Diana: the second release by Abyss Headphones!
Jan 14, 2021 at 2:23 AM Post #3,317 of 3,891

A Jedi

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When Our Lord and Savior Amir starts measuring using complex musical material on a reactive load I'll take him more seriously. I can make a 1 or 5 or 10KHz tone generator that will smoke every measurement on Earth. And it will cost me a few pennies and take an hour to do. Just don't ask it to sound good with music.

How about something much simpler: how about measuring channel separation across the audio band? Two amps having perfectly flat frequency response will sound very different when their channel separation is not identical across the spectrum. You should be able to understand why this is so - it's not rocket science. Why is he not doing this? Where is the "science" and the "helping people not get ripped off using measurements"?

How about measuring cabinet resonances of speakers? A resonance may fit in just fine and make for an overall flat-ish speaker frequency response but it's going to cause serious smearing issues resulting in poor imaging, staging, etc.

How about measuring a headphone when it's properly seated? Oh you only have a flat plate coupler? So you're making a "scientific" measurement with the wrong tool then? What a rigorous, reliable scientist!

There are many more examples of the woefully pathetic "science" he does.

The vast majority of people here are not unhappy because of a bad review. They're unhappy because a review based on garbage is being sold as fact.
 
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Jan 14, 2021 at 2:37 AM Post #3,318 of 3,891

TDinCali

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What...

Amir is the campion of FACTS AND SCIENCE yet does not exhibit any sound scientific methods to determine if his test results are legitimate and proceeds to say they are fact....

dude is a clown...

This same pattern repeats over and over with his ‘measurements’... embarrassing.

I completely agree. After reading several pages on different forums there are two themes that pop up. The first is his integrity due to his relationship with certain brands. Secondly the methodology of his tests. As we all know that changing the position of the headphone will slightly alter the tone. Playing a headphone towards a mic that is inside a metal enclosure that is supposedly mimicking an ear canal is ridiculous. Lastly the performance of a speaker or headphone is more than just the flatness of a graph. Speed, sound stage, impact clarity, detail are all elements that can't be measured with a graph and the equipment that he has. So the whole thing is bogus.
 
Jan 14, 2021 at 3:07 AM Post #3,319 of 3,891

bithloman

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I completely agree. After reading several pages on different forums there are two themes that pop up. The first is his integrity due to his relationship with certain brands. Secondly the methodology of his tests. As we all know that changing the position of the headphone will slightly alter the tone. Playing a headphone towards a mic that is inside a metal enclosure that is supposedly mimicking an ear canal is ridiculous. Lastly the performance of a speaker or headphone is more than just the flatness of a graph. Speed, sound stage, impact clarity, detail are all elements that can't be measured with a graph and the equipment that he has. So the whole thing is bogus.
exactly. decay of a driver , is it titanium? how light weight is the woofer how does it react to different power levels? what about room gain and resonance? harmonics and so on you cant measure most of these things without lasers and even then it all changes when hitting a fleshy metal tube that is the ear and you cant measure what an ear can hear because we dont have external ears you can plug into a computer to test. its just amazing how many people are so religiously following him. its like watching a preacher that is scamming a church and it seems so obvious to you but the people there cant get enough. very weird that its about something that calls itself "science" but its about a subjective topic. its as close to a scam as you can get without actually being one, so misleading is the right word i guess. except for the fact that he claims outright fact and craps on this forum and others and tries to basically destroy brands reputation, it cant be coincidence that they are both american while he works for the chinese brands. thats the main problem he uses his snarky negative remarks as a weapon now that everyone knows about him. and its not even true! except for DACs MAYBE and not even then
 
Jan 14, 2021 at 6:09 AM Post #3,321 of 3,891

xRaptorxPunisher

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It’’s obvious that ASR’s measurements are flawed. Publishing inaccurate results using [admittedly] poor test methods and protocols shows a lack of integrity, definitely makes objectivists look bad. IMO he needs training and a lot more experience in measuring headphones, it’s not as straightforward as measuring amps.

I would advise you to conduct yourself in a professional manner. You have been juvenile on YouTube and on here regarding your replies to ASR review. If you disagree, maybe come back with some results of your own? From where I’m sitting you’re very insecure in your approach and makes it seem like you’re on the back foot with the data provided. I actually agree with ASR take on the headphones, sharp, sound tizzy, messed up timbre; thought they sounded bad compared to your original product which was an interesting experience. I don’t personally see how the other two which on my opinion are filler products are the price they are; not very good sounding at all. Are you going to reply back to tell me to get new ears? Or are you going to show how insecure you are to critical post?

let’s see some data points and constructive repliesfrom you and not you having a toddler tantrum, coming on here complaining about another forum just reeks of desperation and childish behaviour.
 
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Jan 14, 2021 at 6:54 AM Post #3,322 of 3,891

nonamepew

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As an outside with no obvious biases I can see 2 major issues with the whole situation:

1. Abyss not having official data for their headphones.
2. Amir publishing his review without cross checking it with Abyss.

