[TheMiddleSky]

Any non-tube AMP recommendations for the Diana TC appreciated. I was thinking about a GSX Mini.

With or without Powerman, I would choose Formula S anytime any day over GSX MKii to drive Diana. More controlled, fuller sound, smoother, and also darker black background with Formuls S. Never compared it to GSX Mini though.

 

[Slim1970]

With or without Powerman, I would choose Formula S anytime any day over GSX MKii to drive Diana. More controlled, fuller sound, smoother, and also darker black background with Formuls S. Never compared it to GSX Mini though.

I don't know. I've had the full XIAudio stack and the GS-X MK2 with the Dave/HMS as the source at the same time. The GS-X MK2 plays cleaner with better instrument separation and the sound is just as weighted and controlled to my ears. I do agree with the Formula S/Powerman playing smoother, but the Dave /HMS/GS-X plays with an edge, had better attack, better dynamics and faster transients with hard hitting bass. The two setups highlighted different aspects of the Diana's, but both are enjoyable

 

[jlbrach]

GSX-Mini is a good match but will not drive the Diana TC at its fullest. Pretty solid choice if not the best for the price nonetheless.
When i was looking out for under $4k SS amps i had my eyes on the Liquid Gold from Cavalli (9W @ 50 ohm i believe) : https://www.head-fi.org/showcase/cavalli-audio-liquid-gold.19883/

There was a used model on ebay a few days ago that went for roughly the price of the gsx mini.
Powerman + Formula S or any XI Audio seem like a good pairing too, but you're already in a $5/6k figure

I own the formula s/powerman with my TC and LOVE the combo....I used to own the diana Phi and the mini is a good option for a fraction of the cost

 

[SoundJedi]

GSX-Mini is a good match but will not drive the Diana TC at its fullest. Pretty solid choice if not the best for the price nonetheless.
When i was looking out for under $4k SS amps i had my eyes on the Liquid Gold from Cavalli (9W @ 50 ohm i believe) : https://www.head-fi.org/showcase/cavalli-audio-liquid-gold.19883/

There was a used model on ebay a few days ago that went for roughly the price of the gsx mini.
Powerman + Formula S or any XI Audio seem like a good pairing too, but you're already in a $5/6k figure

If you happen to be in London you are welcome to bring your Diana TC and try the said Cavalli Liquid Gold .

 

[IanB52]

I'd skew more blame towards his gear and referential comparative context. You can perfect the TC drivers with tubes but he's very generally lukewarm overall.
I've already provided my thoughts on the DTC previous in the thread.

I noticed some of the midrange tonal stuff he talks about when I used it with my Mytek Manhattan II amp, which is 750ma unbalanced. Once I got up to the XI stack, Enleum, and Luxman p-750u, all of that went away. He just doesn't have enough power.

Maybe a correct point that it is priced a bit high, but I think the rest of the review is off because he isn't using enough amp power. Wave Theory loves LCD-5, and frankly having owned both, I think they are pretty comparable. For me, because I like bass and don't like tons of excess bite and edge, and I like tone color, I prefer the DTC. I can't stand the LCD-5 "AM Radio" upper midrange, so it's a no brainer, even if a little midrange dynamic and speed is traded away.

 

[Spawn300Z]

I can’t wait for the Release of the Diana Closed Back. I like the form factor for traveling. Currently use the V2s when traveling.

 

[WaveTheory]

Hello, everyone. Thanks for watching my Diana TC review and having a thoughtful conversation afterward. Since some aren't clear, here is the primary signal chain I used for DTC:

Windows 10 PC w/ Audirvana > Shunyata Venom USB cable > Singxer SU-2 DDC > WBC AES cable > Berkeley Alpha Series 2 DAC > WBC XLR cables > Violectric HPA-V281.

I used this same chain to do a fair amount of testing when I had the 1266 in house and the issues I noticed with the DTC's bass weren’t on the radar screen with 1266 powered by V281 (deep, punchy, quick, tuneful, textured, all the good adjectives). The V281 may not be the most powerful amp out there, but saying it's underpowered is a bit of stretch. The V281 has also driven lots of other hard-to-drive cans like Susvara, HE6se V2, Stealth and shown no signs of injecting tonal weirdness or lacking the oomph to bring out bass extension. When I had the 1266, I also had a RAAL HSA-1b on loan, which is rated for higher power than V281, and the 1266 was more mid-forward on the RAAL than the Vio. If you watch my other reviews, you'll see the V281 actually relaxes the mids for pretty much every headphone you throw at it. If you read my Diana Phi review from Spring 2021 (https://www.head-fi.org/showcase/abyss-headphones-diana.22827/reviews), you’ll also see that the tonality of the Phi was too aggressively mid-forward for me on the HeadAmp GS-X Mini, which is on Abyss’s list of recommended amps. I had the Vio HPA-V200 at the time and remember the V200 relaxing the Diana Phi’s mids as well, but not to point where I would personally spend $4K on it. If anything, evidence suggests the Vio signature tames the Abyss mids.

