Denon AH-P372 Review
Jan 11, 2010 at 7:59 AM Thread Starter Post #1 of 76

Seidhepriest

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Long story short, these can be the best all-around supra-aural foldable headphones recabled. Relatively cheap, small, not that difficult to recable, quick and lively, and good-looking. And, they're pretty good stock. At less than $50 off The Big Online Sales Site, they're great value. With some more money expended on John's silver-plated wires, heat-shrink, sleeving, plugs, etc. etc., these are magical.

[size=xx-small]Manufacturer Specs

Diaphragm size: 38 mm.
Nominal impedance: 35 ohm
Sensitivity: 100 dB/1 mW
Max. power input: 1000 mW
Frequency response: 10-22000 Hz
Weight: 140 g. excluding cable
Cable length: 0.5 metres
Cable extension length: approximately 0.8 metres[/size]

[size=xx-small]Quick Summary

Note: there are two versions of AH-P372, "dark" (late production?) and "bright" (early production?). The "dark" version is muter by some 9 dB: it has treble and high midrange dampened. The "bright" version is wonderful, and simply the best value in supra-aural headphones. How to distinguish the two versions: "bright" must be early production, so any set that's been shelved for a long time in a store is likely "bright". Of the two white (AH-P372W) sets here, "bright" had grey cushions, while "dark" had black pads. The review is of the "bright" headphones.


Headband holders can creak while moving. Creaking noise is made only when they don't fit snugly. Adjusting the headband so the cushions sit tight on the head fixes creaking. And it's not audible when playing through an amp anyway.

Overall they're like the AH-D1000 minus the ambience/space resolution. Great for rock and any "guitars/bass/drums/vocals" music.

The fit is a bit too tight the first couple of days, but then they relax and don't squeeze the ears much.

Bass is punchy, but not heavy. A tad too boomy and bloated at first. Dynamics are wonderful, drums are very "tasty". They're fast.

Oh, and. They've better resolution than the K-81DJ. K-81/K-518 are muddy, muddy, muddy, and with an exaggerated bass. Boombox on ears. AH-P372 are much cleaner. Also more comfortable than the K-81/K-518. And cheaper. More efficient. And they weigh less.

So in summary: good for almost any kind of music, great for rock/metal/anything energetic, a bit sterile in sound, fast dynamics, nice looks, good (though not stellar) resolution (a bit toyish sound, especially with pads/strings/anything "ambient"), fairly cheap.

For the money, there's hardly anything better.[/size]

And now, the full review.



It's a pity AH-P372 aren't given as much attention as they deserve, as they are great little foldable headphones, a tiny match for AH-D1001. So if you've been looking for something similar to AH-D1001 but "portable" and foldable, this is it.

AH-P372 are based on Foster model 022096.

Foster-022096.jpg


Foster specs:

[size=xx-small]Impedance: 44.0Ω ±30%
Nominal Power: 30mW
Maximum Power: 100mW
Sound Pressure Level: 100dB ±3dB[/size]


[size=xx-small]Folded over the stock pouch.[/size]

AH-P372 are Denon's first "portable" model. Closed (but ventilated, with "bass escape" holes). Foldable, and really smaller than they look in photos. Folded, AH-P372 fit in a hand's palm.



They were called similar to AH-D1001; they are, and in some ways they're like a "toy version" of the AH-D1001, though they have a bit different temper and a character of their own.



AH-P372 are "punchier", diaphragms sit closer to eardrums than with the AH-D1001. They can be deafening when driven loud (grumble, grumble, supra-aural). They're more aggressive than the AH-D1001. Of the two, the AH-P372 are the "rocker" set; AH-D1001 are more ambiental, relaxed, natural. Or, AH-P372 are much like supra-aural AH-D1001 minus ambience, some resolution, comfort, and with a bit more "squarish" and congested sound.



AH-D1001 and AH-P372 don't share diaphragms; AH-D1001 have "organic microfibre" 40 mm. diaphragms, AH-P372 use regular 38 mm. diaphragms. AH-P372 are slightly quicker and with a slightly more "technical" sound, though being supra-aural contributes to that.



