Diaphragm VS Armature

[Jasper994]

Quote:

Originally Posted by tucker71 What I heard (from my audiologist) was... employees of Westone basically "defected" and started Ultimate Ears. Regardless, I wouldn't be shocked to find out that all the IEM companies use the same drivers. Especially when you consider how similar in price they all are. Can't really be all THAT much difference.

I own various products from Shure and Ultimate Ears, and have spent some time with both Westone and Etymotic products. I can assure you, the differences in sound are most certainly there. Each company has it's own idea of how things should sound and tune their earpieces accordingly.

BTW, try sticking some Shure E2 soft tips (the grey ones) on your EBs, it'll tame the highs a bit and give you better isolation.

 

[blue4n3]

Aside from the IEM, what associated equiptment are you using? I find that when i use my e4c out of my laptop I get that hurtful highs. However, out of the MicroStack the highs are still sharp, but they sparkle instead of sizzle and the bass works well with it. If the sharpness is still a major problem, it may be a good idea to check out the ES2. I have the UM2 and find the highs rolled off and not painful at all. The ES2 should be better and custom comfort. But remember: the other equiptment you use will definately change the signature of your IEM for better or worse.

 

[setmenu]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dr.Sade I still don't know what an armature driver is. I have an intuitive feel for what a dynamic driver is based upon common experience with full size headphones, but haven't got a clue to what what an armature driver is or what it looks like. So somebody please post some pictures and an explanation of how an armature driver works and what it looks like. How is an armature driver's technology different from the dynamic driver?

Here is a drawing:

http://www5.head-fi.org/forums/attac...1&d=1089907514

If you are familiar with the construction of moving coil transducers , the differences should be readily apparent.

.

 

[JeffS]

I would strongly suggest giving the Westones a chance. I've listened to a number of Shure phones, and owned etymotics before getting the Westones. If highs bother you, you'll like the Westone sound. They are still there, but it won't have that sizzle you're referring to. It's a very warm comfortable almost cozy sound.

On top of the good sound, they are also the most comfortable phones I've tried yet.

good luck

-Jeff

 

[tucker71]

Thanks guys.

As for my "other equipment" I am using the Shure PSM600 beltpacks and transmitter.
I don't really know what outboard gear my monitor guy uses. It's a fairly small rack though. Probably just compressors, limiters, and EQ's (and a feedback eliminator for singers who still use wedges)
I choose not to use any reverb or delay units in my ears. Of course...the FOH guy adds whatever he wants. Obviously, I'm not affected by that part of the mixing process.


Other than that...I plug directly into my Video iPod and/or my laptop. I'm actually the happiest with my laptop audio. Maybe there's a good little amp or soundcard or something in there. I dunno about that stuff.


I'm gonna look into a portable amp for the iPod. The smaller the better. I'm sure my roadie will try to build one for me. I'll post pictures of THAT disaster!

 

[p0wderh0und23]

Quote:

What I heard (from my audiologist) was... employees of Westone basically "defected" and started Ultimate Ears.

... your audiologist would be mistaken.


Quote:

Regardless, I wouldn't be shocked to find out that all the IEM companies use the same drivers. Especially when you consider how similar in price they all are. Can't really be all THAT much difference.

...Similar technology, not the same drivers. The best advice anyone can give you is, A/B several different earphones, and let your ears decide for you. There are pretty major differences between Shure, FS, UE, Etymotic, Westone and others.
There are pros and cons to both balanced armatures and dynamic drivers.

 

[Dr.Sade]

Quote:

Originally Posted by setmenu Here is a drawing: http://www5.head-fi.org/forums/attac...1&d=1089907514 If you are familiar with the construction of moving coil transducers , the differences should be readily apparent. .

Dynamic driver: fluctuating magnetic field emitted from a COIL attached to a diaphragm interacts with an external permanent MAGNET'S static field causing it to oscillate.

Armature driver: fluctuating magnetic field emitted from a COIL (interacting with permanent MAGNET's static field) oscillates a Balanced Armature + drive rod that is attached to a diaphragm?

So does the diaphragm with the drive rod attached to it have less inertia (is lighter?) than the diaphragm with the coil attached to it allowing it to move more nimbly and have more clear mids-highs????????????


Historically, the electrostatic driver, which oscillated a charged diaphragm between a fluctuating electric field (not magnetic field), had the lightest diaphragm and hence the clearest mids?

Apparently, "nano-composite" technology diaphragms are the lightest of them all?

