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Divine Moments in Music
Aug 8, 2014 at 6:07 PM Post #91 of 193
Quite the All-Star line-up here.  The Herbie Hancock solo is particularly awesome...everybody laughs at his mind-numbing prowess when he's done.  Recording quality ain't bad either....
 

 
Aug 8, 2014 at 6:38 PM Post #92 of 193
Talk about classics.  Check out the reaction of the two musicians standing next to Miles when Coltrane goes where only Coltrane could go at the 5:05 minute mark. 
 

 
Aug 9, 2014 at 3:08 PM Post #94 of 193
musikaladin said:
  ...you might ask, what does this ordinary pop song […] do here...?
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Despite listening to nearly every type of music I'm familiar with, somewhat ironically pop of all things is something I've always had a tough time digesting. Therefore I welcome any truly notable and timeless tunes with open arms.
 
To contribute:
 
 
 
 
Yes, there's a bit of Madonna in there. I actually like some of her albums quite a bit and think Ray of Light is sublime. One of my all-time favorite albums. I think many music lovers overlook her music for no valid reason. Then again some of her albums do nothing for me.
 
musikaladin said:
  ... you already had enough of Tchaikovsky's violin concerto?... Then you better watch this one with Shoji Sakaya...
 
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I've always preferred Janine Jansen myself. Based on the videos I've tried to watch I've never managed to enjoy Shōji Sayaka's playing, and I kind of want to simply due to the fact that she's Japanese and female.
 

 
 
For anyone who wants to experience something truly exquisite, BT's album If the Stars Are Eternal So Are You and I comes highly recommended. Here's the official music video for the opening track 13 Angels on my Broken Windowsill, but since album is one continuous uninterrupted and very varied yet coherent and organic experience, it is best experienced as a whole. Also if one ever happens to be looking for music to test out their system's dynamics, bass extension and wide-frequency impulse response, this track will deliver.
 
CAUTION!
As I said the album features quite a bit of dynamics, so DON'T turn your volume way up in the beginning simply because the song starts off really calm and quiet. Let the quiet parts be quiet, as intended.
 

 
(Spoiler: The very same album actually has calm acoustic guitars and soothing vocals later on.)
 
Aug 10, 2014 at 7:19 AM Post #95 of 193
tj elite said:
 
musikaladin said:
  ... you already had enough of Tchaikovsky's violin concerto?... Then you better watch this one with Shoji Sakaya...
 
 
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Based on the videos I've tried to watch I've never managed to enjoy Shōji Sayaka's playing, and I kind of want to simply due to the fact that she's Japanese and female.
 
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...to me it is actually the other way round, I really enjoy watching her on video with all her intense facial expression.
But that is not the main reason why I like to listen to her. Let me try to explain why: There is this old dispute whether (classical) music shall be played as the composer intended it to sound... and based thereon is another dispute about how the composer actually might have wanted it to sound... In my eyes a quite hopeless quest for truth if the composer lived before the invention of sound recording. Surely one can say that the music has to be played as close to the notes as possible. On the other hand, why should the interpreter always stick to the "original", why shouldn't he develop the original to something different (whether better or worse is another question then and might only be individually answered)...  In this context Shoji Sayaka brings some fresh wind into the scene with some of her rather free interpretations of classics...
 
Aug 10, 2014 at 9:20 AM Post #96 of 193
tj elite said:
 
CAUTION!
As I said the album features quite a bit of dynamics, so DON'T turn your volume way up in the beginning simply because the song starts off really calm and quiet. Let the quiet parts be quiet, as intended.
 

 
(Spoiler: The very same album actually has calm acoustic guitars and soothing vocals later on.)
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Thanks therefore!
 
Aug 10, 2014 at 2:09 PM Post #101 of 193
musikaladin said:
 
...to me it is actually the other way round, I really enjoy watching her on video with all her intense facial expression.
But that is not the main reason why I like to listen to her. Let me try to explain why: There is this old dispute whether (classical) music shall be played as the composer intended it to sound... and based thereon is another dispute about how the composer actually might have wanted it to sound... In my eyes a quite hopeless quest for truth if the composer lived before the invention of sound recording. Surely one can say that the music has to be played as close to the notes as possible. On the other hand, why should the interpreter always stick to the "original", why shouldn't he develop the original to something different (whether better or worse is another question then and might only be individually answered)...  In this context Shoji Sayaka brings some fresh wind into the scene with some of her rather free interpretations of classics...
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I dislike watching classical music. On the rare occasion that I do go to hear classical music live, I close my eyes because it literally makes the music sound a hundred times better. It does feel somewhat conflicting, however, for having paid for a chance to see a performance that can never be seen or heard again, you do feel that part of the fee you paid went toward being able to see the performers and therefore you do feel that you should watch because otherwise you aren't getting your full money's worth.
 