Build is cheaper than AH-D1001, AH-P372 have coarser plastic seams, thin (and short) cables, and little metal in the frame (screws and wires). Metallic-looking cup rings are metallic-paint plastic. After the AH-D1000 with its magnesium headband and more refined materials, the AH-P372 did feel a bit cheapish. But they are tough, and won't get damaged when folded (tested when the pouch fell and rode a few metres over floor).



Cable is 0.5 m., extension is 0.8 m. Just enough for a notebook computer connection or a front panel PC connection. Without extension, the cable is long enough for a belt-mounted player or, for the taller people, player in a shirt pocket.

Comfort isn't that bad for supra-aural. Denon went for seal: AH-P372 won't move when in place, but the pressure can become painful after a couple hours. The pads are fairly soft, but there're more comfortable supra-aurals out there (Roland RH-50). AH-P372 can be adjusted for better seal and comfort, the pads' pressure has to be evenly distributed over ears. Seal, by the way, is impeccable. They just stay however they were adjusted.
At first they can try being squishy, but after a couple days of wearing the AH-P372 relax and don't press much. They can be stretched over something like a book pile. Cup holders are a bit loose and can rock, creaking during walking, but adjusting the headband so the cups are pushed slightly upwards fixes that. Creaking isn't audible with a headphone amp anyway.



Isolation's pretty good for something this small. When playing at moderate volume, they block street noise. Finger snapping or a kettle's whistle can't be heard.

Foster/Denon headphones have backwave acoustic tuning. The concept's the same as with ported speakers - backwave gets channelled front to reinforce the main output of the diaphragm. This has two basic effects: one, there's a slight delay and an effect of "volume" to the soundstage, and two, efficiency improves as backfire energy is not lost. Also, the cups are used to shape and generate a "natural" reverb (which does have a bit plasticky feel to it, but which is not honky as with cheaper closed headphones).



This is what "Denon's acoustic optimiser technology" really is about - it's a reflector design of the cups. AH-P372 have a small collector plate behind the diaphragms for the purpose, AH-D1001 have larger cups that are used as collectors.

The first trait of the AH-P372 that gets noticed is: dynamics. Foster dryish-but-dynamic sound. They're very fast, and can be very lively with the right kind of music. The problem with the stock set is that the midrange is a tad too flat. They pick up details OK, but midrange is a bit wooly. So instruments' bodies can blur together on a live/instrumental piece. This congestion is partly due to stock cable veil, partly due to efficient backwave tuning. On the second week of use they started to "open up", but before that the picture was weird - fast, detailed bass & treble, bits of midrange getting overshadowed and lost somewhere out there. Low midrange and bass are large-ish, even boomy & pushy at first. Bass boom reduces with burn-in.

AH-P372 can be bassy, but bass isn't the hard-slamming kind of K-81DJ bass. It's the softer, more rounded and a tad boomy kind. On the stock set, bassiness can be annoying at first, but they tame down with burn-in.

AH-P372, thanks to their quick dynamics, are very good with percussion. Drums are "tasty", they've depth, they're "3D". Any energetic music will cause foot-tapping. They're sharp and quick on attack, and that matches AH-P372 with fast music, like metal, rock, fast electro, etc. The closed (and isolating) headphones that can match open headphones in quickness. The one word that can describe AH-P372 is "speed".

Only problem with the stock AH-P372 is that sometimes bass can get slightly overdriven and bassy instruments can get pushed forward in the mix. On the first day, when playing "Take Five" from Dave Brubeck's live "Concord On A Summer Night" through the CMoy amp, fretless bass was overwhelming everything. Jumpy-happy, yes, energising, yes, but it was getting over the piano. After burn-in they settled down and no longer had the overwhelming bass, but it still tends to get a bit over everything.
AH-P372 aren't as bassy and hard-hitting as AKG K-81DJ/K-518DJ, but then the K-81 are the "savage basshead's" set.
Strings and pads aren't as prominent as they could be; sometimes they can get too thin in the mix. After burn-in (two weeks, over 30 hours), AH-P372 have become more positional, all pans and spacious swivelling pads are properly moving through space, which has gained size. The more delicate string/pad parts can still be a bit too thin and mute, but they've more presence. Bear in mind this is coming from AH-D1000 and recabled K-240 Studio, which have great ambient detail.
So, bear with them for a couple of weeks and they'll become more balanced.
AH-P372 are less detailed than AH-D1001, but this can be a "plus" of sorts: they're less demanding to sources and won't show deficiencies in the extremes (bass & space extension) as easily as AH-D1001. So for a portable player they're a very good match.



