DIY Earbuds
Apr 22, 2020 at 8:16 PM Post #1,726 of 4,707
@robar if you still have those b40 shells laying around, have you tried to see if a 15.4mm driver fits them? Looks like the b40 has a pk shaped shell, but doesn't use 14.8mm drivers like the other pk shells.

So you may be able to use your favorite driver on them :).
Thanks for the tip, but nope, it's kind of 14.8mm but of a special shape, I couldnt fit anything else on the shells. I tried every combination, I have several 15mm shells/speakers as well and nothing matches anything lol. It's either too large or too small, zero friction.

I could fit its speakers on the Faaeal Z-sound shell though (but not any other decent 14.8mm shells) Sadly the speakers are in a bad shape and not really useable at this point. I would really like something decent on the Z-sound and I know that regular pk-covers are too small for it. (It came with steel mesh originally) This cklewis speakers have a similar front cover so I kind of hope they would be compatible. (I have regular pk shell as a backup)
 
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Apr 22, 2020 at 9:13 PM Post #1,727 of 4,707
Most of these drivers lacking detail in the treble, so silver-plated copper is a good choice or a bit expensive pure silver cable. If you prefer warm sound, pure copper
is a way to go. Of course, purity of copper is also an important factor but then the price is a little higher.
Thank you for your input, really appreciate it.

I think this is it, at NSC it's called "heavy bass" :) There is a "balanced" and a "clear" version as well with different colored dots, but I haven't tried those. I'm not an expert at cables, I only use cheap ones from aliexpress. What I can say is that as long as the cable is not very thick, it shouldn't really matter much in my opinion. The snapping and the positioning of the tuning foam does. You can go down the rabbit hole of cables if you want, I'm not interested personally. For me it's more of a functional and decorative aspect, I won't pay a fortune for some minor theoretical improvement. (but again, I have no experience with those high-end cables)

By the way I received two cables a few days ago, here's a quick impression:

I had high hopes with this one, but it is really disappointing. Maybe I got a lemon who knows. It's very stiff and thick, plus it makes very annoying stethoscope effect if I touch it. (the stiff cable transmits vibrations too much) I wouldn't recommend it at all for earbuds, maybe it's ok for headphones or something. The knot is so big that the speaker can't fit in many shells, and I think this is one of the few instances where the knot actually has a noticeable impact on sound. https://www.aliexpress.com/item/4000449129490.html?

I really like this one, it looks great and it's pretty soft. I can totally recommend this one. https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32818428493.html
Thanks for your input, robar. I will see what I can find in the local market.
Regarding positioning of tuning foam, with the stem pointing downward, the open end of the horseshoe should be on the upper side, right? I ask because I just realized all my MX500 shells are the 'bundled' type, that have even spacing on top and bottom. I believe the better ones have slightly different spacing, right?

Update: Placed an order for a pair of what's supposed to be the 19-21 drivers :ksc75smile:
 
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Apr 22, 2020 at 10:04 PM Post #1,728 of 4,707
Thank you for your input, really appreciate it.


Thanks for your input, robar. I will see what I can find in the local market.
Regarding positioning of tuning foam, with the stem pointing downward, the open end of the horseshoe should be on the upper side, right? I ask because I just realized all my MX500 shells are the 'bundled' type, that have even spacing on top and bottom. I believe the better ones have slightly different spacing, right?

Update: Placed an order for a pair of what's supposed to be the 19-21 drivers :ksc75smile:
Yes, you cant really put it the other way around honestly :) I wouldnt say the bundled type is worse, its just different. Snapping is much more consistent on the bundled one, but the sound is flatter with less bass. I'll experiment with them more in the future, try some things to bring the bass more forward. Fingers crossed for your purchase! :)
 
Apr 23, 2020 at 3:39 AM Post #1,729 of 4,707
Yes, you cant really put it the other way around honestly :) I wouldnt say the bundled type is worse, its just different. Snapping is much more consistent on the bundled one, but the sound is flatter with less bass. I'll experiment with them more in the future, try some things to bring the bass more forward. Fingers crossed for your purchase! :)

Sure enough..the red dot is sold out.. I'm asking them when it will be back in stock..
In the meantime, they have this turquoise dot hehehe.. Do you recognize this one? It was described as 'high resolution'
Sorry for the many questions, and thanks for the generosity in sharing your experience.

