[MacedonianHero]

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The hd800 is also less neutral than the hd600 (according to general consensus). Although that's not too obvious from graph.

There's a general consensus on Head-fi? 

 
The HD600s are great cans, but they are not more neutral than the HD800s. They really lack in the bass department IMO to be considered spot on neutral. Then there's the imaging thing...they aren't even close.
 

 

[extrabigmehdi]

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There's a general consensus on Head-fi? 

ok, that's overstated.
But if you look at goldenear website, they consider the hd800 as very bright, according to the
treble relative to midrange rating (5/5  , 0 is neutral)
 
http://en.goldenears.net/4326

 

[MacedonianHero]

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ok, that's overstated.
But if you look at goldenear website, they consider the hd800 as very bright, according to the
treble relative to midrange rating (5/5  , 0 is neutral)
 
http://en.goldenears.net/4326

Funny, my ears (and the measurements above) show the HD600s as "brighter". I usually don't give that website much credence for silly commends like this.

 

[extrabigmehdi]

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Funny, my ears (and the measurements above) show the HD600s as "brighter". I usually don't give that website much credence for silly commends like this.

And there are countless post of people here complaining that the hd800 are too  bright.

 

[MacedonianHero]

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And there are countless post of people here complaining that the hd800 are too  bright.

 
Countless? Most who complain about the HD800's being bright have likely not taken the time to look into what they were feeding them in terms of source/dac/amp. Garbage in = garbage out.
 
Can the HD800s sound bright/thin on substandard gear? Sure, but why would one invest $1500 in a headphone and then skimp on the upstream gear. 

 Get that portion "right" and the HD800s will reward you in spades. I would reckon that most who have "heard" the HD800s have not heard them on a proper rig. But that's just my first hand experiences.

 

[extrabigmehdi]

Quote:

 
Countless? Most who complain about the HD800's being bright have likely not taken the time to look into what they were feeding them in terms of source/dac/amp. Garbage in = garbage out.
 
Can the HD800s sound bright/thin on substandard gear? Sure, but why would one invest $1500 in a headphone and then skimp on the upstream gear. 

 Get that portion "right" and the HD800s will reward you in spades. I would reckon that most who have "heard" the HD800s have not heard them on a proper rig. But that's just my first hand experiences.

 
My experience with the hd800 is that they are mildly bright, but it's not annoying because the treble bump is very smooth.
So I conceive that both can happen:  people that are more annoyed than other regarding that brightness, and depending of the music genre.

 

[MacedonianHero]

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My experience with the hd800 is that they are mildly bright, but it's not annoying because the treble bump is very smooth.
So I conceive that both can happen:  people that are more annoyed than other regarding that brightness, and depending of the music genre.

 
I stand by my comments on upstream gear and think many haven't really "heard" the HD800s at or close to their best. Are the HD800s brighter than my LCD-3s? Sure, but that's relative. I find the HD600s brighter still. 

 

[Magick Man]

Awfully overbassed (like D7100) and more treble? I cannot say I am impressed by TH900...

The huge difference is the THD numbers, on average, the TH900 is so much cleaner than the D7100. That makes a huge difference.

Also, Innerfidelity's charts are a little easier to read and analyze (TH900 on the right, D7100 on the left):



No huge peaks and valleys in the treble for the TH900, very smooth, very neutral.

Now, THD:



Holy snap. Almost 5% THD in the upper bass for the D7100, and an average of nearly 1%. :eek: That's audible and distracting for anyone, and it drove me bonkers. The TH900 caps at ~0.8% THD, but averages 0.4%. The TH900, depending on where you look on the chart, can be as much as 8x cleaner than the Denons.

I was surprised when I first saw the TH900 FR chart, but finally grasped what is going on, and Purrin voiced the same thing. The THD numbers are so low in the bass region, you need more bass output for them to sound natural and balanced. Despite a perceived similarity between the two FR charts, they don't correlate at all when actually listening to the headphones.

 

[extrabigmehdi]

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 The THD numbers are so low in the bass region, you need more bass output for them to sound natural and balanced.

This kind of reasoning is new to me.
So the  frequency response really can't help in achieving something more  neutral with equalization ?

 

[Magick Man]

This kind of reasoning is new to me.
So the  frequency response really can't help in achieving something more  neutral with equalization ?

The TH900s don't need EQ, at all. Whereas, the D7100 won't benefit much from it, because of the unusually pronounced distortion. It may help a little, but it isn't something you'd expect with $1200 headphones.

 

[MacedonianHero]

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This kind of reasoning is new to me.
So the  frequency response really can't help in achieving something more  neutral with equalization ?

 
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The TH900s don't need EQ, at all. Whereas, the D7100 won't benefit much from it, because of the unusually pronounced distortion. It may help a little, but it isn't something you'd expect with $1200 headphones.

 
That's the big problem I have with equalization...typically it adds to more distortion. Not a good thing!

 

[extrabigmehdi]

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That's the big problem I have with equalization...typically it adds to more distortion. Not a good thing!

What about linear phase EQ ?  They are supposed to limit phase distortions, from what I've understood.

 

[dharma]

Little overview about EQ, also about: “What is the reason for linear-phase EQ? “What is linear phase, and how does it relate to a minimum-phase EQ? “Why are linear-phase EQs so directed toward mastering?” “Can there be a hardware linear-phase EQ? Why or why not?” http://theproaudiofiles.com/linear-phase-vs-minimum-phase-eq/

 

[dagothur]

A FR graph hardly gives the whole story.  It can give an idea of flavor, but it doesn't tell you everything else that would tell you how good a headphone is.

 

[MHOE]

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A FR graph hardly gives the whole story.  It can give an idea of flavor, but it doesn't tell you everything else that would tell you how good a headphone is.

 
I would say that "idea of flavor" is pretty important... It really helps me to realise I have no interest in phones like HD800 or T1, Hifiman, Grado, Audio Technica without having to judge on subjective comments only. But I agree it is not everything.