[up late]

Apologies. Corrected. My reply stands, however.

thanks

 

[seamon]

I still see a bunch of people arguing over nothing and no new measurements. Sigh

 

[SilverEars]

I find Amir's measurements to look a bit off with spikes in the highs I don't see on the other rigs. I thought he was loaned a GRAS rig? He doesn't know how to use it or something? It's not only the rig that matters, but the person measuring. They need to know how to measure. There are some brilliant people out there with lack of funds that can do much better job than somebody with an expensive rig because they just have better intuition in knowing how to measure stuff.

How come I don't see measurements of Diana out there? I hope Abyss sends out samples to various people so we see the measurements. I am curious how it generally measures.

 

[bithloman]

people can talk without measurements. have we really reached a point where some guy with a fancy rig can uproot the entire audio community with his "scientific" measurements with literally no peer review or actual evidence. poor scientific conclusions given when the measurements lack enough evidence to verify his claim about a product. he talks like he is god and everyone is stupid. while being a marketing tool for chinese corperations like topping and SMSL. i blind tested his theory that amps cannot sound different if he measures them the same. its literall a scam . i was blinded and plugged randomly into the wires of the amps and they sounded very different. its obvious he has an agenda to tell people that nothing matters but numbers i wonder what that could be? considering his favorite products are all chinese.

 

[A Jedi]

considering his favorite products are all chinese.

If you do a little research, you'll find he is an employee of said brands. PM if you want the details (not sure I'm allowed to post here).

 

[bithloman]

yes i am aware, i was banned from ASR for just asking a question about that. its a scam its so easy to look up. i believe i even saw him say that was the case and people still think he is the end all of sound in every capacity. if my ear is shaped different through my genetics which it is. things will sound different and sound waves produced by different equipment will sound different i mean its just common sense but here we are with the SECOND American company he openly tries to destroy in a row. and nothing about the topping destroying headphones he just left his amazing review up even when his fans were begging for days for him to post a warning.

 

[GoldenSound]

folks will read your post if they're interested. there's really no need to keep quoting it.

I was quoting it because people were saying there were no measurements from abyss.

Those measurements are from abyss. DMS works for abyss

 

[SilverEars]

I was quoting it because people were saying there were no measurements from abyss.

Those measurements are from abyss. DMS works for abyss

I hope it wasn't from DMS crappy rig he used to have. lol I recall his K371 review he posted his measurement with a dip in the upper-mids and he said he hears that. Impossible. K371 is upper-mids prominent. Which means his rig was horribly inaccurate.

 

[up late]

I was quoting it because people were saying there were no measurements from abyss.

Those measurements are from abyss. DMS works for abyss

DMS does ear pad modifications for abyss as I understand it. are you sure that they are actually abyss's own measurements or DMS's? and there's still no need to quote it twice.

 

[bithloman]

I hope it wasn't from DMS crappy rig he used to have. lol I recall his K371 review he posted his measurement with a dip in the upper-mids and he said he hears that. Impossible. K371 is upper-mids prominent. Which means his rig was horribly inaccurate.

based on what? your hearing? or someone elses measurement? who cares . everyone hears differently your ear is literally a meat tube with a organic sensor in the back that is different from person to person. anyone who says "this is how this sounds and anyone who says otherwise is lying" is a scam . reviewers are just opinion machines. best not to take them so seriously. even when they try to measure. its the best they had at the time.

 

[bluestorm1992]

DMS does ear pad modifications for abyss as I understand it. are you sure that they are actually abyss's own measurements or DMS's? and there's still no need to quote it twice.

DMS has been Abyss's employee for quite a while I believe. Abyss even has a video on their youtube channel talking about why they hired DMS lol.

 

[up late]

DMS has been Abyss's employee for quite a while I believe. Abyss even has a video on their youtube channel talking about why they hired DMS lol.

thanks for that information. now if it can be confirmed that the measurements @GoldenOne posted originated from abyss then that would be helpful.

 

[XUPX]

I love the conspiracy theories.
Also love how everyone is all of a sudden a measurements expert.
I doubt people bothered reading the many measurements he took of headphones in the months preceding to reviewing headphones. Trying to figure out which rogue to buy, how to conduct the measurements and how to present the data.
I also doubt people read the actual review and tried to understand why things are presented the way they are before making a fuss. I think that concerns that were raised in (semi) good faith₩ were addressed. If you don't, please bring some *new* evidence as to why that is wrong. Saying that the one other person that measured it with a less realistic rig (one ear) had different measurements is not going to be enough.
His company sells Marantz and Harman-Kardon and such, which he always prominently mentions and had some really good and some really bad reviews of their gear.
Mentioning "common sense" is exactly the problem. There are many things in life that were proven wrong by science and the scientific method that were common sense. Because humans have biases.
I also love how this has all of a sudden became a new front in US vs China.
The simple fact is that Topping and SMSL measure well because they bought the same analyzer, they have good engineers, they read and understood the methodology of his measurements and they, surprise, measure the gear before they sell it. Hell, for every one of those items they sell they have their own measurements that are basically identical to Amir's (they are calculated a tiny bit differently, so show a tiny bit of difference but very close). And they post those measurements. And send their gear to people, like Amir to measure it. Crazy, I know.
It's really funny. Pro audio companies have measurements for every speaker that leaves the factory. Genelec is an example. RME is a German company, from what i know well regarded here and measures really well. Engineering is good not bad.
I wish people were reacting like this when people were selling power conditioners and ethernet cables!!! People are fine paying hundreds of dollars for those but "god forbid someone disagrees with what I think about a headphone".
Or say that they hear it differently. Well, if you can hear it differently, so can others, in which case, why even talk about the experiences or read any reviews?? And there's that amazing thing you can do, not read that content.