1587627477317.png
 
Apr 23, 2020 at 6:02 AM Post #1,730 of 4,707
Sure enough..the red dot is sold out.. I'm asking them when it will be back in stock..
In the meantime, they have this turquoise dot hehehe.. Do you recognize this one? It was described as 'high resolution'
Sorry for the many questions, and thanks for the generosity in sharing your experience.

You're welcome :) It looks like the 3-way balanced version, I haven't tried those yet. If you check out NSC store on aliexpress, they have all kinds of variations, it could be helpful for you to identify the different versions. I'm on the phone and I can't find a way to share links from the app, but I posted them earlier here
 
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Apr 24, 2020 at 11:17 PM Post #1,731 of 4,707
_20200425_100321.JPG

Ok I've just got my 1mm drill and drilled 2 hole on the shell (I'm still keep the middle hole blocked with Glue). The mid bass is less boomy now and the trebe is less gainy. Look like I go in the right direction :). Will experiment more to see how it going.
Also I i'm going to buy a IEC711 ear simulator to take frequency response chart but I heard that they are not very accurate with earbud. Do you guy have any experience with it? Thanks.
https://m.intl.taobao.com/detail/de...4-1671087311.13.6f0c7b56Wlwp6Y&id=37135316408
 
Apr 29, 2020 at 4:58 AM Post #1,732 of 4,707
I got around to learning how to measure earbuds. I use an adaptor that placed the tip of the mic in the center, that also has some damping foam around to absorb the resonances, and allow ‘mating’ with the earbud face.

4C9379E4-794B-4090-A726-6508847D9DBC.jpeg
E7D68650-5112-474A-95D8-6434103D0CA7.jpeg975FA0FC-CDB0-43BF-9D2D-E3D3779F9FF4.jpeg

5D08AC1C-41EA-46D2-8150-AC7AA4AED784.jpeg

My take on the graphs:
The bare 'buds of course lays the foundation here. The fuzzy foam boosted the 50-80Hz range by 3-4dB and reduced the peak at 2.2kHz by 3dB. Treble extension remains unchanged.
The full foam provides a noticeably 'flatter' graph. Bass and mid are boosted by a large margin, and while the character of the mid-high and treble is similar to the bare 'buds, it's down by 3-8dB. High treble is cut by a lot, I think this kills down a lot of 'airy' and 'sparkle' in the sound.
The donut foam is interesting. I actually redone the measurements from the beginning since the donut foam gives such a high SPL. The mic position and signal level is unchanged. Could it be the better 'seal' that caused the boost in SPL? Mid-high and treble mimics the bare and fuzzy foam graphs, with some cut around 2kHz and 5.5kHz.
I am curious how the fuzzy foam with a donut around it will sound. I like the seal that this configuration gives, and it saves me the itch caused by the fuzzy foam.

Questions for the pros here:
1. Should I change the mic position and/or 'normalize' the signal level to make sure a balanced reading across? I think the bare 'buds was around -33dB reading on my REW with my setup.

Some notes and disclaimers:
1. This is my first attempt and this is purely for my personal research.
2. All foam; fuzzy, full, and donut are purchased from TrigRain shop, I think many here are familiar with their products, hopefully that is useful to you guys who want to replicate the tuning of different foams.
3. I am not affiliated with Elibuds, Dayton Audio, or TrigRain. I just use their products and I like them, but this is also not a promotion and I do not get a kickback for doing this LOL.
4. I did not change the volume or position/placement of the mic between measurements.

Any comments or input on my methodology, conclusion, or anything else please feel free to share. Thank you!
 