Funny, the main reason why I like Jansen's playing so much is because I feel she adds a ton of personality to her performance, which I feel most classical violinists lack to a large degree. I don't feel qualified to judge a violinist's abilities, but if I'd have to give an evaluation, I'd perhaps say that despite her obvious talent, Jansen perhaps isn't quite up there with the top-tier violinist in the world in pure technical prowess. I do feel she comes close, though, and on her level and beyond I don't feel any additional proficiency makes a notable difference; taste and personal insight become significantly more important.
 
What you talked about the old debate over how classical music from centuries ago should be performed is something I've always found funny. I think both approaches are equally valid. If you want to make an attempt to perform the piece as close to as you think the composer intended for it to be performed, then go for it. If one wants to present their own interpretation of a piece, I think that also has great potential for greatness if you're really inspired and feel a connection to the music. I actually feel composers should leave room for artistic freedom and exploration in most compositions for the performers. Pieces that absolutely require a strict set of guidelines to be followed in order to work make an exception to this. I do feel, however, that in your interpretation of someone else's work, you should always stay true to the spirit of the music. If you aren't going to do that, I think you should just go ahead and fully reimagine the piece
– otherwise you lack respect in my opinion, not for the composer but the music. Not sure how many people share my view, but I feel the music itself is more important than how we perceive it or how much enjoyment we get out of it. Perhaps pure entertainment could be considered and exception to this but anyway.
 
A good example of another young contemporary female violinist would be Julia Fischer. Critics seem to love her. I own a significant portion of her discography but can with full honesty say that I enjoy maybe one of her albums. There isn't really anything wrong with her playing, apart from the fact that it sounds as dry as dry can be. Her performances of Bach's partitas and sonatas have for example been heralded as some of the best recorded performances of those pieces. I do sometimes manage to get some enjoyment out of those discs, but it takes a lot of effort and even then there are numerous other disc I'd rather listen to instead. On most discs her playing feels just so cold it is really demanding to not let it distract you.
 
For the record, the only disc of hers I kind of like – of the ones I've heard
– is her rendition of Bach's concertos for Decca. Perhaps somewhat ironically, because I'm at least under the impression that disc might've been somewhat less enthusiastically received as many of there other records. I find it… enjoyable. On the whole, I prefer it to for example Hilary Hahn's acclaimed recording of the same pieces, even though I would choose certain movements from Hahn's disc over Fischer's. Then again I've never been the biggest fan of Hahn despite thinking her "Silfra" disc with Hauschka is exquisite. Her performance of the Higdon violin concerto I also like, but then again it was composed specifically for her so it's no great wonder it is a good fit.
 
I own none of Shōji Sayaka's records, so all my impression are based on YouTube videos I've seen here and there. Sadly I've never managed to enjoy any of her music. In that Tchaikovsky performance for example 
– a piece that I would describe as very melodic, hence why I don't listen to it that often – I'm not sure if it's just the recording, but I completely fail at following her playing despite trying, to the extent that I can't even recognise the piece from just her playing. If it is part of her approach to be intentionally inarticulate, then I guess she's succeeded, but otherwise I'm left scratching my head. It is impossible for this to not sound disrespectful even though I don't mean for it to be, for she is a million times better violin player than I am, but if I heard this performance without knowing who it was, I'd guess it was someone who was still learning to fully play the piece. Her playing if full of these brief quirky pauses that break any kind of attempt at establishing a flow for me.
 
The only other video of hers that I can sort of remember was her Sibelius. I was grimacing all throughout that and had to stop it once I could take no more. It wasn't very long after seeing Pekka Kuusisto perform the very same piece live in my town. He was barefoot on stage, dressed in very plain clothes like a child of nature. I'm sure it wasn't the best rendition of that piece that has ever been given, but his tone when the violin first is introduced was exquisite and his performance was so down to earth and just so "real". It felt so Finnish in every way and it gave me a totally new insight into Sibelius's work. It made me see him not as this extraordinary guy who lived before my time whom we should hold on some pedestal, but as just a regular man who just happened to write music for a living and lived life similar to countless others before and after him.
 
