[chocomel167]

Given an amplifier has a specific output power into 100 ohm load (headphone) and half that power into 50 ohms, how would you characterize the output impedance of the amp? What’s causing a 50% drop in power when it should have doubled down? I mean, we’re not talking driving a dead short here, 50 ohms is sort of an average as headphones go.

If the power is halving with half the load I would assume the amp is current limited at both loads.

Just like you would expect halving of power with doubling of load impedance when an amp is voltage limited.

More importantly, how does this relate to its sound character?

With just this basic info, personally i wouldn't make sweeping conclusions.

 

[efejoao]

There is nothing wrong with using a warm amp to reduce some of the aggressiveness from your other audio components. Both the V281 and 430 HA are tuned this direction no?

IMO and to my ears, the 430 doesn't sound warm but I am listening to analytical headphones (Diana TC). So I may be biased

 

[Joe Skubinski]

All modern amps are for the most part flat frequency response, yet that all sound different. That's the trouble with measurements, they require experience to interpret them, and even then it's only part of the overall picture, that is unless you designed the thing.

If you're saying that amplifier current limitations will not affect the sound, try inserting your 2 Mohm resistor in series with a low efficiency planar headphone such a DTC and see how it affects dynamics. It would be like having a 6000 km headphone cable in length.

Need to also consider the root cause of the limitation, power supply related, output Z, and/or some sort of active current limiter at work, dunno as we didn't design the thing. My guess would be at least 2 are in play. Not to mention there may have been running changes/revisions to the design that we would not be privy to. An amp made in 2014 may not be the same as a later version.

Power curve is litteraly entierly independent from output impedence. On top of that, even if the v281 had 2,000,000 ohm OI it still wouldn't change the FR of DTC as Diana (at least the v2 and phi that have been measured) have a flat impedence curve (as is expected by nature of being a planar).

 

[eskamobob1]

If you're saying that amplifier current limitations will not affect the sound, try inserting your 2 Mohm resistor in series with a low efficiency planar headphone such a DTC and see how it affects dynamics. It would be like having a 6000 km headphone cable in length.

At least you realize how dumb the last comment wad with that goal post moving (remeber we were talking about power curves? And any and all Oi changes by nature apply at all output levels?)

I don't disagree that amps sound different dispite having flat FR. I'm pointing out how obscenely out of your depth you are based on the only two technical comments you have made being factualy wrong and demonstrating a fundamental lack of understanding of amplifier technology.

Also, just for the record, a 5km long cable would have a measurable and calculable roll off because it's not just a resistive load but also a capacitive one. Here is an article on it if you ever feel like learning instead of being dismissive and probably wrong

Need to also consider the root cause of the limitation, power supply related, output Z, and/or some sort of active current limiter at work, dunno as we didn't design the thing. My guess would be at least 2 are in play. Not to mention there may have been running changes/revisions to the design that we would not be privy to. An amp made in 2014 may not be the same as a later version.

The limitation is not related to OI. Have you litteraly never even heard of an OTA? Current drive amplifiers have output inpedences in the millions of ohms and have power outputs that are litteraly identical between their current drive (several million ohm OI) and voltage drive (fractions of an ohm OI) outputs. The bakoon HPA-21 and re-leaf e3 are perfect examples of this. I mean seriously, this kind of information takes litterlay a couple hours on google to find with no background and you clearly can't even be assed to do that much digging. As one company owner to another I pretty highly recommend you make an anonymous account and be a joke anonymouslh instead of continuing to make your company appear to be a bigger and bigger joke.

Sincerely,
An Abyss customer

 

[Joe Skubinski]

I see the model Violecric V550 is made for lower impedances.
Since you have 2 of them, which Bakoon works best with DTC?

 

[eskamobob1]

I see the model Violecric V550 is made for lower impedances.
Since you have 2 of them, which Bakoon works best with DTC?