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Apr 29, 2020 at 7:51 AM Post #1,733 of 4,707
I got around to learning how to measure earbuds. I use an adaptor that placed the tip of the mic in the center, that also has some damping foam around to absorb the resonances, and allow ‘mating’ with the earbud face.

4C9379E4-794B-4090-A726-6508847D9DBC.jpeg
E7D68650-5112-474A-95D8-6434103D0CA7.jpeg975FA0FC-CDB0-43BF-9D2D-E3D3779F9FF4.jpeg

5D08AC1C-41EA-46D2-8150-AC7AA4AED784.jpeg

My take on the graphs:
The bare 'buds of course lays the foundation here. The fuzzy foam boosted the 50-80Hz range by 3-4dB and reduced the peak at 2.2kHz by 3dB. Treble extension remains unchanged.
The full foam provides a noticeably 'flatter' graph. Bass and mid are boosted by a large margin, and while the character of the mid-high and treble is similar to the bare 'buds, it's down by 3-8dB. High treble is cut by a lot, I think this kills down a lot of 'airy' and 'sparkle' in the sound.
The donut foam is interesting. I actually redone the measurements from the beginning since the donut foam gives such a high SPL. The mic position and signal level is unchanged. Could it be the better 'seal' that caused the boost in SPL? Mid-high and treble mimics the bare and fuzzy foam graphs, with some cut around 2kHz and 5.5kHz.
I am curious how the fuzzy foam with a donut around it will sound. I like the seal that this configuration gives, and it saves me the itch caused by the fuzzy foam.

Questions for the pros here:
1. Should I change the mic position and/or 'normalize' the signal level to make sure a balanced reading across? I think the bare 'buds was around -33dB reading on my REW with my setup.

Some notes and disclaimers:
1. This is my first attempt and this is purely for my personal research.
2. All foam; fuzzy, full, and donut are purchased from TrigRain shop, I think many here are familiar with their products, hopefully that is useful to you guys who want to replicate the tuning of different foams.
3. I am not affiliated with Elibuds, Dayton Audio, or TrigRain. I just use their products and I like them, but this is also not a promotion and I do not get a kickback for doing this LOL.
4. I did not change the volume or position/placement of the mic between measurements.

Any comments or input on my methodology, conclusion, or anything else please feel free to share. Thank you!
I would use a slightly larger and more conical-shaped adaptor to get a slightly tighter fit.
Basically something that allows the bud to sit in place without the user holding it there by hand, and that at the same time gives a better seal.
Looking at those graphs, I'm almost certain you're losing sub-bass volume/response due to a poor fit, rather than that being the actual measurement of the bud.

Also the excessive bump around 2K seems to be an artefact of the measuring tool.
It's never that pronounced on my miniDSP EARS measurements (which is obviously not a perfect tool either, but it looks excessive to me).
But I don't know if there's a good way of safely reducing that. Maybe change the adapter materials to different types of foam/felt etc and see if something emulates human skin or an ear canal a bit better.
If there's no logical/sane method of reducing that bump, I would just leave in a disclaimer with every graph mentioning that it's likely an artefact of the tools, like how almost all closed-back-headphone miniDSP EARS graphs have a dip around 4Khz.

However, overall I would say you've got the tools and methodology pretty much down already.
Just a few minor tweaks left to get truly consistent results - especially a hands-free mounting system would be ideal.
 
Apr 29, 2020 at 8:40 AM Post #1,734 of 4,707
I got around to learning how to measure earbuds. I use an adaptor that placed the tip of the mic in the center, that also has some damping foam around to absorb the resonances, and allow ‘mating’ with the earbud face.






My take on the graphs:
The bare 'buds of course lays the foundation here. The fuzzy foam boosted the 50-80Hz range by 3-4dB and reduced the peak at 2.2kHz by 3dB. Treble extension remains unchanged.
The full foam provides a noticeably 'flatter' graph. Bass and mid are boosted by a large margin, and while the character of the mid-high and treble is similar to the bare 'buds, it's down by 3-8dB. High treble is cut by a lot, I think this kills down a lot of 'airy' and 'sparkle' in the sound.
The donut foam is interesting. I actually redone the measurements from the beginning since the donut foam gives such a high SPL. The mic position and signal level is unchanged. Could it be the better 'seal' that caused the boost in SPL? Mid-high and treble mimics the bare and fuzzy foam graphs, with some cut around 2kHz and 5.5kHz.
I am curious how the fuzzy foam with a donut around it will sound. I like the seal that this configuration gives, and it saves me the itch caused by the fuzzy foam.