Watching Shōji's performance was the polar opposite. She was adding so much additional drama it was unreal. She really highlighted even the smallest of peaks and overemphasized every gentle moment. I personally found it unbearable to watch. I can't claim to know what Sibelius's intentions were regarding how the concerto should be performed, but I feel Shōji was really far off in her approach. If we assume that it wasn't even her intention to stay true to what the composer had had in mind, I still think this kind of approach of emphasizing the stark and soft points is such a linear way of thinking I simply find it impossible to appreciate even purely on an idea level. Those who have heard the Glenn Gould interview regarding his 1981 recording of Bach's Goldberg Variations know that he had a quite fascinating philosophy behind his interpretation. I have no idea if his approach was at all what Bach had had in mind, but I can respect his very interesting and insightful take on the music.
 
Another method of approach that came to mind from outside classical music are the so-called Coltrane changes, the chord substitution method John Coltrane developed for the typical ii–V–I progression. It offers a relatively simple method of modifying existing tunes to give an impression of it being an entirely new one with much more complexity. Perhaps not that related to the world of classical, but from time to time you do see people who are really using their imagination to offer a breath of fresh air to works that have already been played to death.
 
​None of this was intended to sound as me intentionally badmouthing Shōji. It is quite possible I'm simply ignorant and blind to her talent. But wouldn't the world be boring anyway if we just all agreed on everything? I for one would probably just shoot myself, for what's the point for my existence if everyone else is already in effect me?
 
 
For today's contribution… I already mentioned this earlier on in the thread, but here's a video for what is certainly one of my favorite choral pieces by Arvo Pärt. The playlist contains the entire 2-disc album because picking a single section from this work would seem pointless. The music is very minimal as one might expect if you have any familiarity with Arvo Pärt; I would not call it repetitive however, despite how it might seem at first on the surface. There is actually an incredible amount of subtle variety throughout and the music is far less monotonous than might seem at first. I in fact find it far more rich in content than a vast majority of music out there, one simply needs to listen and listen with care. Every note has a purpose and place.
 
I might be imagining it, but I swear that I think that on my current speakers I can tell the position of adjacent choir members within the soundstage. The ambience in general on this disc is phenomenal. Even if I didn't care for the music, this album would be worth it for admiring the spatial details alone. The church they used has truly spectacular acoustics. Certainly one of the most spiritual experiences a non-religiuous person like me can have.
 
 
 
Aug 11, 2014 at 8:01 AM Post #103 of 193
tj elite said:
 
I own none of Shōji Sayaka's records, so all my impression are based on YouTube videos I've seen here and there. Sadly I've never managed to enjoy any of her music. In that Tchaikovsky performance for example 
– a piece that I would describe as very melodic, hence why I don't listen to it that often – I'm not sure if it's just the recording, but I completely fail at following her playing despite trying, to the extent that I can't even recognise the piece from just her playing. If it is part of her approach to be intentionally inarticulate, then I guess she's succeeded, but otherwise I'm left scratching my head. It is impossible for this to not sound disrespectful even though I don't mean for it to be, for she is a million times better violin player than I am, but if I heard this performance without knowing who it was, I'd guess it was someone who was still learning to fully play the piece. Her playing if full of these brief quirky pauses that break any kind of attempt at establishing a flow for me.
 
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... kind of funny that of all members here you, who carefully expressed does not exactly fall for here style, are somehow repeatedly recommended Sayaka...
smily_headphones1.gif
... still, interesting how people react totally different on one and the same artist... I will never forget a dispute between my uncle and me about Lang Lang's style which I never was able to appreciate... anyway, would be horrible if all of us had the same preferences, right?
 
Aug 11, 2014 at 9:34 AM Post #104 of 193
tj elite said:
 
I might be imagining it, but I swear that I think that on my current speakers I can tell the position of adjacent choir members within the soundstage. The ambience in general on this disc is phenomenal. Even if I didn't care for the music, this album would be worth it for admiring the spatial details alone. The church they used has truly spectacular acoustics. Certainly one of the most spiritual experiences a non-religiuous person like me can have.


 
...I listened to it partially via my studio speakers which have amazing resolution abilities (beryllium tweeter) . Of course the YouTube file is just augural concerning the quality you describe. Still it was good enough to make me curious to search for a high-res download (didn't find one yet) or get the CD instead... the music itself somehow is not of this world.
 