Current drive of the 21 > 13r > current drive 01M > voltage drive 21 > voltage drive 01M

13r is more technical than 21 but didn't play as well with the deep sound stage as the 21 or control give enough energy to the bass. Plus the sweetness of the 21 on current drive realy helped the peaky mids tbh. So far my favorite amp though has been cavalli liquid crimson + Philip harleen ec88 from the 70s

 

[Joe Skubinski]

Sounds about right.
Have a Cavalli Liquid Fire staring me in the face, been meaning to find tubes for. It was a sweet sounding amp back in the day.

 

[up late]

why bother when it's 'obsolete'

 

[Joe Skubinski]

To relive my youth

 

[IanB52]

I recently tried the Formula S+Powerman combo, Enleum Amp-23r, Luxman p-750u, and Ferrum Oor+Hypsos with my Diana TCs and the one that really brought them to life was the Ferrum combo. Some nice things going on with XI Audio and Enleum, but with the Ferrum setup there is so much speed and bass power and the tonal balance is almost faultless.

I think those who have been dogging the DTC have not been using the right amp, because right now this setup absolutely rocks. I was going to post an in depth comparison between the LCD-5 I have for a few weeks and the Diana TC, but I've made so many source changes. I ended up returning my LCD-5 feeling pretty pissed that they had deliberately tuned it to sound bad, obnoxious upper midrange and thin bass, and used the refund money for the DTC.

To summarize, at least on low-medium power amps, the Audeze had a more balanced midrange except that ghastly 3.5khz hump, and more speed and dynamics in the midrange. But the DTC was more comfortable, musical, much better bass (power) and treble, deep black background and rich tonal colors (unlike LCD-5s greyish sound), better spacial contrast (compared to Audeze more etched edge-contrast), and overall sounded less clinical and more vibrant. Once I got into some more powerful amps like the XI Audio and Ferrum, the less balanced "W" shape of the midrange seemed to disappear into a more linear and full sound. At this point I am very happy with the Diana TCs.

Maybe a better amp would have fixed the LCD-5? But it was painful to wear, clinical, and I just can't forgive them more now unpleasantly tuned it is. Whatever the philosophy or thinking Audeze has where they take a line of amazingly tuned and musical headphones and then make their flagship and deliberately nasal and unpleasant sounding tuning with the idea that you use EQ to fix it, I'm just not on board with that at all. It's got to sound decent with extra DSP. Diana TC got it right, and I've never heard another headphone with these same vibrant colors, deep black, and subwoofer like bass (haven't heard the 1266).

 

[sparkylarky]

I recently tried the Formula S+Powerman combo, Enleum Amp-23r, Luxman p-750u, and Ferrum Oor+Hypsos with my Diana TCs and the one that really brought them to life was the Ferrum combo. Some nice things going on with XI Audio and Enleum, but with the Ferrum setup there is so much speed and bass power and the tonal balance is almost faultless.

I think those who have been dogging the DTC have not been using the right amp, because right now this setup absolutely rocks. I was going to post an in depth comparison between the LCD-5 I have for a few weeks and the Diana TC, but I've made so many source changes. I ended up returning my LCD-5 feeling pretty pissed that they had deliberately tuned it to sound bad, obnoxious upper midrange and thin bass, and used the refund money for the DTC.

To summarize, at least on low-medium power amps, the Audeze had a more balanced midrange except that ghastly 3.5khz hump, and more speed and dynamics in the midrange. But the DTC was more comfortable, musical, much better bass (power) and treble, deep black background and rich tonal colors (unlike LCD-5s greyish sound), better spacial contrast (compared to Audeze more etched edge-contrast), and overall sounded less clinical and more vibrant. Once I got into some more powerful amps like the XI Audio and Ferrum, the less balanced "W" shape of the midrange seemed to disappear into a more linear and full sound. At this point I am very happy with the Diana TCs.