To my ear the DTC was just way out ahead of the already mid-forward 1266 and Diana Phi. I 100% agree that signal chains matter and that synergy is a real thing. I’ll also agree the V281 and the DTC may not be the best sonic match for each other. However, there is a big gap between “not best sonic match” and “chain is too flawed to give fair review”.

Either way, I’m glad you all enjoy your Abyss headphones. They aren’t for me, but there are some strengths (BASS from 1266 and Phi, being a big strength) that make them worthwhile for a good number of listeners. I wish they had an option that was as powerful and amazing in the bass as 1266 but more natural and tonally balanced through the mids. I will be the first to say they get that right if/when they do get that right.

TBH, I hate doing negative reviews. They are not fun. I don’t like recommending against products from small companies as IMO the more small audio companies we have, the richer our hobby is. That said, I dislike even more the prospect of people spending $4.5K on something that probably shouldn’t be worth that…again…that just being my opinion.

Cheers all, and enjoy the music.

 

[n2413]

Here's probably a stupid question, or a stupid solution... I want to be able to listen to my TC's in my office, but away from my desk (~15 feet). I have the shorter balanced 4 pin XLR cable, are there any issues with using an XLR extension cable? I can then route that around the room to my listening chair.

 

[n2413]

Hello, everyone. Thanks for watching my Diana TC review and having a thoughtful conversation afterward. Since some aren't clear, here is the primary signal chain I used for DTC:

Windows 10 PC w/ Audirvana > Shunyata Venom USB cable > Singxer SU-2 DDC > WBC AES cable > Berkeley Alpha Series 2 DAC > WBC XLR cables > Violectric HPA-V281.

I used this same chain to do a fair amount of testing when I had the 1266 in house and the issues I noticed with the DTC's bass weren’t on the radar screen with 1266 powered by V281 (deep, punchy, quick, tuneful, textured, all the good adjectives). The V281 may not be the most powerful amp out there, but saying it's underpowered is a bit of stretch. The V281 has also driven lots of other hard-to-drive cans like Susvara, HE6se V2, Stealth and shown no signs of injecting tonal weirdness or lacking the oomph to bring out bass extension. When I had the 1266, I also had a RAAL HSA-1b on loan, which is rated for higher power than V281, and the 1266 was more mid-forward on the RAAL than the Vio. If you watch my other reviews, you'll see the V281 actually relaxes the mids for pretty much every headphone you throw at it. If you read my Diana Phi review from Spring 2021 (https://www.head-fi.org/showcase/abyss-headphones-diana.22827/reviews), you’ll also see that the tonality of the Phi was too aggressively mid-forward for me on the HeadAmp GS-X Mini, which is on Abyss’s list of recommended amps. I had the Vio HPA-V200 at the time and remember the V200 relaxing the Diana Phi’s mids as well, but not to point where I would personally spend $4K on it. If anything, evidence suggests the Vio signature tames the Abyss mids.

To my ear the DTC was just way out ahead of the already mid-forward 1266 and Diana Phi. I 100% agree that signal chains matter and that synergy is a real thing. I’ll also agree the V281 and the DTC may not be the best sonic match for each other. However, there is a big gap between “not best sonic match” and “chain is too flawed to give fair review”.

Either way, I’m glad you all enjoy your Abyss headphones. They aren’t for me, but there are some strengths (BASS from 1266 and Phi, being a big strength) that make them worthwhile for a good number of listeners. I wish they had an option that was as powerful and amazing in the bass as 1266 but more natural and tonally balanced through the mids. I will be the first to say they get that right if/when they do get that right.

TBH, I hate doing negative reviews. They are not fun. I don’t like recommending against products from small companies as IMO the more small audio companies we have, the richer our hobby is. That said, I dislike even more the prospect of people spending $4.5K on something that probably shouldn’t be worth that…again…that just being my opinion.

Cheers all, and enjoy the music.

