Denon AH-D9200 - 2018 Flagship - Impressions Thread
Dec 11, 2018 at 3:08 PM Post #181 of 4,360
Dec 11, 2018 at 3:38 PM Post #182 of 4,360

I would make a second opinion on some of the statements in the review. Note that the testing equipment quoted in the article IMHO is closer to mid-fi than to higher end: Marantz HD-DAC1, Marantz ND-8006, AK70. It may be fine for the D5200, but I think the D9200 would scale up in better company (perhaps even the D5200).

> The AH-D9200 are not yet hammering into the ultra hi-end level. They do not have such uncompromising resolution and dynamics as Focal Utopia. They do not sound as juicy and smooth as the Final Audio Design D8000. They are not as neutral and transparent as Sennheiser HD 820.

IMHO the D9200 is one of the smoothest headphones with a neutral but rich and colorful (juicy?) tonality.

IMHO the D9200 is far more neutral than the HD820, I compared them side by side for some time. They are similar in transparency, but the HD820 has far higher and wider sound stage. It's pity the HD820 is too much flawed for me to buy it even for half of its current price, it's just too honky in the upper bass and slightly too colored elsewhere - but it's definitely more fun, if someone can live with that applied to all music all the time.

I would be cautious saying the D9200 is less dynamic than the Utopia, I'd say there is not that much difference, but for music playback I clearly prefer the D9200 over the Utopia and also over the Final D8000. This is probably a personal preference, but wanted to say it to balance the review.
 
Dec 11, 2018 at 5:03 PM Post #183 of 4,360
I would make a second opinion on some of the statements in the review. Note that the testing equipment quoted in the article IMHO is closer to mid-fi than to higher end: Marantz HD-DAC1, Marantz ND-8006, AK70. It may be fine for the D5200, but I think the D9200 would scale up in better company (perhaps even the D5200).

> The AH-D9200 are not yet hammering into the ultra hi-end level. They do not have such uncompromising resolution and dynamics as Focal Utopia. They do not sound as juicy and smooth as the Final Audio Design D8000. They are not as neutral and transparent as Sennheiser HD 820.

IMHO the D9200 is one of the smoothest headphones with a neutral but rich and colorful (juicy?) tonality.

IMHO the D9200 is far more neutral than the HD820, I compared them side by side for some time. They are similar in transparency, but the HD820 has far higher and wider sound stage. It's pity the HD820 is too much flawed for me to buy it even for half of its current price, it's just too honky in the upper bass and slightly too colored elsewhere - but it's definitely more fun, if someone can live with that applied to all music all the time.

I would be cautious saying the D9200 is less dynamic than the Utopia, I'd say there is not that much difference, but for music playback I clearly prefer the D9200 over the Utopia and also over the Final D8000. This is probably a personal preference, but wanted to say it to balance the review.

Yeah, it's one of those things where I'm not sure if people are simply being informed by their expectations.

I agree with most of your comments too. I still have the Utopia. Try and try though I may, through different sources, I still can't hear it resolving more than the D9200 by any distinct margin. I loved the HD820, but also agree the honkiness is a flaw.

The Hifiman Arya is the only headphone I have on me that might be resolving more, but it's a very different sound, very big and more laid back, especially in the treble. The D9200 is smooth too, but has a lot of energy to it when called for.

Still, it was a positive review and ultimately the part I most agree with is that they are incredibly good all-rounders. Maybe not the very best for any particular genre, but not going to disappoint most people either. Really curious as to how some pad changes would affect the sound.
 
Dec 13, 2018 at 4:42 AM Post #184 of 4,360
Well, it turns out I'm still learning how to measure stuff.

I think the EARS is great for its price and goal, but it does have a few design quirks. While I took 5+ measurements when I posted the graphs last time, and thought that'd account for any errors in seal, it turns out that wasn't the case. The EARS has a few screws holding the rubber ear molds in place that protrude slightly and can measurably weaken the seal on headphones with thinnish pads like the D9200. I realized the graph I posted before made the D9200 seem brighter than I thought they were compared to other headphones tested, and noticed that a light amount of pressure to secure the seal significantly upped the bass measurements.