Some cotton stuffed to the sides of cups, to the reflector plate's sides, helps gain some space in the soundstage and makes the AH-P372 more civilised. Extra energy gets absorbed, bass gets tamed and boominess disappears. The ugly "hollow well" echo disappears. Midrange gets to where it should be. The trick is ensuring cotton is loose and soft, otherwise it can become a "second wall".



Recabled and modified, the AH-P372 are a completely different creature, stunningly fast, and with a lot of detail. Also aggressive. Stock quiet wooly cosiness is gone completely, they have more harmonic warmth than tonal warmth. Space and presence are stunning. Midrange is clean and clear. In short, recabled and modified, those are the portable headphones that can match studio kit. This isn't an exaggeration - they transmit records as intended, with details and mood that make a piece of music whole. Very, very musical, they've been playing for the last few days (and there're recabled K-240 Studio and AH-D1000 here). They're still a bit "loud" tonally, slightly more treble and bass than midrange, but the midrange is there and no longer "wooly", but very fluid and quick.

In summary, Denon AH-P372 are very good all-around portable headphones that do little wrong, and do pretty much everything right. Just like the rest of the Denon/Foster line, they're quick and lively, but the stock mistake of leaving space around the reflector gives a hollow echo/reverb which is like a reflexion from a large hole in the ground around the soundstage. The "cotton mod" can fix that. As a base for recabled portable headphones, these are probably the best there is, cost/value.
At less than $50 off EBay, they're easily some of the best portable headphones out there. Closed, efficient, and with good isolation.

So yes, they're recommended
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Jan 11, 2010 at 8:23 AM Post #3 of 76
Some music they've played: Jean-Michel Jarre - "In China" (2004, not 1981), "Oxygene 7-13", "Geometry of Love", "AERO", "Concerts in China" (1981), Pink Floyd - "Dark Side of the Moon" (original AP quadro mix downmixed to 2-channel, 96/24), The Alan Parsons Project - "Turn of a Friendly Card", "Eye In The Sky" (192/24), "Jan Garbarek - "In Praise of Dreams" - Count Basie - "Atomic" (96/24 mono vinyl copy), NIN - "The Slip" (96/24), Dave Brubeck Quartet - "Concord On A Summer Night" (1982, live, 96/24 2-channel SACD and 48/16 wave downsample for the portable player), "Time Out" (96/24 vinyl copy), Ketil Bjornstad - "Floating", Glenn Tipton - "Baptism of Fire", Judas Priest - "Painkiller", "Angel of Retribution", "Jugulator", "British Steel", George Gershwin - "The Piano Rolls", "Rhapsody in Blue" (Stockigt/Hiltawsky), Godflesh - "Streetcleaner", "Selfless", Jesu - "Silver", "Jesu", Strauss - "Also Sprach Zarathustra", Imogen Heap - "Ellipse", Vangelis - "Odyssey", Tangerine Dream - "Tyranny of Beauty" (home 96/24 remaster off the CD), "Blue Dawn", Kevin Schilder - Hexen II & Portal of Praevus soundtracks, Carcass - "Wake Up & Smell The Carcass", "Heartwork", "Swansong", Firebird - "No. 3" (MP3 192 kbps VBR), Chinese instrumental music - "Great China", home mixes of original Descent, Heretic, Hexen, Doom MIDI scores.

All music CD or lossless 44/16, unless noted.

Oh, and some original (self-made) music. 96/24, 96/32 and live off the keyboard.

Gear:

Cowon T2 player to Minibox-D/Walking Wolf CMoy amp (OPA2134PA);
Audigy-2 Platinum front panel output (Foobar2000 -> SRC resampling to 96 KHz -> ASIO 96/24, KS for 192/24);
some built-in laptop Sigmatel codec with a hump over 100 Hz range (makes everything sound "stiffer" than it really is).
 