Aug 11, 2014 at 1:07 PM Post #105 of 193
musikaladin said:
 
... kind of funny that of all members here you, who carefully expressed does not exactly fall for here style, are somehow repeatedly recommended Sayaka...
smily_headphones1.gif
... still, interesting how people react totally different on one and the same artist... I will never forget a dispute between my uncle and me about Lang Lang's style which I never was able to appreciate... anyway, would be horrible if all of us had the same preferences, right?
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I didn't even remember that Prokofiev one until you mentioned it. I never actually watched that video because I've never heard his first violin concerto, only the second one, and like I said I prefer listening to classical rather than watching it so I just skipped it because I wouldn't have had a point of reference for it anyway. My local stores carry very little classical and even less Prokofiev so I'm not very well versed in his output.
 
To try to sum up what I said about Sayaka, I think I feel she seems to lack subtlety, which for me is one of the things I value most in an artist. Also to add to what I said about technical and interpretive performers, even though I find for example many of Heifetz's renditions difficult to appreciate, I found his performance of Beethoven's violin concerto for example most informative and it really gave me new insight into the piece, so I'm not at all opposed to purely technical performers. For those people who refuse to adapt their style to the music, you just need to find the right pairing for them. I think music from the romantic period is for example a good match for Heifetz because most of the music is already so overly sweet and even cheesy his approach of not adding anything extra works really well.
 
I don't really hang out in the classical circles, but I'm well aware of the strong debate over Lang Lang. I'm under the impression that similar debates are sometimes had over Karajan. I haven't heard very much of Lang Lang's music so I don't really have a strong opinion of him one way or another, but I actually like the CD of him performing Chopin's piano concertos 1 and 2 a great deal. I'm not sure if I own any other performances of those concertos, though, so I can't say how much of me liking those performance is simply due to the music and how much due to the performances themselves. Years ago when I was only getting acquainted with YouTube for the first time, I saw a couple of videos of Lang Lang performing and the comments seemed to be all about a big debate over how some think he is being overdramatic with his facial expressions and flat out faking emotion. I heard nothing to complain in his playing so I thought the issue was beside the point. If he is "acting", then that is slightly sad, but I myself didn't really get the feeling he was being dishonest to his audience; I thought that was just the way he was. We're all different.
 
I think all of us know how great it can feel to find someone who shares our appreciation for something, but I think it can be even more fun to disagree on something and hear why the other feels how they feel. I think listening to other people's point of views can be most fascinating and enlightening. On a somewhat unrelated note, I've always thought it funny how you tend to see people on forums asking "I just heard this great piece of music. Could someone recommend me something else like it?" I know I fall outside the norm in this regard, but whenever I hear something truly remarkable, my reaction is "That was amazing. Now, what might there be that is equally as good, but nothing like what I listened to." I've always found little interest in listening to something that sounds exactly like something I've already heard. Whenever an artist I like releases something that sounds just like their previous output, I can't help but be somewhat disappointed even if it's an otherwise solid effort. I'm not saying artists should totally reinvent their style every two years, but I would like to see a natural evolution rather than a mere repetition of the old formula. Of course if a new direction in style seems forced, then that is not a positive thing either.
 
musikaladin said:
 
...I listened to it partially via my studio speakers which have amazing resolution abilities (beryllium tweeter) . Of course the YouTube file is just augural concerning the quality you describe. Still it was good enough to make me curious to search for a high-res download (didn't find one yet) or get the CD instead... the music itself somehow is not of this world.
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Yes the music feels somehow beyond ethereal, like it stands outside of time.
 
 
Michael Wollny's Wunderkammer has held a special place for me ever since I heard it for the first time. On the album the jazz pianist performs together with harpsichordist Tamar Halperin and they create an at times very minimal yet haunting chamber music experience which combines elements from electronic music and modal jazz into it. In 2012 at the German jazz festival in Frankfurt, Wunderkammer was performed live in its expanded "XXL" form together with the hr-Bigband under the baton of Jim McNeely. The arrangements made for big band ensemble are truly incredible and the performance was a tremendous success, earning a thundering 20-minute standing ovation from the audience, something which is unprecedented in the event's 60-year history.
 
Both Wunderkammer and Wunderkammer XXL can be found on Spotify, but below are also two videos from the aforementioned jazz festival with the hr-Bigband. I feel these two cuts complement one another very nicely.
 
  
 
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