[RoadHazard]

I bought a pair of AH-C551s the other day, and while I think they sound completely awesome in quiet environments (and there wasn't much noise in the store when I bought them, so I didn't really notice this then), it's a bit of a different story when I get on a bus or a tram; I can hear basically everything that's going on around me (though it's muffled, of course). This is kind of an issue for me, since I was planning on using them a lot on my daily tram rides (about an hour or more a day), and the mediocre isolation really degrades the sound quality when there's a lot going on around me. It also kills that nice feeling of being alone with your music. Plus, it makes me want to raise the volume of the music, which obviously isn't good for my ears.

I don't think the problem is that I'm not getting a proper seal when inserting them, because I can't see how I could possibly insert them any more securely than I am. Has this by chance got anything to do with Denon's "acoustic optimizer", which is supposed to adjust sound pressure balance in front of and behind the diaphragm? Or am I simply not getting a proper seal, even though I think I am? Any ideas?

BTW, I'm using the medium sized rubber tips that were included with them. I'm pretty sure that the large ones are too large for my ear canals.

 

[soozieq]

RoadHazard - you won't get total isolation from the Denons so you're still going to get background noise leaking through. But I found the music to be 'full' enough that external noise didn't bother me at all.

If you want more isolation, maybe you should look at true iems rather than canalphones. Having said that, I found the Denons isolate somewhere between a canalphone and an iem which is fine for me.

 

[RoadHazard]

Quote:

Originally Posted by soozieq /img/forum/go_quote.gif RoadHazard - you won't get total isolation from the Denons so you're still going to get background noise leaking through. But I found the music to be 'full' enough that external noise didn't bother me at all. If you want more isolation, maybe you should look at true iems rather than canalphones. Having said that, I found the Denons isolate somewhere between a canalphone and an iem which is fine for me.

Yeah, I guessed that may be the case. Would something like the Shure SE210s or D-Jays give better isolation? Though I really doubt the sound quality of those are as great (in good conditions) as the C551s. What a pickle.

 

[soozieq]

Quote:

Originally Posted by RoadHazard /img/forum/go_quote.gif Yeah, I guessed that may be the case. Would something like the Shure SE210s or D-Jays give better isolation? Though I really doubt the sound quality of those are as great (in good conditions) as the C551s. What a pickle.

The Denons sound much better (to me) than the Shure SE210. I did like the 210 when I had it, but I found it was only suitable for certain types of music (much like the 310!) whereas the Denons sound good with all styles.

The Shures will isolate more (if you can get a good seal) but it really lacks the bass impact of the C551. They have even more bass than the C700 so I think you'd be disapponted with the Shures if you like the Denon bass.

I have no idea about the d-JAYS so can't comment, but I'm sure someone else will

 

[RoadHazard]

Quote:

Originally Posted by soozieq /img/forum/go_quote.gif The Denons sound much better (to me) than the Shure SE210. I did like the 210 when I had it, but I found it was only suitable for certain types of music (much like the 310!) whereas the Denons sound good with all styles. The Shures will isolate more (if you can get a good seal) but it really lacks the bass impact of the C551. They have even more bass than the C700 so I think you'd be disapponted with the Shures if you like the Denon bass. I have no idea about the d-JAYS so can't comment, but I'm sure someone else will

Thanks for the comments!
Yeah, I've read before that the bass response of the SE210s isn't that great. The bass in the C551s is just like I want it (punchy, defined, without drowning out the rest of the music), and I wouldn't want it any less present, so I guess the SE210s are not a good option for me.

 

[RoadHazard]

Sorry for this shameless bump, but...

I think I've managed to get a better fit with my C551s, which should help my isolation issues. I've come to the conclusion that the medium rubber tips included with the C551s are actually a bit large for my ears; I really have to push them in forcefully to get a decent seal, and for some reason it only works if I put them in "upside down" (with the cable behind my ears). Putting them in with the cable hanging down doesn't seem to work at all. And if they come out a bit, I have a bit of trouble getting them in there again. They also kind of makes my ears hurt, so they are clearly too large.
The small tips go in much easier (both ways), but I don't think they give the seal I need, and they feel like they may easily fall out. So here's what I did:

I took the rubber tips from my old cheap canalphones that were included with my SonyEricsson W810i Walkman phone. These are just a tiny bit larger than the small ones included with the C551s, and that small difference seems to do the trick. I can get them in without having to use very much force, and they seem to give me a much better seal (surprisingly so, since the size difference isn't very noticable). I get very defined bass, and I believe they isolate better than the small ones included with the C551s. I've still to try them out in really noisy environments, but I've tried with the TV on in the background at a pretty high volume, and when the music is playing I can pretty much not hear the TV at all. When the music is paused, however, I can hear the TV pretty well, but I really think the isolation is better.

So, hopefully this will solve my problem and make me not regret getting the C551s (which I, as I've said, think sound fenomenal otherwise). It feels a little wierd to have to use the rubber tips from my cheap pack-in Walkman canalphones, but whatever does the trick is good enough for me! You don't think using these cheap tips will degrade my sound quality in any way, right?

 

[soozieq]

Quote:

Originally Posted by RoadHazard /img/forum/go_quote.gif You don't think using these cheap tips will degrade my sound quality in any way, right?