Jan 11, 2010 at 8:39 AM Post #4 of 76
What's missing compared to AH-D1001:

1. Comfort. They're supra-aural.
2. Bits of low/mid-midrange. They're supra-aural.
3. Part of ambience and softness, they're more hard-hitting. They're supra-aural.
4. Some spatial detail and resolution. They're supra-aural.
5. Cable length. Cable is only 0.5 m. long. Extension makes total length something like 1.3 m., the cable on AH-D1001/AH-D1000 is 1.5 metres long.

What's there relative to AH-D1001:

1. They fold.
2. Surprisingly, they isolate at least as well as AH-D1000, if not better.

So in summary, for comfort, extra ambience, space, detail, resolution, go for AH-D1001. AH-D1001 are a lot better for travelling & outdoors, as they're hardly noticeable when worn. On the flip side, they cost at least twice as much.

In author's opinion, AH-P372 are easily the best portable supra-aural headphones under $50. Denon's suggested price is $60, but with some luck they can be found online for some $30-40 (the white sets cost $28 off an EBay store+shipping). K-81 were nauseatingly bassy, Porta-Pro are too 10-KHz (little space extension and an overall thick sound), PX100 sound too toyish. The other supra-aural headphones that can compare are Roland RH-50, but they're more demanding to power (they're actually quad-driver, with an extra set of tweeters). Maybe Yamaha RH5MA are a match, but they're more expensive, and they likely have slower dynamics.
 
Jan 11, 2010 at 9:59 AM Post #5 of 76
The recabled set tempts all the time. Not the most realistic sound (supra-aural), but very "phun" and lively. They just beg to play music through them.

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Jan 11, 2010 at 11:05 AM Post #7 of 76
Adjusting the headband so it has a tighter fit (cups pushing slightly upwards) removes creaking. It's not audible with the amp anyway.

How about an appreciation thread?
 
Jan 11, 2010 at 12:13 PM Post #8 of 76
Great review.

I was thinking of getting the PX 200 II , I listen to mostly Blues & Classic Rock,,,Do you have an opinion as to which of these two would fit the type of music I prefer?

Also, what would be the final cost for the Denon, after the modification's you suggest?

LQQK
 
Jan 11, 2010 at 12:29 PM Post #9 of 76
LJokerl has reviewed the PX200-II. PX200-II have never been through here, and they can't be tested anywhere around here (Mexico City), so really no idea.

Mod overview requires a new thread :)

Think some $30 in materials, John's SPC wire, sleeving, heatshrink, plugs.
 
Jan 11, 2010 at 12:38 PM Post #10 of 76
AH-P372 seem to have larger diaphragms, and they are larger, and guitar-based music sounds great on them, so they might be more like it. PX200-II are just too small. Stuff some cotton between the collector dishes and cups, and AH-P372 have great isolation. PX200-II cups are small, they just don't look like they can isolate much or have much space for backwave. AH-P372 will sound more powerful and have more impact. Recabled, they do some deep and fast bass and drums are really "3D" on them. Dynamics are very rock-friendly, guitars are great. Judas Priest was what they played best stock. Dave Brubeck also was pretty good. PX200-II might be "sweeter" as they seem to be smaller and have smaller diaphragms, but they likely won't have the dynamics or "3D" effect.
 
Jan 11, 2010 at 4:33 PM Post #11 of 76
Great review - very detailed and thorough. Not going to read the sound part in detail yet so it doesn't affect my own review of a stock set of P372s (coming eventually
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) but I like the format and summary
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.
 
Jan 11, 2010 at 7:43 PM Post #13 of 76
Since they're going to be compared anyway...

K-81DJ/K-518DJ have more of a midrange presence, and they're more "solid" with midrange instruments, like strings, pads, etc. Unfortunately, monstrous bass kills K-81 for many.

AH-P372 have a clean treble/treble extension. What AH-P372 does best of all instruments: saxophones, percussion, bass instruments, and guitars. Jan Garbarek's saxophone sounded hypnotising and full. Boots Randolph was, well, Boots Randolph :) Bass instruments come out right. Percussion is very "3D" thanks to the quick transients. So these can be good jazz cans.

