[zolkis]

I'm just curious, is there anybody out there, who uses these cans +DAP as a portable rig on a daily basis?

I have found the D7200 and the Sony ZX2 a great sounding pair. Good synergy between them, more so than with the TH900.

 

[zolkis]

To the Fostex vs Denon driver dispute. The D7200 driver is different from both the TH600 and TH900 drivers in the magnetic circuit, driver membrane (free-edge nano-fiber), and voice coil (CCAW, copper coated aluminium wire).
It is more linear than the Fostex drivers and goes as deep as them. Also, dynamics are similar with the TH900 (just listen/measure with the same pads on both). The enclosures and driver loading are also different, Denon had done a better job in making a more linear headphone, but in stock form the TH600, TX00 and TH900 sound louder with more excitement - and more bass boost and more edge in the treble, too. When you change pads on the D7200, they become much louder with bigger stage and more bass dynamics and perceived extension. I recommend trying the TH900 pads on the D7200. However, it takes time to start appreciating what the D7200 does well (even in stock form, I mean).

 

[dbatti]

I have found the D7200 and the Sony ZX2 a great sounding pair. Good synergy between them, more so than with the TH900.

Thank you for your reply, could you also mention a cable for portable use?
Should I just order a custom made specimen? I think making OFC cables is not that easy, not sure though, how much negative affect it had if I'd sold one with quality cable and some Neutriks.

Cheers from Budapest
És további szép estét!

 

[GU1DO]

To the Fostex vs Denon driver dispute. The D7200 driver is different from both the TH600 and TH900 drivers in the magnetic circuit, driver membrane (free-edge nano-fiber), and voice coil (CCAW, copper coated aluminium wire).
It is more linear than the Fostex drivers and goes as deep as them. Also, dynamics are similar with the TH900 (just listen/measure with the same pads on both). The enclosures and driver loading are also different, Denon had done a better job in making a more linear headphone, but in stock form the TH600, TX00 and TH900 sound louder with more excitement - and more bass boost and more edge in the treble, too. When you change pads on the D7200, they become much louder with bigger stage and more bass dynamics and perceived extension. I recommend trying the TH900 pads on the D7200. However, it takes time to start appreciating what the D7200 does well (even in stock form, I mean).

i agree the 7200 have more balanced sound and i can recommend it without pre audition any time for any one and just changing the cable will be enough to reach better sound ,, but to me i think withe the right record and amp , the TH900 have more expensive sound representation with better sound stage , imaging , bass , its just that it is a picky headphone like the HD800.

I will try the 7200 with the 900 pads (stock and dekoni) and will see how it goes ,, although i am totally satisfied with just the cable change ..

 

[SRKRAM]

Thank you for your reply, could you also mention a cable for portable use?
Should I just order a custom made specimen? I think making OFC cables is not that easy, not sure though, how much negative affect it had if I'd sold one with quality cable and some Neutriks.

Cheers from Budapest
És további szép estét!

I use the 1.5m Beyerdynamic T5P.2 / T1.2 cable for pretty much all headphones with 3.5mm TRS connectors. Works well with the D7200s. It's good quality and not too expensive.

 

[Maxx134]

I recommend trying the TH900 pads on the D7200

Upon closer inspection, the th900 pads are almost exactly like my Ether Electrostatic pads...
Very similar large inner diameter , except the th900 pads have slightly less angled pads,
So I believe the th900 pads are a better buy if they cost less.
The Ether electrostatic pads cost around $100US , so not cheap.
Both those pads are the best for giving the most spacious soundstage for these type cans family (applies to TH-X00 also, but not the ZMF Eikon I tried, as it is a different non-ported design)
Most other pads are simply NOT good enough, although my ZMF ORI pads are plush and a more fun/bassy sound with less soundstage.
Fostex knew what they were doing with the larger earpad diameter, to help promote a least altered, reference sound.

Denon has truley made a great superior driver over the current Fostex lineup, but they haven't learned and made some really annoying idiotic blunders:
1- Cheap looking TH-X00 type pads on a reference can
2- Softening/lowering the Treble down
3-making the cups more shallow than a TH-X00

The combination of these three blunders are critical and I am not going to soften these points as we could go on for days about the results of such errors,
some of which have been cried about already in past pages.

For instance, You simply cannot have such shallow cups and expect to be reference, but hey, they will keep Lawton Mods company busy.
The THX-00 has about a quarter inch more interior depth, which makes a difference, and is a more ideal size as it is not noticably larger.
I am waiting for Lawton to come out with a 7200 cup, as it is not interchangeable with any others.
maybe a 3D printed extension/washer between cup and driver would be cheapest route.

Its really sad, as Denon with its great new driver could have been the best, and truly beat the competition if not for these flaws.
As for now the only way to improve is to mod.

 

[Maxx134]

I saw on Denon site the mm400 was stated to be some paper composite/carbon blend, and the 7200 says some sort of nano fibre. But at same time, biodyna/biocellulose from microbial source used in the past also were highly regarded as the r10 showed.