 

[Dr.Sade]

So when is somebody going to come out with a "nano-composite" technology IEM driver? Knock knock SONY. Anybody in there?

 

[kwkarth]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dr.Sade Dynamic driver: oscillating magnetic field emitted from a coil oscillates a diaphragm that has a MAGNET attached to it. Armature driver: oscillating magnetic field emitted from a "magnetic" armature oscillates a diaphragm that has a COIL attached to it. ...

Pictures or not, there is something wrong here.

Dynamic drivers have stationary magnets and the voice coils are attached to their diaphragms. I will look into armature drivers and post the correct information.

 

[setmenu]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dr.Sade Dynamic driver: oscillating magnetic field emitted from a coil oscillates a diaphragm that has a MAGNET attached to it. Armature driver: oscillating magnetic field emitted from a "magnetic" armature oscillates a diaphragm that has a COIL attached to it.

Neither the moving coil [you call dynamic] or the balanced armature use moving magnets.

The moving coil is just that,the coil is attached to the diaphragm and moves
within in a magnetic field generated by a fixed permanent magnet.

http://electronics.howstuffworks.com/speaker5.htm

The balanced armature has fixed coil/magnet arrangement, its diaphragm
being driven indirectly via a rod attached to a metal lever that moves
under the influence of the fluctuating magnetic filed generated by the coil
magnet combo.
Think of one of those alarm bells you see where a little hammer strikes the
bell, but instead of striking the bell the lever moves a diaphragm too and fro.



.

 

[kwkarth]

It's interesting that the balanced armature driver design was actually invented in 1918 or thereabouts. The like drivers we have today are a refinement of that original design. The original design was abandoned in favor of moving coil driver designs due to bandwidth and frequency range limitations. Today, in IEMs, the opposite is true. In the micro environment of IEM, the balanced armature design is capable of producing wider frequency response and better noise isolation characteristics than conventional coil driven (ear bud) designs.

BTW, I noticed that the definition of dynamic drivers was incorrect in Wikipedia, so I corrected it.

 

[riker1384]

Quote:

Originally Posted by kwkarth It's interesting that the balanced armature driver design was actually invented in 1918 or thereabouts. The like drivers we have today are a refinement of that original design. The original design was abandoned in favor of moving coil driver designs due to bandwidth and frequency range limitations. Today, in IEMs, the opposite is true. In the micro environment of IEM, the balanced armature design is capable of producing wider frequency response and better noise isolation characteristics than conventional coil driven (ear bud) designs. BTW, I noticed that the definition of dynamic drivers was incorrect in Wikipedia, so I corrected it.

If you have a good source on the invention date & other things, it might be a good idea to start a Wikipedia article about balanced-armature drivers.

 

[kwkarth]

Quote:

Originally Posted by riker1384 If you have a good source on the invention date & other things, it might be a good idea to start a Wikipedia article about balanced-armature drivers.

That's a good idea. I have started collecting historical information and will update the headphone section of Wikipedia when I finish getting it together.
Thanks

 

[Dr.Sade]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dr.Sade Dynamic driver: fluctuating magnetic field emitted from a COIL attached to a diaphragm interacts with an external permanent MAGNET's static field causing the diaphragm to oscillate. Armature driver: fluctuating magnetic field emitted from a COIL (interacting with permanent MAGNET's static field) oscillates a Balanced Armature + drive rod that is attached to a diaphragm? So does the diaphragm with the drive rod attached to it have less inertia (is lighter?) than the diaphragm with the coil attached to it allowing it to move more nimbly and have more clear mids-highs??????????? Historically, the electrostatic driver, which oscillated a charged diaphragm between a fluctuating electric field (not magnetic), had the lightest diaphragm and hence the clearest mids? Apparently, "nano-composite" technology diaphragms are the lightest of them all?

I revised my description of the Dynamic and Balanced Armature drivers based on your input. Hope, I got it right this time. The diagram seems to indicate that a vibrating Balanced Armature vibrates the drive rod which vibrates the diaphragm?


For me the key question is why a Balanced Armature driver is an improvement (sonically) over a Dynamic driver (or is it)? Does it in fact lessen the inertia of the diaphragm by making it lighter or does it just exert more control over the diaphragm (or neither; maybe improved sound has nothing to do with it); maybe it just enables them to design a smaller IEM?

 

[Dr.Sade]

Anybody know how "nano-composite" diaphragms are oscillated and what makes them "nano" technology (e.g. SONY Qualia 010, SA5000).