Digital out comparison. E-MU 1212m vs ESI Juli@
Sep 22, 2005 at 10:50 AM Post #16 of 42

nuhi

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Glassman, thanks for notifying them, now we can just hope they will come down and admit that there is a problem, at least silently in one of the next drivers.
But I think they knew all along that it's doing too much processing or there wouldn't be an option to SEND data directly while it is already playing...if you know what I mean...why an option to SEND to S/PDIF while it's already there...but there is a difference.

Can't they just do simple RMAA digital loop test...you can try it and link it to them, compare with SEND in strip, in main and without it...I don't want to register there just for that and they would probably "eliminate" me in a minute.
 
Sep 22, 2005 at 11:08 AM Post #17 of 42

Glassman

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you wouldn't see almost anything in RMAA, it's most likely something in the least significant bit in 24bit data.. the SENDs are perfectly valid, PatchMix is build around them, there's nothing wrong with this approach, you can control exactly what and where is going.. SEND to S/PDIF is needed if you want to output data from just one strip, while monitoring lets you hear the mix on the main bus.. nevertheless, this guy Bruce seems to have serious lack of even common sense and if it's true that their 'engineers' looked into it and found nothing wrong then.. well.. god save us! no way they're gonna fix something they don't even believe in happen, they're not up to fixing things they admit being wrong.. let alone some missing basic features.. 1212m is my first 'Creative' and I swear the last one..
 
Sep 23, 2005 at 8:18 AM Post #19 of 42

johto

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Bruce:
"If you really feel or believe that the main inserts are a problem, then we would suggest that you don't use them."

rolleyes.gif
 
Sep 23, 2005 at 2:23 PM Post #21 of 42

viper_45

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Please pardon my ignorance, but does this mean my emu0404 cannot deliver bit-perfect digital output via any means? Would I be better off with an AV710/flashed for getting bit-perfect digital output?

I read quite a few times on these boards that a flac encoded files from the HDD->soundcard->external DAC provides one of the best transports, i.e. low jitter. Now I'm hearing that the emu0404 actually has to resample, and that the stream is not bit-perfect at all.
confused.gif
 
Oct 15, 2005 at 3:07 PM Post #23 of 42

NightWoundsTime

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I think the problem is that EMU regards their cards as only for home recording use. And let's face it, most hobbyists understand recording practices more than high sound quality. The forum shows their blank stares when you start talking about filled in bits and non bit perfect out. They may not even be using the digital outs as a vital part of the signal chain, I can't think of too many reasons why they would.

Overall EMU has never wanted to support their cards as audiophile sources, they think all of us who have Audigys are crazy for wanting to use both.
 
Oct 16, 2005 at 9:57 AM Post #24 of 42

maarek99

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What are you guys mumbling? That is not resampling. And there is no difference in sound quality anywhere if patchmix adds bits in. Audio voodoo.

Granted the answers from Bruce were pretty lame.
 
Oct 16, 2005 at 7:02 PM Post #25 of 42

thomaspf

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I am left a little puzzled a this point.

I took away that the emu cards can't do bit perfect playback.

If that is the case how can the audio quality not be impacted?

Cheers

Thomas
 
Oct 17, 2005 at 12:09 AM Post #28 of 42

chris719

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Glassman, your findings are very interesting...

I think this behavior is intended actually, when using the main insert SEND you can still control the relative volumes of each of the strips. When using the SEND on the strips themselves you cannot.


The emu cards are capable of bit perfect output easily.. just insert the SEND in the strips individually, not the main and it works fine.

No this is not resampling, it is simply the patchmix volume control DSP, and it would be nice if they told you that it was not defeatable when using main insert sends.
 
Oct 18, 2005 at 9:57 PM Post #30 of 42

Glassman

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I would understand if the output from main bus was dithered to 24bit, that would actually be correct thing to do.. but if there's no dithering and no attenuation selected, the signal should of course pass bit perfect, which is not the case as we've proved.. I just wanted to hear from them something like 'yes, we are dithering' or 'no, we are not - there is some bug then, we'll look into it', but what I got was total lack of understanding on their part
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