You said the bass was more defined, so it can't be degrading the sound quality can it? And if your Sony phone tips are like the EX tips, then you have a great alternative to the stock ones. I'm using the ones that came with my Sony daps and I prefer them to the Denon tips. And I found them slightly shorter than the stock tips, (they sit slightly shy of the end of the nozzle) although you're saying they're bigger - so maybe the tips you're using aren't quite the same. Hmmmmm

Anyway, you've managed to get a better fit with different tips. If you look in the Denon thread, there are quite a few posts about using alternative tips. And the C700s use the same tips as the C551s so they'll all fit.

It's surprising how much difference a tip can make. Even though it might look the same - it can alter the sound quite dramatically. It's well worth experimenting with various tips till you're happy with the sound. And if that still doesn't work - sell the phones here

 

[RoadHazard]

Quote:

Originally Posted by soozieq /img/forum/go_quote.gif I'm using the ones that came with my Sony daps and I prefer them to the Denon tips. And I found them slightly shorter than the stock tips, (they sit slightly shy of the end of the nozzle) although you're saying they're bigger - so maybe the tips you're using aren't quite the same. Hmmmmm

Sorry, I didn't mean they were really bigger - just slighly wider. It's the ones included with the HPM-70s:

I'm pretty sure it's the smallest of the three pairs on the image, but I don't know where the other ones have gone, so I can't be completely sure.

Quote:

Originally Posted by soozieq /img/forum/go_quote.gif And if that still doesn't work - sell the phones here

That's easier said than done, since I'm in Sweden (and I'd guess few others on these boards are)!

 

[voicemaster]

I just found that the Denon's original tips (all sizes) don't isolate well. I tried it back and fourth between Sony and Denon tips, and i found out that the Sony give tighter high, mid and bass. I think it's due to the material each made of (both give very good fitting so it's not fitting issue). The Denon has this matte surface while the Sony has slick surface.
And from your picture, they look the same as my Sony tips which is not weird at all because of the same brand lol. "It feels a little weird to have to use the rubber tips from my CHEAP pack-in Walkman canalphones" = the Sony tips are the best way to go with Denon canalphones (cheap, practically you can find it everywhere on the net).

 

[soozieq]

Yes, the tips you're using look the same. It would have been easier to see a pic of them on the Denons so I could see where they end. But I'm pretty sure they're the same tips I'm using. Look at the very edge of the tips (the small bit beneath the ridge) - is it slightly lighter in colour than the main material? If so, I'm sure they're the same. You can get 'compatible' tips really easily, but they're not quite the same. The genuine Sony's are softer and smoother than the 'compatibles', and slightly shorter in length.

 

[RoadHazard]

Quote:

Originally Posted by soozieq /img/forum/go_quote.gif Yes, the tips you're using look the same. It would have been easier to see a pic of them on the Denons so I could see where they end. But I'm pretty sure they're the same tips I'm using.

Here you go:

Sorry about the crappy image quality (camera phone). Hopefully you can tell if they're the same as yours!

Quote:

Originally Posted by voicemaster /img/forum/go_quote.gif I just found that the Denon's original tips (all sizes) don't isolate well. I tried it back and fourth between Sony and Denon tips, and i found out that the Sony give tighter high, mid and bass.

Yeah, I think you're probably right about that! Well, it's a good thing I thought of trying the Sony tips then.

 

[soozieq]

Quote:

Originally Posted by RoadHazard /img/forum/go_quote.gif Here you go: Sorry about the crappy image quality (camera phone). Hopefully you can tell if they're the same as yours!

Yeah, they're the same

That's probably why you're getting better bass and isolation. Look after them until you get some replacements. But remember you need the genuine Sony tips - not the compatibles. The Sony ones come in a pack of 3 - s/m/l, so you have to pay for 3 pairs in order to use one pair!!!

 

[RoadHazard]

Quote:

Originally Posted by soozieq /img/forum/go_quote.gif Yeah, they're the same That's probably why you're getting better bass and isolation. Look after them until you get some replacements. But remember you need the genuine Sony tips - not the compatibles. The Sony ones come in a pack of 3 - s/m/l, so you have to pay for 3 pairs in order to use one pair!!!

Would these be the right ones?

Amazon.com: Sony MDR EX71 Replacement Silicone Ear Tips: Everything Else

 

[soozieq]

Quote:

Originally Posted by RoadHazard /img/forum/go_quote.gif Would these be the right ones? Amazon.com: Sony MDR EX71 Replacement Silicone Ear Tips: Everything Else

It certainly looks like them, but I'd maybe contact the seller to make 100% sure they're Sony tips, and not just 'Sony compatible'. The fact he's selling 3 separate sizes in one package makes me think they're the genuine ones, and he may have written 'replacement' simply because they'd replace the ones you have!

Here are my Sony tips on the Denons. Now you can see they're the same (and fit slightly short of the nozzle) Ignore the colour, I had to use the flash.

 

[RoadHazard]

Yeah, they look about the same. But you're using the medium size, right? If you're using the small ones, like me, the C700s must be much smaller (in width) than the C551s. But they both use 11mm diapragms, so they should have about the same circumference?