So I removed the offending screws and took a bunch more measurements. This is the average after 10 measurements once I removed the screws. 1/12 octave smoothing, HEQ calibration profile:
D9200 Frequency Response Fixed.jpg


And here it is compared to the original measurements I'd posted:
D9200 Frequency Response Old V new.jpg


A much more pleasing (and accurate) result if you ask me! Much less sub-bass roll-off, tamer high-mids. The 8.5khz area is still bright, which is how I hear them. Otherwise the D9200 is very pleasantly balanced.

Here's the RAW/uncalibrated response of one of the new measurements, once again with that non-existent 4.5k peak.
2018-12-13_4-38-05.jpg


I'll update with more comparisons soon now that I've got the measurements better, but the other headphones shouldn't change as much as the D9200 because of plushier pads or being open back. Aplogies for anyone I may have misled with my original measurements.
 
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Jan 25, 2019 at 3:14 AM Post #189 of 4,360
Just one question, do they sound better than the D7000?

IME the D9200 sounds more open, with deeper bass extension, a richer, nicer, warm yet still neutral tonality and nice harmonic structure.
Treble is on the brink of being too much for me, but it's less peaky than the TH900 for instance. IMHO they are warm sounding too, but not like the D7000, which is is sepia-warm, too thick velvet, yet sound with somewhat less body and darker in the same time. Maybe some people would prefer that, but IMHO it may be preferable with some genres only. Nowadays I prefer most Fostex-type closed headphones against the D7000: among all compromises, I prefer open sound.

However, after mods the D7000 will sound more open and that changes the picture - especially after the Klipsch HP-3 type of destructive mod. Or even by changing the cups damping. But that is different discussion. The D7000 drivers do have their signature, just like the TH900 drivers (which are better than the D7000 IMHO), but the D9200 drivers are near perfection (the blend of D7200 and D9200 would be the perfect one).

FWIW I kept only 2 closed headphones: the TH900 and the D7200, both modded. In some aspects I prefer them both vs the D9200 (since I couldn't easily tame the D9200 treble without compromising too much elsewhere), but as a whole, the stock D9200 is currently the best closed headphone in the market and not by a small margin. The HD820 is very different (quite divergent opinions if you check its thread) and only better in sound stage height, slightly better in sound stage width, but what concerns smoothness, neutrality, harmonic structure, the beauty of tone, IMHO the D9200 is better, especially for the price difference.

IMHO the reason the D9200 didn't catch hype is the price point. Just too much of a price jump for the improvements on the D7200, and even the D5200. They did optimize something, and it's close to state of the art in that sound style, the problem is that it seems to be niche, most people don't seem to appreciate these types of improvements. If the D7200 costs 800 euros, the D9200 should not cost more than 1200 euros. I hope Denon will reduce the price on them. Nota bene, IMHO the D9200 quality (cables, connectors, wood etc) is (nearly) the same as the D7200 and definitely not at the Fostex TH900 level, so the flagship's price point is just wrong.
 
Jan 26, 2019 at 9:22 PM Post #190 of 4,360
I just received a barely-used unit this morning. This is my first time really sitting down with a Denon of any kind. Don't have anything too insightful to say TBH, but here are some first-day impressions anyway (Sony WM1A DAP, single-ended).

- X-axis imaging and panning is really nice. This jumped out at me almost immediately.

- Treble is impressively resolving. And not overdone, to my ears. Actually, I'd say it's at least as resolving as the Eikon, which was the last pair of closed headphones I owned.

- Midrange/upper-midrange tonality is nice (whew!). I say "Whew!" because badly executed mids can ruin a closed back (Special shout out to the Elegia) (See what I did there?).

- Bass has tightened up some since this morning, when it sounded looser and more prominent (they had reportedly been played for just an hour by the original owner). Could be my brain adjusting as well, but I don't think it's 1OO% just me.

- I'm not a fan of the way the headband stretches out all horizontal-like atop my average-sized (??) head. Looks slightly dorky (wearing them in an open office and all that). But oh well.

- I was originally planning on listening to them just long enough to make sure everything was in working order before burning them in for 100 hours, but instead I ended up listening to them for the better part of the day. Still in the "new toy" phase (obvs), but still, very good sign for the new arrival.
 
Jan 29, 2019 at 4:25 PM Post #192 of 4,360
So far I’m rather surprised with the direction denon has chosen for this headphone - it seems neutral, bordering on bright... bright in the upper mids/low highs specifically, so it’s not painful like with the TH900, but makes it seem to lack some weight or low end grunt. Ends up being very ‘hifi’ sounding, rather than fun like the old ones.
The resolution seems quite good and well refined though... overall seems like a very good closed headphone, if not one of the best, but not really what I was hoping for from a Denon... Miss a bit of the D7000 kickass dna...
 