Don't get this wrong, AH-P372 are very good all-around, not just with certain instruments. They're very balanced for portable headphones.

Grado and Alessandro headphones get recommended a lot for guitar-based music. Well, add the AH-P372 as they're very fast and fun with metal, rock, even strummed guitars.

What played best on them was Judas Priest and some classic rock (Uriah Heep, Deep Purple...). Carcass was suitably brutal. They play guitar bodies and rhythm section right, though acoustic guitars are slightly lacking.

K-81 might have a tad better isolation, but they're less efficient. Both AH-P372 and K-81 need a headphone amp to show what they can do, but AH-P372 are louder and fuller from a portable unamped.

K-81 are hard-hitting, which is what spoils them. Percussion tracks can be too much of a hammering. AH-P372 are more civil, they don't have the hard bass slam, and they paint percussion with more size.

The modified pair is already begging for a better source, showing how lacking the Audigy-2 front output is :frowning2: Wallet, meet diet...
 
Jan 11, 2010 at 8:52 PM Post #14 of 76
The sound is fuller with Minibox-D and portable player than with the Audigy-2 front output :frowning2:

The recabled set has just played:

007. Carcass - [Heartwork #04] Heartwork - nice, warm bass.
028. Blackstar - [Barbed Wire Soul #02] Smile
080. Firebird - [No.3 #09] Dream Ride - classic rock more than modern rock.
081. Firebird - [No.3 #10] Friend
097. Carcass - [Wake Up And Smell The Carcass #15] Genital Grinder II - brutal and raping.
083. Carcass - [Wake Up And Smell The Carcass #01] Edge Of Darkness - sounds like it.
58. Glenn Tipton - [Baptism of Fire #01] Hard Core - Glenn Tipton of Judas Priest, the darker-hair guitar player.
63. Glenn Tipton - [Baptism of Fire #06] Baptism of Fire [Instrumental] - sparkling.
31. Judas Priest - [Sad Wings Of Destiny #02] The Ripper
15. Judas Priest - [Jugulator #06] Burn In Hell
27. Judas Priest - [Angel Of Retribution #08] Hellrider
103. Uriah Heep - [Salisbury (Expanded De-Luxe Edition)] Lady In Black - when the distorted guitar enters, it is heavy. Violins are getting overwhelmed by guitars and percussion, they're behind everything else when they should be floating behind. Violins get masked in the end of the song. [Edit] it's the remaster, violins are more present in the older Salisbury CD.
084. Uriah Heep - [The Magician's Birthday (Remastered) #16] Gary's Song (Crystal Ball out-take) - this song was likely never released because of deep bass and heavy guitar. K-81 deep bass dynamics could've helped here, but as it goes, modded AH-P372 are close to classic monitor headphones, punchy but not boomy. The only letdown is slight plastic echoes from the reflector, but that might be fixed by a felt, paper, or fabric coat.
051. Uriah Heep - [High and Mighty #02] Weep in Silence - showing slight dirt in the left channel on Mick's guitar, bass kicks are very present. There's that CD flatness, but the AH-P372 get the most out of kicks.
142. Deep Purple - [Rapture Of the Deep #09] MTV - yep. The guitar could've been a bit more present, AH-P372 really like to paint drums large, but then maybe it's because of 192 kbps MP3.
187. Rushus - ["Stories" #02] Modal Blues - download it at their Themspace page - shows how hollow MP3 files are, but that's the closest to blues there is. Percussion driving again, very warm (theirs is a shamanic drummer, literally).
168. Ministry - [Psalm 69 #01] N. W. O. - thinnish guitar, low-res voice samples.
169. Ministry - [Psalm 69 #02] Just One Fix - drums are painted larger and more forward on the recabled set than the stock one: drums are in the background sides on stock, and large and to the sides in the recabled set. Stock are more forgiving to the CD and don't show how flat it really is.

So yes, it's all there. Big "guitar music approved" seal. It's been a bit of a classic rock orgy there, yes
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Jan 12, 2010 at 11:32 PM Post #15 of 76
This is obnoxious. Cowon T2 is doing some fatiguing loudness EQ even on "normal" EQ settings, so AH-P372 really aren't as "loudness-equalised" stock.
 

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