Thats just the diaphram composition using different names for what is basically the same basic design, of biocellulous mix.
Denon states its diaphram/membrane to be stiffer with the use of carbon, and also ZMF Eikon using a similar biocellolous material.
The highly regarded R10 used a special encousure and its motor/magnet/voicecoil was different as well,
So the point it that it is not just the diaphram material but those other aspects .

I used the MM400s on a daily basis, also while commuting and at the office. The little membrane covering fabric parts are hold in place by no mechanical fixing but maybe with a little adhesive. These got loose first, then simply fell out, and I could not put them back, because there is no where to. This is a joke... also the stock cables and the plastic parts feel cheap, the parting lines are ugly, especially around the connector. Don't get me wrong, I love those cans, but I thought I will get better quality for such amount of money.

This does not make any sense, as there is no external plastic parts on the mm400.
It is one of the highest quality portables, with only metal/wood and even the Denon logo is metal.
Only the headband has cloth underside, and the earpads are some pleather.
Stock cable is thin and soft but durable and not cheap.

Anyways, although the 7200 seems very low profile, for portable I would use smaller.

 

[Jimster480]

Hello everyone!

I'm just curious, is there anybody out there, who uses these cans +DAP as a portable rig on a daily basis?

I've got an AH-MM400, and a HiFiMan 901s, and I think soundwise these are great. But lately I got a warranty issue with the MM400 (and please don't talk about the bugs of the 901s...).
I used the MM400s on a daily basis, also while commuting and at the office. The little membrane covering fabric parts are hold in place by no mechanical fixing but maybe with a little adhesive. These got loose first, then simply fell out, and I could not put them back, because there is no where to. This is a joke... also the stock cables and the plastic parts feel cheap, the parting lines are ugly, especially around the connector. Don't get me wrong, I love those cans, but I thought I will get better quality for such amount of money.

So I was thinking lately, what could I do, if I love the sound of the AH-MM400, but I want a higher level quality headphone. Hence the question, is the AH-D7200 any good for daily portable use, or shall I seek elsewhere? If the answer is yes, I would also need a decent quality short cable ~1.2m (without a mic of course).


Thank you and have a nice day!

Sounds like you have a fake AH-MM400.

If you like the AH-MM400 sound signature, you will hate the D7200 as it sounds NOTHING like an MM400 and is basically inferior in every way (if the MM400 flat sound signature is what you like).
I had an MM400 and I made the grave mistake of purchasing these in thinking they were an upgrade only to hate them completely.
If you want to make the same mistake as me please send me a message and I will sell you mine which have virtually ZERO use.

 

[zolkis]

Upon closer inspection, the th900 pads are almost exactly like my Ether Electrostatic pads...
Very similar large inner diameter , except the th900 pads have slightly less angled pads,
So I believe the th900 pads are a better buy if they cost less.
The Ether electrostatic pads cost around $100US , so not cheap.
Both those pads are the best for giving the most spacious soundstage for these type cans family (applies to TH-X00 also, but not the ZMF Eikon I tried, as it is a different non-ported design)
Most other pads are simply NOT good enough, although my ZMF ORI pads are plush and a more fun/bassy sound with less soundstage.
Fostex knew what they were doing with the larger earpad diameter, to help promote a least altered, reference sound.

We see that the same way. Over the ~100 pad variations I have tried on more than a dozen of headphones, I seem to prefer relatively flat pads with large inner opening. Within that, the ear pad filling (mass, density distribution) matters a lot.

Denon has truley made a great superior driver over the current Fostex lineup, but they haven't learned and made some really annoying idiotic blunders:
1- Cheap looking TH-X00 type pads on a reference can
2- Softening/lowering the Treble down
3-making the cups more shallow than a TH-X00

The TX00 type pads make the FR more linear... IMHO oval opening is fine, and preferable to circular one, provided it is large enough. For me the best stock pads are the Stax 009 pads.

For instance, You simply cannot have such shallow cups and expect to be reference, but hey, they will keep Lawton Mods company busy.
The THX-00 has about a quarter inch more interior depth, which makes a difference, and is a more ideal size as it is not noticably larger.
I am waiting for Lawton to come out with a 7200 cup, as it is not interchangeable with any others.
maybe a 3D printed extension/washer between cup and driver would be cheapest route.

Its really sad, as Denon with its great new driver could have been the best, and truly beat the competition if not for these flaws.
As for now the only way to improve is to mod.

I think the midrange bump on the D7200 is due to the shallow cups, but they do prevent other issues that are present with larger cups (bass moves to be more overwhelming but somewhat hollow).

Nevertheless I'd be interested to
1) try the D7200 driver in the TH900 enclosure (I will not do it)
2. make larger cups for the D7200 (much more complex and expensive than TH900 cups)
2) make replacement cups to the D7200 that are semi-open like the Klipsch Heritage HP-3.

 

[dbatti]

This does not make any sense, as there is no external plastic parts on the mm400.
It is one of the highest quality portables, with only metal/wood and even the Denon logo is metal.

