DENAFRIPS Terminator: the King of R2R dac
Feb 15, 2021 at 11:03 AM Post #751 of 794

Articnoise

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One thing for sure, with all these updated versions coming so quickly there will be an abundance of nice used products available online for immediate purchase! 😃

You are a true glass-half-full person.
 
Feb 16, 2021 at 12:30 PM Post #753 of 794

Articnoise

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Feb 17, 2021 at 4:02 PM Post #754 of 794

Cakes

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The Terminator II DAC, is a trickle down of the Terminator-Plus DAC.

TII.jpg

Improvements of the Terminator II over the Terminator:
- Total segregation of Digital Signal Processing and R-2R Network Arrays (Analog) boards
- Oven-Controlled Crystal Oscillators replace the TCXO clocks
- High-speed Digital Isolation. The silicon-dioxide (SiO2 ) isolation barrier with isolated power supply effective isolate the ground and block the noise from one end to the other
- Redesigned Power Supply Unit (encapsulated underneath the DAC boards)
- Supercapacitors for Digital & Analogue circuitry for high energy storage to ensure supply of constant cleaned DC power to the circuitry
- Clock Out eco-system to sync with DENAFRIPS DDC, and future DENAFRIPS components

The Terminator is shape shift into the molten metal!

So excited to be awaiting my Terminator II dispatch :)

Any observations from new owners will be wholeheartedly savoured between now and my March arrival date..

Easy to have gear lust but existing Terminator owners are, I'm sure, still running one of the finest DACs around - too many famous and not-so famous folks have testified what a beautiful piece of audio the Terminator equates to. I've heard one myself and that sound was - and still is - beguiling beautiful today. Look forward to joining the club!
 
Feb 28, 2021 at 4:13 AM Post #755 of 794

bmichels

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A Terminator II version !! Caramba, I am already outdated !
 
Mar 9, 2021 at 8:21 PM Post #756 of 794

Potassic

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Hi @alvin1118, could you please share the order of superiority between the clocks of Hermes, Gaia, Terminator II and Terminator Plus? I assume the order is:
Hermes < Gaia = Terminator II < Terminator Plus

If the clocks of a DDC and a DAC are on the same level (say that of Gaia and Terminator II), would it still be beneficial to feed the clock from a DAC to a DDC? Many thanks.
 
Mar 9, 2021 at 10:26 PM Post #757 of 794

ppnuts

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Hi @alvin1118, could you please share the order of superiority between the clocks of Hermes, Gaia, Terminator II and Terminator Plus? I assume the order is:
Hermes < Gaia = Terminator II < Terminator Plus

If the clocks of a DDC and a DAC are on the same level (say that of Gaia and Terminator II), would it still be beneficial to feed the clock from a DAC to a DDC? Many thanks.
I've had the Terminator and added the Gaia to it (Mode A). The outcome was astonishing: improvements were immediate and easily noticeable. A lot more minute details, highs were crisp and bass was more punchy and solid. Couldn't resist the temptation and upgraded to Terminator Plus. Connected the Gaia to the TP, first without the clock activated (Mode B). This setup sounded very similar to that of the previous T + Gaia, but was better tamed, organic and with much more 'ease'. (Must say the T + Gaia still has top notch performance in my memory) Then came the TP + Gaia with clock sync activated (Mode C). Overall sound quality was about the same as Mode B's. Careful listening revealed that the sound stage was much wider and deeper. Position of singers and instruments could be pinpointed. Lots of space between them. Never had this feeling with the over 10,000 albums in my NAS.
 
Mar 9, 2021 at 11:55 PM Post #758 of 794

ppnuts

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I've had the Terminator and added the Gaia to it (Mode A). The outcome was astonishing: improvements were immediate and easily noticeable. A lot more minute details, highs were crisp and bass was more punchy and solid. Couldn't resist the temptation and upgraded to Terminator Plus. Connected the Gaia to the TP, first without the clock activated (Mode B). This setup sounded very similar to that of the previous T + Gaia, but was better tamed, organic and with much more 'ease'. (Must say the T + Gaia still has top notch performance in my memory) Then came the TP + Gaia with clock sync activated (Mode C). Overall sound quality was about the same as Mode B's. Careful listening revealed that the sound stage was much wider and deeper. Position of singers and instruments could be pinpointed. Lots of space between them. Never had this feeling with the over 10,000 albums in my NAS.
 