For 1, I think a 3000 dollar headphone is not only a way to listen to music but also a technical masterpiece. And Abyss should give some basic data regarding their headphones. A lot of other manufacturers give THD values for their headphones. And some like Audeze also provide the frequency curve. Abyss is considered to be one of the best headphone manufacturers if not the best, and I see no reason they should not give THD values and other data.

Regarding point 2, I think Amir is not an amateur to notice that the data he got was not normal and he should have at least considered about sending a mail to abyss to confirm if the data he got is expected. Since, Abyss does not have any official data, it kind of clears Amir to post his review.

Just to compare this, I am a software engineer and when I think about using some open source library, I refer to their docs for performance numbers. But almost, I do some manual testing to see if those numbers cross check. But lets say I am using some library and I found that it is slow and there are no official numbers to compare then I can publish that data and claim that the library is slow. But if the official numbers are very different from mine then I would first look for what I am doing wrong.
 
Jan 14, 2021 at 7:37 AM Post #3,323 of 3,891

seamon

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As an outside with no obvious biases I can see 2 major issues with the whole situation:

1. Abyss not having official data for their headphones.
2. Amir publishing his review without cross checking it with Abyss.

For 1, I think a 3000 dollar headphone is not only a way to listen to music but also a technical masterpiece. And Abyss should give some basic data regarding their headphones. A lot of other manufacturers give THD values for their headphones. And some like Audeze also provide the frequency curve. Abyss is considered to be one of the best headphone manufacturers if not the best, and I see no reason they should not give THD values and other data.

Regarding point 2, I think Amir is not an amateur to notice that the data he got was not normal and he should have at least considered about sending a mail to abyss to confirm if the data he got is expected. Since, Abyss does not have any official data, it kind of clears Amir to post his review.

Just to compare this, I am a software engineer and when I think about using some open source library, I refer to their docs for performance numbers. But almost, I do some manual testing to see if those numbers cross check. But lets say I am using some library and I found that it is slow and there are no official numbers to compare then I can publish that data and claim that the library is slow. But if the official numbers are very different from mine then I would first look for what I am doing wrong.
Personally, I prefer when reviewers act completely independently from companies. If they don't, the data might be skewed in the sense that they might be sent special hand picked samples of headphones. Read Bob Katz review of LCD 4 to get an idea of what I am talking about. The best kind of review is one wherein a sample is picked randomly from the wild.
 
Jan 14, 2021 at 8:06 AM Post #3,324 of 3,891

xRaptorxPunisher

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I agree, the most credible reviews are those which are done independently. While I don’t necessarily care about the AudioScience forum in terms of bias neither do I check that site regularly, data is data. I care about subjective impressions first and foremost and I agree with what Amir heard. Whether his measurements are reliable or not isn’t the highlight here, it’s the way Abyss, the company have handled the situation. I’ve seen many headphones critiqued, this is the first time I’ve seen one react like this, in an insecure, unprofessional manner which to be shows a lack of social interaction skills and insecurities about their product.
 
Jan 14, 2021 at 8:51 AM Post #3,327 of 3,891

DuncanDirkDick

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As an outside with no obvious biases I can see 2 major issues with the whole situation:

1. Abyss not having official data for their headphones.
2. Amir publishing his review without cross checking it with Abyss.

I don't see 2 as a problem. His methodology is published with the review and if someone is interested discussing that he probably can do so. I actually would have whished for that to happen with Abyss instead of the "you don't know anything about headphone measurements" comment. I guess we as customers would benefit from a refined testing methodology regardless of the manufacturer. But this childish play - regardless from which side - is annoying.
 
Jan 14, 2021 at 9:21 AM Post #3,328 of 3,891

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Jan 14, 2021 at 9:50 AM Post #3,329 of 3,891

buffalomatt

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Well maybe I am bad at this hobby, but I like the Diana V2. Not because I read all of its technical specs and was wowed by numbers, but because I like they way they sound. I like the way they look and feel. I like the way they make me feel when I am enjoying my music.

Ill admit Amir's review and measurements made me question my headphone purchase, but after taking a minute to relax and collect my thoughts I realized that his opinion/measurements don't change the level of enjoyment I get from my audio set up.

I agree with the sentiment that more facts and more information is better. But IMO this is a subjective hobby and even though we can strive to collect as much objective information as possible, that objective information will still be applied subjectively.
 
Jan 14, 2021 at 10:07 AM Post #3,330 of 3,891

HeavenlyD

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Christ, I’m wondering if I bought the right headphone brand now, graphs mean nothing to me, half of this doesn’t make any sense as I’m obviously not “audiophile enough” to understand it, but respect those that do.
But ya know what, having had one of the highest end tech departments in the world in Harrods and listening to many headphones and even comparing my Abyss ones to the likes of some focal etc, I bloody love them! They are planted on my head nearly all day, the sound I get blows me away but just like my car, many reviews state it doesn’t handle well at high speed due to weight, it does 11mpg in the U.K. and the bleepers go off all the time as if a ghost is walking infront of it, but I love the Italian woman in it and it scares the *** out of me sometimes...
Wouldn’t swop either for anything :)
Love you guys for being so passionate!
 

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