Thanks for the review! It's interesting how different reviews are, Josh Valor just did his DTC vs LCD5 vs MEE, his findings were almost opposite to yours. I think we just accept that everyone hears music and equipment differently.

 

[paradoxper]

Here's probably a stupid question, or a stupid solution... I want to be able to listen to my TC's in my office, but away from my desk (~15 feet). I have the shorter balanced 4 pin XLR cable, are there any issues with using an XLR extension cable? I can then route that around the room to my listening chair.

No issues. Don't trip.

 

[Joe Skubinski]

@WaveTheory
You're running what we would consider obsolete gear.

The Berkley S2 DAC is an old design, DAC's have come a long way since circa 2012. This is most likely the largest flaw in your system, the source, no getting around it.

The V281 amp was not exactly designed with low efficiency planars in mind. It's a current limited high voltage amp by design, that was their schtick back in 2014. The power supply is all voltage, not current, when it runs out of current, it runs out hard. It's why when you go down in impedance, the amp outputs less power. It's a wimpy power supply as current goes. It's definitely not an amp you see ABYSS AB1266 Phi TC or Diana TC owners using.

Here in lies the issue. If you're trying to review headphones at this level, experience aside, you must have proper ancillary gear for the job. Otherwise, all that video bandwidth is nothing but useless blabber describing the sound of an incompetent system being called out by the headphone. This, and you've never really explored the headphone's capabilities beyond another. There's no learning curve here.

On another note, had you done some homework and spoken to anyone in the community prior to publishing your dilemma with negative reviews, someone if not I would have steered you straight. There are plenty of ABYSS owners here, threads devoted to each model to easily see what gear people are currently using. These are targets you should aim for, and if that fails you, companies such as ours have email, social media, and a telephone number where you can communicate with extremely knowledgeable and passionate people.
Try it sometime.

Since some aren't clear, here is the primary signal chain I used for DTC:

Windows 10 PC w/ Audirvana > Shunyata Venom USB cable > Singxer SU-2 DDC > WBC AES cable > Berkeley Alpha Series 2 DAC > WBC XLR cables > Violectric HPA-V281.

 

[TDinCali]

Hello, everyone. Thanks for watching my Diana TC review and having a thoughtful conversation afterward. Since some aren't clear, here is the primary signal chain I used for DTC:

Windows 10 PC w/ Audirvana > Shunyata Venom USB cable > Singxer SU-2 DDC > WBC AES cable > Berkeley Alpha Series 2 DAC > WBC XLR cables > Violectric HPA-V281.

I used this same chain to do a fair amount of testing when I had the 1266 in house and the issues I noticed with the DTC's bass weren’t on the radar screen with 1266 powered by V281 (deep, punchy, quick, tuneful, textured, all the good adjectives). The V281 may not be the most powerful amp out there, but saying it's underpowered is a bit of stretch. The V281 has also driven lots of other hard-to-drive cans like Susvara, HE6se V2, Stealth and shown no signs of injecting tonal weirdness or lacking the oomph to bring out bass extension. When I had the 1266, I also had a RAAL HSA-1b on loan, which is rated for higher power than V281, and the 1266 was more mid-forward on the RAAL than the Vio. If you watch my other reviews, you'll see the V281 actually relaxes the mids for pretty much every headphone you throw at it. If you read my Diana Phi review from Spring 2021 (https://www.head-fi.org/showcase/abyss-headphones-diana.22827/reviews), you’ll also see that the tonality of the Phi was too aggressively mid-forward for me on the HeadAmp GS-X Mini, which is on Abyss’s list of recommended amps. I had the Vio HPA-V200 at the time and remember the V200 relaxing the Diana Phi’s mids as well, but not to point where I would personally spend $4K on it. If anything, evidence suggests the Vio signature tames the Abyss mids.

To my ear the DTC was just way out ahead of the already mid-forward 1266 and Diana Phi. I 100% agree that signal chains matter and that synergy is a real thing. I’ll also agree the V281 and the DTC may not be the best sonic match for each other. However, there is a big gap between “not best sonic match” and “chain is too flawed to give fair review”.

Either way, I’m glad you all enjoy your Abyss headphones. They aren’t for me, but there are some strengths (BASS from 1266 and Phi, being a big strength) that make them worthwhile for a good number of listeners. I wish they had an option that was as powerful and amazing in the bass as 1266 but more natural and tonally balanced through the mids. I will be the first to say they get that right if/when they do get that right.