Questions for the pros here:
1. Should I change the mic position and/or 'normalize' the signal level to make sure a balanced reading across? I think the bare 'buds was around -33dB reading on my REW with my setup.

Some notes and disclaimers:
1. This is my first attempt and this is purely for my personal research.
2. All foam; fuzzy, full, and donut are purchased from TrigRain shop, I think many here are familiar with their products, hopefully that is useful to you guys who want to replicate the tuning of different foams.
3. I am not affiliated with Elibuds, Dayton Audio, or TrigRain. I just use their products and I like them, but this is also not a promotion and I do not get a kickback for doing this LOL.
4. I did not change the volume or position/placement of the mic between measurements.

Any comments or input on my methodology, conclusion, or anything else please feel free to share. Thank you!
Really nice measurements, well done! From these variations, the donut foam graph looks the most useful for me, maybe you could also try regular full foam. I use trig rain donuts as well but their full foam is almost unusable for me, ruins the treble and the details in my experience. I would certainly choose one of the more balanced kind of foam and stick to it for measurements, these differences above are specific to the measurement device anyway.

Your graphs look quite similar to mine, except for the valley in the upper mids (between 2-5khz) where mine produces a smooth upper arch, but I know it's over-represented compared to my subjective listening (the qian25 below sounds close to flat) so I compensate in my head. I guess yours is more realistic, but that sudden bump can be misleading a bit. Reminds me of csglinux's measurements, he is in the earbuds-roundup topic, maybe you could contact him for more advice, he probably uses something similar. Do you have other cheap earbuds, like vido, qian series, ry4s ue etc? I know that direct comparison will never be realistic, but I would be very interested in how your rig would measure them. :)

For tuning purposes, I wouldn't alter the levels if the graphs are from the same earbud with the same input volume. I find it much more useful to see exactly how the response changes relatively. If I compare two different earbuds, I usually align them at 1Khz for comparison. (via controls button on top right corner) I usually do several measurements with 1 sweep (256k) and average them (I delete failed/misaligned measurements before) I set the limits of the chart for a nice balanced graph that is easier to read.

I don't really post my measurements because the 2-5khz bump can confuse people and they try to read it at face value (and there are two small peaks from my rig at 250hz and 1250hz that I'm lazy to learn how to compensate out) I'm not bothered by them but I have to point those out every time if I share a graph somewhere. If I do share a graph I usually apply a really small smoothing, something like 1/48 or 1/24, just to make the lines cleaner.

Here's an example, one of my favorite builds with the Titanium 64 speaker, compared to my baseline Qian25 blue which is a neutral, tight, slightly bright earbud. As you can see the T64 has vastly superior bass extension (which is even slightly reduced in this tuning), with well controlled bass and lower mids.The bass only starts to grow below 200hz, peaking below 100hz, just as I like. The slightly emphasized upper mids around 2khz balance out the heavy hitting bass and somewhat soft treble quite nicely. The low treble around 6-7khz is at a natural level, not artificially brightened like with most cheap earbuds. Overall this is my current favorite in terms of tuning, I have some work to do with my 19-21 builds.
T64-vs-qian25.jpg

For another interesting comparison, here's the Faaeal Rosemary, which is also a darkish and bassy earbud, but this has the typical sloppy, warm, boomy lower half and dark upper mids. (but among the better controlled ones) Even with the extra boost, the extension is far away from the Titanium.
T64-vs-Rosemary.jpg