Oh, believe me, there are plastic parts. I work in the automotive industry, I've seen things
For example chrome finished plastic interior parts, which are cool to the touch, feels like aluminium or chrome, or whatever, but really it's just a finishing coat on cheap plastic.
Same as the MM400 headband mechanisms. It scratches easilly and even from small mechanical impacts it gets bumps - can be seen by sunlight. And my favourite part, the splitline around the connector - see included pic from the internet with my markings. I don't know what kind of tooling issues they could have, but these are ugly as hell. And this is 100% plastic, without chrome coating. I was blown away by the wooden cups and the logo, until I saw the connector. I was able to forgive that, because you don't see that part often.

I haven't even mentioned, that the left cup (wired one) made sometimes annoying crackling noises while moving around. Not the membrane, not my ears, but the cup structure itself.

Sounds like you have a fake AH-MM400.

No, it is the real deal. I bought it from an official dealer. I think there are no fake ones thanks to the cups, this is a thing I like abou it... When it does not make the noises.
Maybe this specimen is one of the early models, but I think the "fabric placeholder thing" is a design flaw which they might never can get rid of.


All in all, I love its sound and as for the material quality: it still beats most of its rivals... wich makes me a bit sad (also had a Focal Spirit Classic, headband and mechanism are a disaster).

 

[SHAMuuu]

Thats just the diaphram composition using different names for what is basically the same basic design, of biocellulous mix.
Denon states its diaphram/membrane to be stiffer with the use of carbon, and also ZMF Eikon using a similar biocellolous material.
The highly regarded R10 used a special encousure and its motor/magnet/voicecoil was different as well,
So the point it that it is not just the diaphram material but those other aspects .


This does not make any sense, as there is no external plastic parts on the mm400.
It is one of the highest quality portables, with only metal/wood and even the Denon logo is metal.
Only the headband has cloth underside, and the earpads are some pleather.
Stock cable is thin and soft but durable and not cheap.

Anyways, although the 7200 seems very low profile, for portable I would use smaller.

Thank you for that information. Yes i did have some confusion because of the different names they use, or lack of information. E.g with the mm400/7200. Denon didn't use the term biocellulose, but ZMF and Audioquest, VSonic, and Panasonic Did. I know the Panasonic RPHX650k used the same driver as Creative Aurvana live (Foster biocellulose 40mm) , VSonic with its Sony Licensed 11mm biocellulose. ZMF didn't state if its plant based fibers, paper fibers, or microbial sourced. However owner said it is "biocellulose + polyurethane." Audioquest i emailed and they did confirm it is microbial based biocellulose but did not specify if they are licensed by Sony, but in another forum stated it is not Denon/Foster drivers. So diaphragm material is not the be all end all at the end of the day, as i understand the whole mobile assembly including surround and voice coil, as well as the magnet structure with its flux rating is important also. The synergy of it all. But the r10 was famous for its bacteria derived biocellulose, and its important to see that is different from paper fiber, plant fiber etc. As well the fillers are different. Also the cost of the bacteria derived biocellulose is much more expensive, so it can command more money to the plant based(paper fiber) process. Anyway, who cares right?

Nonetheless, the sound matters at the end. But its also nice to know what is it that one pays for when we move into the higher $$$ brackets.

 

[ruhenheiM]

do anyone know about the reliability of bio cellulose drivers? especially in high humidity countries, could it last in a person lifetime or at some years the diaphragm going to die? i read sony have this kind of the issues

 

[Jimster480]

Oh, believe me, there are plastic parts. I work in the automotive industry, I've seen things
For example chrome finished plastic interior parts, which are cool to the touch, feels like aluminium or chrome, or whatever, but really it's just a finishing coat on cheap plastic.
Same as the MM400 headband mechanisms. It scratches easilly and even from small mechanical impacts it gets bumps - can be seen by sunlight. And my favourite part, the splitline around the connector - see included pic from the internet with my markings. I don't know what kind of tooling issues they could have, but these are ugly as hell. And this is 100% plastic, without chrome coating. I was blown away by the wooden cups and the logo, until I saw the connector. I was able to forgive that, because you don't see that part often.

I haven't even mentioned, that the left cup (wired one) made sometimes annoying crackling noises while moving around. Not the membrane, not my ears, but the cup structure itself.




No, it is the real deal. I bought it from an official dealer. I think there are no fake ones thanks to the cups, this is a thing I like abou it... When it does not make the noises.
Maybe this specimen is one of the early models, but I think the "fabric placeholder thing" is a design flaw which they might never can get rid of.


All in all, I love its sound and as for the material quality: it still beats most of its rivals... wich makes me a bit sad (also had a Focal Spirit Classic, headband and mechanism are a disaster).

Check out bosshifi B8. They are knockoff Mm400s.
Its just that I have it too and haven't found any plastic.
Send me a pm and I'll try to confirm any plastic.

 

[xinghui0711]

Check out bosshifi B8. They are knockoff Mm400s.
Its just that I have it too and haven't found any plastic.
Send me a pm and I'll try to confirm any plastic.

They look like entirely two different headphones? There is no way that anyone would mistakenly buy B8 when looking for MM400s.

 

[Jimster480]

They look like entirely two different headphones? There is no way that anyone would mistakenly buy B8 when looking for MM400s.

Entirely different???????
Other than exactly the same right?