Denon AH-7200
Nov 26, 2017 at 5:28 PM Post #1,486 of 2,488

GU1DO

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To the Fostex vs Denon driver dispute. The D7200 driver is different from both the TH600 and TH900 drivers in the magnetic circuit, driver membrane (free-edge nano-fiber), and voice coil (CCAW, copper coated aluminium wire).
It is more linear than the Fostex drivers and goes as deep as them. Also, dynamics are similar with the TH900 (just listen/measure with the same pads on both). The enclosures and driver loading are also different, Denon had done a better job in making a more linear headphone, but in stock form the TH600, TX00 and TH900 sound louder with more excitement - and more bass boost and more edge in the treble, too. When you change pads on the D7200, they become much louder with bigger stage and more bass dynamics and perceived extension. I recommend trying the TH900 pads on the D7200. However, it takes time to start appreciating what the D7200 does well (even in stock form, I mean).

OK i tried the th-900 pads and i see what you are aiming for ,, sound stage is bigger but details and imaging is defused and less clear ,
separation is better but less contrast , bass is taking its space but not coherent with the rest freq.
not sure if i look for these compromises , it is better getting th900 to start with, and then mode it , because it have better / more powerful cups/driver

what Denon did is very nice , its like a premium quality th-x00 , with improved sound signature ( more balanced th900 sound as a whole )
and for the mean time i still prefer the stock pads which i think is the right degine for its driver , and just using the Sony Kimber Kable is giving me the best experience and if i need more , i will just use my th-900 :)
 
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Nov 26, 2017 at 5:56 PM Post #1,487 of 2,488

ruhenheiM

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Entirely different???????
Other than exactly the same right?

maybe i need some weed
AH-MM400-cover_NA_US_16032016.png

Original-BossHifi-B8-HiFi-Wooden-Metal-Headphones-Black-Mahogany-Earphone-Dynamic-Stereo-Headband-Headphone-Moniter-Headset.jpg_640x640.jpg
 
Nov 26, 2017 at 6:18 PM Post #1,488 of 2,488

Beagle

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Nov 27, 2017 at 5:23 AM Post #1,489 of 2,488

SRKRAM

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Sounds like you have a fake AH-MM400.

If you like the AH-MM400 sound signature, you will hate the D7200 as it sounds NOTHING like an MM400 and is basically inferior in every way (if the MM400 flat sound signature is what you like).
I had an MM400 and I made the grave mistake of purchasing these in thinking they were an upgrade only to hate them completely.
If you want to make the same mistake as me please send me a message and I will sell you mine which have virtually ZERO use.

The MM400s are good but, to my ears, the D7200s are better in every way. I've owned quite a few headphones, and the D7200s are some of my favorites. Their sound doesn't immediately jump out and grab your attention like some do, but they got me to kick the Beyerdynamic habit. They have very high levels of micro detail without having artificially boosted treble.

To me, the biggest fault with the 400s was that there could be quite a bit of bass bloom with certain tracks - I find the 7200's bass to be much better controlled, and doesn't bleed into the mids like with the 400's. I wonder if your 7200s are faulty or have been tampered with (modded) - did you buy them used?


-Mark.
 
Nov 27, 2017 at 3:49 PM Post #1,490 of 2,488

zolkis

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OK i tried the th-900 pads and i see what you are aiming for ,, sound stage is bigger but details and imaging is defused and less clear ,
separation is better but less contrast , bass is taking its space but not coherent with the rest freq.

Thanks for trying that! Very clear justification. FWIW I don't have a stock TH900 pad any more (I had 3, all modded with carbon foam). I'd disagree with the diffused imaging, but we have not tested the same pads either. The carbon foam padding makes instruments very clearly delineated and defined in size and time. Soft padding tends to get it more diffused (e.g. the stock foam in the TH900 pads is rather soft with small porous structure).