You know people have no arguments when they start making personal attacks.
I'm done with this discussion. When people have something meaningful that actually has something to do with a potential flaw, I might rejoin.

 

[SHADYMILKMAN]

As for me and my company I would relish the opportunity to openly interact with a well documented 'outlier', especially if it was still open to peer review! I would definitely reach out to clear up any misunderstanding maybe share methodologies that would add fidelity to his observations. Throwing subs on an unrelated board instead of addressing the man directly, looks a way. Or we can safely take another perspective presented by the different sets of measurements in that it appears difficult to achieve consistency of fit.. no matter how well it might measure

 

[bithloman]

I love the conspiracy theories.
Also love how everyone is all of a sudden a measurements expert.
I doubt people bothered reading the many measurements he took of headphones in the months preceding to reviewing headphones. Trying to figure out which rogue to buy, how to conduct the measurements and how to present the data.
I also doubt people read the actual review and tried to understand why things are presented the way they are before making a fuss. I think that concerns that were raised in (semi) good faith₩ were addressed. If you don't, please bring some *new* evidence as to why that is wrong. Saying that the one other person that measured it with a less realistic rig (one ear) had different measurements is not going to be enough.
His company sells Marantz and Harman-Kardon and such, which he always prominently mentions and had some really good and some really bad reviews of their gear.
Mentioning "common sense" is exactly the problem. There are many things in life that were proven wrong by science and the scientific method that were common sense. Because humans have biases.
I also love how this has all of a sudden became a new front in US vs China.
The simple fact is that Topping and SMSL measure well because they bought the same analyzer, they have good engineers, they read and understood the methodology of his measurements and they, surprise, measure the gear before they sell it. Hell, for every one of those items they sell they have their own measurements that are basically identical to Amir's (they are calculated a tiny bit differently, so show a tiny bit of difference but very close). And they post those measurements. And send their gear to people, like Amir to measure it. Crazy, I know.
It's really funny. Pro audio companies have measurements for every speaker that leaves the factory. Genelec is an example. RME is a German company, from what i know well regarded here and measures really well. Engineering is good not bad.
I wish people were reacting like this when people were selling power conditioners and ethernet cables!!! People are fine paying hundreds of dollars for those but "god forbid someone disagrees with what I think about a headphone".
Or say that they hear it differently. Well, if you can hear it differently, so can others, in which case, why even talk about the experiences or read any reviews?? And there's that amazing thing you can do, not read that content.

You know people have no arguments when they start making personal attacks.
I'm done with this discussion. When people have something meaningful that actually has something to do with a potential flaw, I might rejoin.

I love the conspiracy theories.
Also love how everyone is all of a sudden a measurements expert.
I doubt people bothered reading the many measurements he took of headphones in the months preceding to reviewing headphones. Trying to figure out which rogue to buy, how to conduct the measurements and how to present the data.
I also doubt people read the actual review and tried to understand why things are presented the way they are before making a fuss. I think that concerns that were raised in (semi) good faith₩ were addressed. If you don't, please bring some *new* evidence as to why that is wrong. Saying that the one other person that measured it with a less realistic rig (one ear) had different measurements is not going to be enough.
His company sells Marantz and Harman-Kardon and such, which he always prominently mentions and had some really good and some really bad reviews of their gear.
Mentioning "common sense" is exactly the problem. There are many things in life that were proven wrong by science and the scientific method that were common sense. Because humans have biases.
I also love how this has all of a sudden became a new front in US vs China.
The simple fact is that Topping and SMSL measure well because they bought the same analyzer, they have good engineers, they read and understood the methodology of his measurements and they, surprise, measure the gear before they sell it. Hell, for every one of those items they sell they have their own measurements that are basically identical to Amir's (they are calculated a tiny bit differently, so show a tiny bit of difference but very close). And they post those measurements. And send their gear to people, like Amir to measure it. Crazy, I know.
It's really funny. Pro audio companies have measurements for every speaker that leaves the factory. Genelec is an example. RME is a German company, from what i know well regarded here and measures really well. Engineering is good not bad.
I wish people were reacting like this when people were selling power conditioners and ethernet cables!!! People are fine paying hundreds of dollars for those but "god forbid someone disagrees with what I think about a headphone".
Or say that they hear it differently. Well, if you can hear it differently, so can others, in which case, why even talk about the experiences or read any reviews?? And there's that amazing thing you can do, not read that content.

You know people have no arguments when they start making personal attacks.
I'm done with this discussion. When people have something meaningful that actually has something to do with a potential flaw, I might rejoin.

the argument is that the entire methodology of measuring distortion and telling thousands of people that something is better or broken based on your measurements that dont even line up with other peoples measurements is not only flawed but unethical and damaging to small companies trying to make it . all over sound which is subjective. the amount of hate towards abyss by his "fans" is insane, so there is discussion to be had about that, as for china vs USA. i mean that speaks for itself i wont get into it here. china has made its own reputation. no one man should have this much power because he posts a graph on a forum.