TBH, I hate doing negative reviews. They are not fun. I don’t like recommending against products from small companies as IMO the more small audio companies we have, the richer our hobby is. That said, I dislike even more the prospect of people spending $4.5K on something that probably shouldn’t be worth that…again…that just being my opinion.

Cheers all, and enjoy the music.

Watched the review and for whatever reason my opinion is very different. I've owned many TOTL headphones and I find the DTC to be one of my favorite. The mids and highs on the DTC are one of my favorite. There is nothing offensive about the sound. They have great tonal balance. Not sure whether it's your ears, taste, experience, type of music, how you listen or chain but your analysis seems way off base to me. Good luck with the channel.

 

[adrianm]

@WaveTheory
You're running what we would consider obsolete gear.

The Berkley S2 DAC is an old design, DAC's have come a long way since circa 2012. This is most likely the largest flaw in your system, the source, no getting around it.

The V281 amp was not exactly designed with low efficiency planars in mind. It's a current limited high voltage amp by design, that was their schtick back in 2014. The power supply is all voltage, not current, when it runs out of current, it runs out hard. It's why when you go down in impedance, the amp outputs less power. It's a wimpy power supply as current goes. It's definitely not an amp you see ABYSS AB1266 Phi TC or Diana TC owners using.

Here in lies the issue. If you're trying to review headphones at this level, experience aside, you must have proper ancillary gear for the job. Otherwise, all that video bandwidth is nothing but useless blabber describing the sound of an incompetent system being called out by the headphone. This, and you've never really explored the headphone's capabilities beyond another. There's no learning curve here.

On another note, had you done some homework and spoken to anyone in the community prior to publishing your dilemma with negative reviews, someone if not I would have steered you straight. There are plenty of ABYSS owners here, threads devoted to each model to easily see what gear people are currently using. These are targets you should aim for, and if that fails you, companies such as ours have email, social media, and a telephone number where you can communicate with extremely knowledgeable and passionate people.
Try it sometime.

This is a bit uncalled for, and part of the reason why Abyss has a bit of a PR issue IMO. I know you guys are passionate about your products and have a considerable cult following, but at the end of the day it's a subjective hobby and not everything will be for everyone. Especially if your gear is this finnicky about the chain (now the amp's not enough, we need specific dacs for Abyss as well? ).
A reviewer's job is to post his impressions, whether or not those might upset people.
@WaveTheory is using the same (20k) dac he used to review all flagships and while he's new at this, he's quickly becoming one of my favorite reviewers, because he tells it as it is. He also dismissed the Meze Elite and much preferred the LCD-5.
I got both of them for a home audition and bought the Elite in a heartbeat, even though I did hear that "veil" he was talking about, but the upgrade cable fixed it for me. Nonetheless, he was the only reviewer to point it out when people were calling me crazy for saying they sound veiled. So I'm pretty sure his gear is revealing enough to properly evaluate headphones.
I know you guys like to recommend your partners gear (XI Audio, Woo, Mytek) and more recently the Bartok, but i doubt the Sagra and Mytek dacs are even close to the Berkley in any metrics.
Most US companies want to be Apple, but the ones that actually do research, don't just pump out electronics like new Iphones. Dac technology really doesn't move that fast for it to be obsolete. I bet most Abyss users have dacs with off the shelf chips, as people mostly care about the amp.
A lot of people who's opinions I respect recommend Abyss, but I feel like posts like this affect your credibility. They are valid points to make (I don't think they hold water though) , but the optics are different from your position. It comes across very "David vs Goliath".

 

[Joe Skubinski]

Methodology needs to be discussed as to how it affects subjective opinions.

 

[TheMiddleSky]

I don't know. I've had the full XIAudio stack and the GS-X MK2 with the Dave/HMS as the source at the same time. The GS-X MK2 plays cleaner with better instrument separation and the sound is just as weighted and controlled to my ears. I do agree with the Formula S/Powerman playing smoother, but the Dave /HMS/GS-X plays with an edge, had better attack, better dynamics and faster transients with hard hitting bass. The two setups highlighted different aspects of the Diana's, but both are enjoyable

Actually, I agree with your opinion of GSX MK2, and that'e where the problem exist for me. Diana is a bit forward in midrange, with snappy impact, that lead to neutral-aggressive character. Combine with hard hitting attack and aggressive character of GSX Mk2, they become too much of good things. Understandable for other people to like the combo, but my playlist mostly contain of vocal jazz, pop, acoustic and new age songs that may not suit that character.