Jan 30, 2019 at 11:58 AM Post #193 of 4,360
I think that's a fair characterization (brighter-ish, hi-fi-like; refined). While still U-shaped, due to its treatment of the sub-bass. Not sure how much it diverges from previous Denons from my own experience, but I'm loving its sound profile so far.
 
Feb 2, 2019 at 4:03 AM Post #194 of 4,360
Definitely wouldn't call it U shaped, compared to the old school Denon and Fostex TH-600 or 900, which are the current relatives of the old denons; they seem to basically have no low-end what so ever, comparatively... as though they reach 70hz and then just roll off, if even that. To test it I just tried putting on an electronic track that normally has very prominent bass, and there seemed to be nothing happening. Then I took the same track, in a version that is bass boosted to a point that normally just sounds broken or distorted, but with the D9200 I could barely even tell - I mean I can hear the track has been altered, but there is still not much happening in the lower frequencies, compared to fx. Fostex TH-600 or B&W P9.
It also has much less treble than the TH-600 - generally D9200 is just very neutral/flat and smoother sounding by comparison.
In fact on brief comparison they're about the same compared to my HD800. The HD800 has the same or very slightly less sub bass, but a slight bit more midbass comparatively.
It is a far cry from the previous Denons in my opinion - its almost as though they noticed people had been trying to mod the old series to be more neutral for years, and decided to just do it themselves - but to my ears they overdid it a bit...

But I stand by the character described above; neutral/bright hifi sound, non-grainy, but detailed - in essence a very good headphone, in many ways... Just really not what I was expecting or looking for in a Denon...

Actually, comparing the two, on orchestral, the HD800 sounds more natural; much better separation of instruments and placement in soundstage (I suppose its not without reason it is often considered the soundstage-king), and the instruments sound less strident, less "in your face". I suspect, when looking at measurements, this has to do with the HD800 having a slope down between 1 and 7khz, where as what I've seen of the denon is relatively flat all the way. When keeping the Harman target response in mind, i then makes sense why the D9200 comes off as a bit too forward.
 
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Feb 2, 2019 at 4:58 AM Post #195 of 4,360
Okay, full comparison so far to the HD800:
Sub bass: D9200 has more.
Mid bass: D9200 has a bit more.
Upper bass: D9200 might be slightly ahead here as well in quantity.
Lower midrange: is about equal:
Mid and upper midrange: The D9200 has more forward pronounced signature in this area, the HD800 sounds a bit more distanced, providing more sense of space between you and the music, less "in your head".
Treble: Here they seem about equal, but the strident midrange of the Denon makes it less noticeable, where as with the HD800 the treble can seem bright compared to the midrange, making transients and details stand out, at the cost of max tolerable volume. The Denon also sounds bright, but has less of this detail-emphasizing effect.

In terms of detail, the HD800 has the edge with more clearly defined micro detail and granularity, where the D9200 sounds more smooth. However the D9200 is by no means a slouch, it does by no means sound like its lacking detail, only on direct comparison to the HD800 do you notice there is a bit more to be gained.

Soundstage/imaging: The HD800 is the clear winner here. With the HD800 you can clearly tell the instruments apart ("The guitar is slightly to my left, the drums are in a arc slightly right of the guitar, and the violin to my right a bit further back", that sort of thing), and the space with the HD800 is bigger, as the instruments sound more as tough in front of you in a room, vs in your head with the D9200. That being said the D9200 makes a very good effort, still creating a sense of space, placement and separation in most cases, just not quite on the level of the HD800.
To be more precise or realistic: The D9200 places the instruments/music on a line going right through your head, arcing forward slightly, with decent separation between those two points (your ears). The HD800 sounds like an arc from each ear going our in front of your face, maybe 10cm in front, allowing it to have more depth in its sound stage to work with, and more specific direction.

Now where the D9200 has an enormous advantage: Its sound is definitely competitive with various open flagship headphones, BUT, it is closed, seals outside noise fairly well, and it is small for an overear, light, and feels very solidly built. And sits very firmly, yet comfortably on my head. This is also an area where it bests the old Denons which were in essence semi open.
 
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