Maybe a better amp would have fixed the LCD-5? But it was painful to wear, clinical, and I just can't forgive them more now unpleasantly tuned it is. Whatever the philosophy or thinking Audeze has where they take a line of amazingly tuned and musical headphones and then make their flagship and deliberately nasal and unpleasant sounding tuning with the idea that you use EQ to fix it, I'm just not on board with that at all. It's got to sound decent with extra DSP. Diana TC got it right, and I've never heard another headphone with these same vibrant colors, deep black, and subwoofer like bass (haven't heard the 1266).

I totally agree regarding amplification.
Moving to the Ferrum Oor&Hypsos stack was like a night-and-day experience for me, a great pairing for the Diana TC!

 

[marcus2704]

Well in my case I am currently using Astell & Kern SP2000T with my Diana TCs, because the XI Audio Formula S / Powerman is slowly making its way across the globe to me here in the UK, from Canada. I did get the Sagre yesterday though from elsewhere so I am one-third complete! The SP2000T is able to drive the TCs however there is not a great deal of headroom, my usage is of a volume set to about 130 (of 150 allowable) on the SP2000T, those looking to truly 'rock out' might be disappointed that it cannot go louder. It works though, I am not finding the combo to be spectacular, more functional at this point. I do hope the XI Audio stack brings a lot to the table and allows the TCs to perform at least to my expectations.

 

[prmlt]

Well in my case I am currently using Astell & Kern SP2000T with my Diana TCs, because the XI Audio Formula S / Powerman is slowly making its way across the globe to me here in the UK, from Canada. I did get the Sagre yesterday though from elsewhere so I am one-third complete! The SP2000T is able to drive the TCs however there is not a great deal of headroom, my usage is of a volume set to about 130 (of 150 allowable) on the SP2000T, those looking to truly 'rock out' might be disappointed that it cannot go louder. It works though, I am not finding the combo to be spectacular, more functional at this point. I do hope the XI Audio stack brings a lot to the table and allows the TCs to perform at least to my expectations.

Well the comparison should not really be made : the A&K can output 6vrms in symmetrical and 3vrms asymmetrically so beside the lack of headroom you mention, there is a real struggle to “power” such demanding headphone properly. I had the same realisation when i hooked diana TC to my Gryphon, it gets to a correct listening volume but the experience is “meh”, next to it would be plugging the diana directly to your macbook
On Diana v2 it’s already a bit better!

 

[phalanx2357]

I totally agree regarding amplification.
Moving to the Ferrum Oor&Hypsos stack was like a night-and-day experience for me, a great pairing for the Diana TC!

We have the same headphones and I also have the Topping A90. How much improvement do you feel going from the A90 to the Ferrum and how would you describe the improvements? Also a question about Ferrum itself. Do you have to have the Oor and Hypsos or is the Oor by itself OK? How much of a difference is there with or without the Hypsos?

Thanks

 

[sparkylarky]

We have the same headphones and I also have the Topping A90. How much improvement do you feel going from the A90 to the Ferrum and how would you describe the improvements? Also a question about Ferrum itself. Do you have to have the Oor and Hypsos or is the Oor by itself OK? How much of a difference is there with or without the Hypsos?

Thanks

For me going from A90 to Ferrum stack was a big leap.
The A90 had a very clean sound but was also a bit clinical. It did a great job with dynamic headphones but not so much with demanding planars.
The Ferrum is a lot more powerful, more "realistic" sounding but also has a tiny touch of warmth to it compared to the A90.
It is just more crisp, richer and pronounced across the board.
Everything is better defined and more detailed. Bass is better defined and punches more.
It is definitely an amp that will stay with me for a long time.

I got a good deal for the Ferrum bundle, so always had them together and so far I never tried the Oor without the Hypsos but maybe one day I will.
Most people on here and in reviews agree that the Oor alone is great but with the Hypsos even better, some describe the differences between with or without Hypsos here:
https://www.head-fi.org/threads/ferrum-oor-headphone-amplifier-with-a-soul.958541/