Here's another interesting one: Titanium vs white vido. Vido is a typical v-shaped bud with sucked out low-mids which crate an over-represented upper half thus making the sound grainy. The darkness of the vido comes from the low quality speaker it has, with the same graph an emx500 sounds really sharp and bright. This is a kind of comparison where I wouldn't necessarily align at 1khz for presentation, because the difference is so big that it can be misleading. Aligning at 2khz would make a more realistic impression in this case, but that is not perfect either. For tuning I always align at 1khz because I check everything relative to it anyway. Maybe normalizing would be the best way in this case for display purposes, but I don't know how to do that in REW. So this is certainly up for personal preference.
Here's aligned at 1khz
t64-vs-whitevido.jpg
Here's the same thing but aligned at 2khz
t64-vs-whitevido-2khz.jpg
 
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Apr 29, 2020 at 11:44 PM Post #1,735 of 4,707
I would use a slightly larger and more conical-shaped adaptor to get a slightly tighter fit.
Basically something that allows the bud to sit in place without the user holding it there by hand, and that at the same time gives a better seal.
Looking at those graphs, I'm almost certain you're losing sub-bass volume/response due to a poor fit, rather than that being the actual measurement of the bud.

Also the excessive bump around 2K seems to be an artefact of the measuring tool.
It's never that pronounced on my miniDSP EARS measurements (which is obviously not a perfect tool either, but it looks excessive to me).
But I don't know if there's a good way of safely reducing that. Maybe change the adapter materials to different types of foam/felt etc and see if something emulates human skin or an ear canal a bit better.
If there's no logical/sane method of reducing that bump, I would just leave in a disclaimer with every graph mentioning that it's likely an artefact of the tools, like how almost all closed-back-headphone miniDSP EARS graphs have a dip around 4Khz.

However, overall I would say you've got the tools and methodology pretty much down already.
Just a few minor tweaks left to get truly consistent results - especially a hands-free mounting system would be ideal.
Hi GREQ, thank you for your input. I immediately applied your suggestion and managed to flare the lip a little bit to allow better seal.
I agree that the bump at 2kHz is too much, maybe it's the plastic face of the bud reflecting sound waves. Do we want the tip of the mic to touch the face of the bud, or how many mm is ideal between them?
Thanks so much.

CA77B8EE-56D1-424D-B041-F04D2346C813.jpeg
 
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Apr 29, 2020 at 11:49 PM Post #1,736 of 4,707
Really nice measurements, well done! From these variations, the donut foam graph looks the most useful for me, maybe you could also try regular full foam. I use trig rain donuts as well but their full foam is almost unusable for me, ruins the treble and the details in my experience. I would certainly choose one of the more balanced kind of foam and stick to it for measurements, these differences above are specific to the measurement device anyway.

Your graphs look quite similar to mine, except for the valley in the upper mids (between 2-5khz) where mine produces a smooth upper arch, but I know it's over-represented compared to my subjective listening (the qian25 below sounds close to flat) so I compensate in my head. I guess yours is more realistic, but that sudden bump can be misleading a bit. Reminds me of csglinux's measurements, he is in the earbuds-roundup topic, maybe you could contact him for more advice, he probably uses something similar. Do you have other cheap earbuds, like vido, qian series, ry4s ue etc? I know that direct comparison will never be realistic, but I would be very interested in how your rig would measure them. :)

For tuning purposes, I wouldn't alter the levels if the graphs are from the same earbud with the same input volume. I find it much more useful to see exactly how the response changes relatively. If I compare two different earbuds, I usually align them at 1Khz for comparison. (via controls button on top right corner) I usually do several measurements with 1 sweep (256k) and average them (I delete failed/misaligned measurements before) I set the limits of the chart for a nice balanced graph that is easier to read.

I don't really post my measurements because the 2-5khz bump can confuse people and they try to read it at face value (and there are two small peaks from my rig at 250hz and 1250hz that I'm lazy to learn how to compensate out) I'm not bothered by them but I have to point those out every time if I share a graph somewhere. If I do share a graph I usually apply a really small smoothing, something like 1/48 or 1/24, just to make the lines cleaner.