Here is a comparative FR of the D7200 between the stock pads, modded TH900 pads, and the Chinese TH900 replacement pads (pops up also as D7000 replacement pad, but it's the same).

d7200-pads-fr.jpg

You can see the stock pads are almost anemic in bass and have a relatively big midrange bump.
The spectrograms illustrate what the perceived sound energy distributions are. See the stock vs the Chinese pads SG.

d7200-stock-spectro.jpg
d7200-chin-spectro.jpg

The perceived midrange prominence of the stock D7200 is well visible on the upper spectrogram.
The Chinese pads look better in the mids+treble, and bass boom is still less than with the TH900.

That being said, these measurements imply bigger subjective differences than what I actually hear in reality - but the difference is there and it's along the lines shown above.
There are equipment pairings with which I also prefer the stock D7200 (perhaps pads or brain burn-in?). For instance the stock D7200 is quite pleasant with the Sony ZX2 DAP.

Note. To illustrate a headphone which also has a midrange bump, but doesn't sound "ringing" or having any issues with the mids. It sounds completely neutral, but on measurements all e-stats show that small midrange bump. Here is the Stax 009 spectrogram and FR.
009-spectrogram.jpg
009-fr.jpg
(Note the total lack of any treble issues, except some irregularity that may come from measurements).
 
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Nov 27, 2017 at 5:40 PM Post #1,491 of 2,488

nick97

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How are these with portable technology like laptops or iPads? I'd love to get an answer from someone who has tested them :) I would consider buying an after-market cable that terminates to 3.5 mm if they sound good with Portables
 
Nov 27, 2017 at 5:49 PM Post #1,492 of 2,488

tgx78

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Sounds great out of portable DAP.
 
Nov 27, 2017 at 6:06 PM Post #1,493 of 2,488

Slim1970

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Nov 27, 2017 at 7:37 PM Post #1,495 of 2,488

xinghui0711

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How are these with portable technology like laptops or iPads? I'd love to get an answer from someone who has tested them :) I would consider buying an after-market cable that terminates to 3.5 mm if they sound good with Portables

Portable devices nowadays are sufficient. Pairing them with dedicated source/amp though would never be a bad thing.
 
Nov 27, 2017 at 8:23 PM Post #1,497 of 2,488

tgx78

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Thanks for the reply! That's good to know, by the way what cable is that and is it balanced?

Sony MUCB12SM1 single ended.
 
Nov 28, 2017 at 4:46 PM Post #1,500 of 2,488

GU1DO

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Thanks for trying that! Very clear justification. FWIW I don't have a stock TH900 pad any more (I had 3, all modded with carbon foam). I'd disagree with the diffused imaging, but we have not tested the same pads either. The carbon foam padding makes instruments very clearly delineated and defined in size and time. Soft padding tends to get it more diffused (e.g. the stock foam in the TH900 pads is rather soft with small porous structure).

Here is a comparative FR of the D7200 between the stock pads, modded TH900 pads, and the Chinese TH900 replacement pads (pops up also as D7000 replacement pad, but it's the same).



You can see the stock pads are almost anemic in bass and have a relatively big midrange bump.
The spectrograms illustrate what the perceived sound energy distributions are. See the stock vs the Chinese pads SG.




The perceived midrange prominence of the stock D7200 is well visible on the upper spectrogram.
The Chinese pads look better in the mids+treble, and bass boom is still less than with the TH900.

That being said, these measurements imply bigger subjective differences than what I actually hear in reality - but the difference is there and it's along the lines shown above.
There are equipment pairings with which I also prefer the stock D7200 (perhaps pads or brain burn-in?). For instance the stock D7200 is quite pleasant with the Sony ZX2 DAP.

Note. To illustrate a headphone which also has a midrange bump, but doesn't sound "ringing" or having any issues with the mids. It sounds completely neutral, but on measurements all e-stats show that small midrange bump. Here is the Stax 009 spectrogram and FR.


(Note the total lack of any treble issues, except some irregularity that may come from measurements).
maybe i descried it with over exaggeration regarding the imaging diffusion , but still i don't like it , it was not in line with my taste
i think i need to try your modded pads ,, they look promising :)
 

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