, flux, hookup wire, heat shrink.. and I am sure other things..

There are plenty of diy amps in the $150 range. Do a bit of searching, the CTH is definitely not your only option. The bijou isn't that much more expensive, and might be worth considering.

$300 to $350 to $400(depending on casing and other things) for an amp and DAC in this range

I am also gonna second the CMOY idea. It's a good idea to practice before sinking over $100 in parts that you aren't sure you can actually put together and not destroy.

 

[Distant]

This is all great guys, but I think I failed to give you enough information.

First off the budget including the tools to build this stuff will be roughly 750 Dollars, by roughly I guess I should say 650-850 dollars..

Now first and foremost is this budget enough for me to build an Amp and DAC significantly better then the Audio-GD compass? If you don't have any experience with the compass... I mean I'm sure you've at least seen the compass compared to some equipment you have used..

Next, The headphones this setup is for are the Sony MDR-7509's (NOT the HD's) I don't have really any experience with any other high quality headphones so if your not familiar with how these sound I've seen them described here as boring, by that I mean they are genre neutral, not great at any type of music in particular. And the bass is a bit on the boomy side (I can agree with that)


Based off your post nullstring the twisted pear dac and bijou amp and other amps/dacs in that price range is what I'm looking for.

So based off my price range and headphones could you help me narrow my search down a bit

 

[Currawong]

A Buffalo DAC looks pretty trivial to assemble. A minimal kit with just one input option would squeeze in just enough for a CTH, though that probably wouldn't include cases. I've been thinking of building both for fun, and so I'll have a tube amp as well as SS.

 

[qusp]

I can recommend the twisted pear dacs (any one of the COD, opus or buffalo (the sabre32 is out because of price) as being superior, based on part selection, design and the fact that I have seen them compared very favourably to gear that I have heard andown (gamma1, D10 etc). add a CTH and you are all good. you could build any of them with options for balanced or single ended design, for the next upgrade. they are a doddle to put together and you could even ouse in a tin for the first while if you were running a little short on funds. I think any one of these will beat the compass without any trouble, especially if you go so far as to add a discrete output stage.

 

[hopeless]

I would buy a Super Pro 707 and then (if you're not happy enough) modify it.

Please see the dedicated thread.


Or I would buy me a Little Dot DAC @ $269.

 

[amb]

Quote:

Originally Posted by nullstring /img/forum/go_quote.gif the y1 or gamma1 isn't -that- great of a DAC. It is a portable DAC, ...

I am just curious why you consider γ1 "not that great"? Just because it's small and portable doesn't make it worse. The small size is the result of painstaking design, fitting two well-populated boards into a very tight space. It has just about all the "trimmings" of a high performance DAC, except that it does not have an ASRC or fancy displays and controls.

γ1 has received a lot of good reviews and impressions. Have you ever given the γ1 a good listen?

I don't claim that γ1 is the last word in DACs. Far from it -- but despite the small size and low-ish build-price it has a lot of performance to offer, rivaling many much pricier big guns.

 

[JamesL]

Quote:

Originally Posted by amb /img/forum/go_quote.gif - but despite the small size and low-ish build-price it has a lot of performance to offer, rivaling many much pricier big guns.

I can vouch

I'm using one of the prototype versions and it sounds terrific

 

[linuxworks]

this is the noodedac++ that I'm using:

along with a tube hybrid, for fun. (I have other amps as well)

if you have the OPTION of a diy amp or dac, I would usually choose that over a hong kong item. but the HK items are good for their price/perf ratio.

I would pass on the foreign transformers (power) since I do have some safety concerns about the poor trafo quality I see coming from there. in my ND++ I opted to get the bare board only and not the included trafo. it also saved me $30.

this dac is quite featureful with sample rate upconversion, socketed chips everywhere and even usb-spdif chip is onboard. more than enough power regs to keep anyone happy

the y1 is a good choice for small and portable. it sounds fine and does not deserve 'but its so small!' comments - there really is a lot of 'stuff' on those 2 boards so don't judge on size, alone.

if you can find a DIY builder, go that route. you'll get a unit made with PRIDE and I would be willing to bet, it will be better tested (before shipping) and also probably be using better parts and more safely made.

 

[nullstring]

Quote:

Originally Posted by amb /img/forum/go_quote.gif I am just curious why you consider γ1 "not that great"? Just because it's small and portable doesn't make it worse. The small size is the result of painstaking design, fitting two well-populated boards into a very tight space. It has just about all the "trimmings" of a high performance DAC, except that it does not have an ASRC or fancy displays and controls. γ1 has received a lot of good reviews and impressions. Have you ever given the γ1 a good listen? I don't claim that γ1 is the last word in DACs. Far from it -- but despite the small size and low-ish build-price it has a lot of performance to offer, rivaling many much pricier big guns.

Maybe I am completely wrong. I have no actual experience with either DAC. It was just my impression from reading about both of them.

I did have a FWIR in there.., but I reread it, and it isn't entirely clear.
I apologize if I offended you. I very much appreciate your work, and I could very well be completely off base. I would like it if someone would do a noodle++ DAC fully modded vs gamma1 review... since they aren't often compared directly.

Also never note that i said it was bad.
I would also say that the Benchmark DAC is not -that- good either

 

[hopeless]

Check it out

http://www.head-fi.org/forums/f6/dac...ml#post5774979

 

[MrSlim]

Someone suggested a Bijou as a good amp, which it is, but I would really caution you on that one, since it is a high voltage tube amp (300ish volts), that would take a lot of care in building, and safety. I wouldn't suggest it as a first time build, too dangerous for my liking. I'm generally the conservative type on that sort of thing.

But, now that you have clarified your price range, there is another Cavalli hybrid that is starting to gain steam, called the EHHA, which could probably be built for around $350.00 (Jeff at Glass Jar is selling the board kits for $50 per channel(last time someone mentioned it anyway)) and you would need an S22 power supply, plus a heater supply, case, volume control, connectors etc..

The EHHA is a killer amp, from what everyone is saying, and if it's true, its going to be amazing bang for the buck. It's sound can be tailored to just about any sound you want using varying amounts of negative feedback. There are a few in construction, and a few built, and so far the feedback is very very positive. Check out the EHHA thread on HF.

Given your "new" budget, you could build the EHHA and a Twisted Pear OPUS(still probably $500 by the time you are done casing it up..).

 

[Billyk]

Wow that's pretty cool I have both the Gamma1 and the CTH on deck! I hope to start the CTH this weekend (supposed to rain and it's fathers day so I get out of yard work for a change!) I am very excited about it. I need another $50.00 in parts and I will have what I need for the Gamma1. I think that this will be the way to go for me as I have no $$$ and need to count every penny. Next thing on the list are new cans, anyone have a reccomendation

 

[zkool448]

There are certainly plenty of helpful recommendations and advice here already, but unless you've heard the amp yourself (with your own cans), it’s always a tough decision. If you can, plan to attend a meet locally and listen for yourself what others rave about so you can make an informed decision – no different than buying a car since we all have different tastes, you have a budget so you 'test drive' different makes/models within your price range before you buy.

Also, I generally follow advice from several members I’m well acquainted with their SQ preference and liking. They certainly make decision making effortless for me based on their personal opinions and first hand experiences. Good luck.