Here's an example, one of my favorite builds with the Titanium 64 speaker, compared to my baseline Qian25 blue which is a neutral, tight, slightly bright earbud. As you can see the T64 has vastly superior bass extension (which is even slightly reduced in this tuning), with well controlled bass and lower mids.The bass only starts to grow below 200hz, peaking below 100hz, just as I like. The slightly emphasized upper mids around 2khz balance out the heavy hitting bass and somewhat soft treble quite nicely. The low treble around 6-7khz is at a natural level, not artificially brightened like with most cheap earbuds. Overall this is my current favorite in terms of tuning, I have some work to do with my 19-21 builds.


For another interesting comparison, here's the Faaeal Rosemary, which is also a darkish and bassy earbud, but this has the typical sloppy, warm, boomy lower half and dark upper mids. (but among the better controlled ones) Even with the extra boost, the extension is far away from the Titanium.


Here's another interesting one: Titanium vs white vido. Vido is a typical v-shaped bud with sucked out low-mids which crate an over-represented upper half thus making the sound grainy. The darkness of the vido comes from the low quality speaker it has, with the same graph an emx500 sounds really sharp and bright. This is a kind of comparison where I wouldn't necessarily align at 1khz for presentation, because the difference is so big that it can be misleading. Aligning at 2khz would make a more realistic impression in this case, but that is not perfect either. For tuning I always align at 1khz because I check everything relative to it anyway. Maybe normalizing would be the best way in this case for display purposes, but I don't know how to do that in REW. So this is certainly up for personal preference.
Here's aligned at 1khz

Here's the same thing but aligned at 2khz
Hi robar, thanks very much for your inspiration as well. You brought a fine point of 'aligning' the levels at 1kHz. It does make them easier to compare. Sorry I mistype it 'normalizing' on the first graph, this is the same one from the previous post, just aligned at 1kHz. I modified the mounting a little bit to allow hands-free measurement, and came with the the second graph. In real life, subjectively, the full foam does not sound as dark as the graph would suggest. I'm trying to standardize my method now: (1) have a SPL 50dB scale, (2) align 1kHz at 50dB, I think they make it much nicer to see and easier to interpret.52244614-C262-4BE6-A371-BE8F973328D7.jpeg3A412143-F753-4F3F-BFEB-A3BEE5D3A696.jpeg
 
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Apr 30, 2020 at 2:41 AM Post #1,737 of 4,707
Hi robar, thanks very much for your inspiration as well. You brought a fine point of 'aligning' the levels at 1kHz. It does make them easier to compare. Sorry I mistype it 'normalizing' on the first graph, this is the same one from the previous post, just aligned at 1kHz. I modified the mounting a little bit to allow hands-free measurement, and came with the the second graph. In real life, subjectively, the full foam does not sound as dark as the graph would suggest. I'm trying to standardize my method now: (1) have a SPL 50dB scale, (2) align 1kHz at 50dB, I think they make it much nicer to see and easier to interpret.52244614-C262-4BE6-A371-BE8F973328D7.jpeg3A412143-F753-4F3F-BFEB-A3BEE5D3A696.jpeg
It's actually more common to align the graphs at 300hz for some reason.
You might notice that's been the common practice in other places.
 
Apr 30, 2020 at 4:21 AM Post #1,739 of 4,707
How can I check, with 100% certainty, that I soldered the wires to a driver correctly, i.e. in phase, without reversing polarity? I followed the colour coding on wires and the driver, tried all the popular test tracks and websites, but I'm still not sure I got it right. I know I can use a multimeter, but how exactly would I go about that?
Will appreciate any kind of help, as it drives me crazy.
 
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Apr 30, 2020 at 4:45 AM Post #1,740 of 4,707
One more question. There's a definite humming/buzzing sound coming from one of the earbuds in a pair I just put together. It gets louder when I turn the volume up. Kind of like driver flex in an IEM, just more buzzy than crinkly, if it makes any sense.
What could be the reason? Is it something I did during soldering/assembly, or could it be a faulty driver?
 

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