Mar 10, 2021 at 12:08 AM Post #759 of 794

ppnuts

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Perhaps an account of my DAC journey would help. From 2016: Holo Spring Level III + Singxer SU-1, then SU-6, Terminator + SU-6, Terminator + Gaia, Terminator Plus + Gaia. Each and every time, the change yielded better results.
The rest of my gear: Lumin U1 + Ken Lau LPS, Questyle CMA 12 (Master), Sennheiser HD800, Audeze LCD3, ARC Ref 6, Pass Labs XA160.8, B&W 802 D3, Shunyata Triton + Typhon and cables.
 
Mar 10, 2021 at 4:25 AM Post #760 of 794

Cakes

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Hi @alvin1118, could you please share the order of superiority between the clocks of Hermes, Gaia, Terminator II and Terminator Plus? I assume the order is:
Hermes < Gaia = Terminator II < Terminator Plus

If the clocks of a DDC and a DAC are on the same level (say that of Gaia and Terminator II), would it still be beneficial to feed the clock from a DAC to a DDC? Many thanks.

Here's what I recently received by email from Denafrips on my TII Production order update, which suggested to me (and I'll await Alvin's input....) that the T+ and TII clock components are of shared quality:

The Terminator II DAC is a big leap forward, of which leveraged the technologies found in the Terminator Plus DAC - OCXO, Supercapacitors, Clock-Out, Segregation of Digital/Analog circuitry, just to name a few. It is essentially a trickle down of the Terminator Plus DAC. What's more exciting? The Clock-Out feature of the T-II will be able to synchronize the precision OCXO clocks with the DENAFRIPS DDC, further improve the Digital front-end to another level.
 
Mar 12, 2021 at 10:58 PM Post #761 of 794

Potassic

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Thanks for sharing @ppnuts, @Cakes. I have been very interested in the Gaia + Terminator Plus combo, wanting to take advantage of the clock sync feature. I was pretty much one click away from ordering this set but then I discovered there is Terminator II, which is some 30% cheaper and only lacks the premier precision OCXOs as Alvin mentioned above. I can smell that Terminator Plus II is on the horizon; maybe I shall wait and see what additional features Denafrips will bring. I look forward to a MQA module like Metrum/Sonnet does for its R2R DACs.
 
Apr 25, 2021 at 6:46 PM Post #762 of 794

martin778

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Seeing the TII release I feel like I've got kicked in the nuts for buying a Chinese DAC again, no not because they are bad but because these things depracate worse than a brand new Alfa Romeo. Topping, SMSL, Matrix - all the same, after a year nobody wants them because they are a seasonal hype, then the manufacturer tweaks a few things, some folks start writing essays on how it makes it a 'game changer' (how typical in audio) and the new hype train departs.
They promised the Termi to be the 'reference' for the next couple of years still they release a new model 1-2 times a year making the previous lose 50% of the value because they start putting the previous TOTL features into cheaper models. :frowning2: It was kind of predictable though but for me one last time I bought Chinese gear. Sorry for the rant, justr having a bitter taste in my mouth seeing how quickly they release these things....my Termi lost like 60% of it's value within a few months now.
 
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Apr 25, 2021 at 9:21 PM Post #763 of 794

Egill23

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In a way I can understand that, I bought my Terminator late in December would surely have waited for Terminator 2 if I knew about it, especially for the clocking possibility with the Hermes. Then again, someone has to be the last to buy the outgoing model and just because a new/better version is coming out it doesn't change one bit about what you have. I think it is still a really good Dac and I don't feel I got hyped into buying a product that didn't live up to what I thought of it. Rather the other way around, I have upgraded and tweaked a lot of things with the network and power and the Terminator has not been the limiting factor yet. I think it is mostly a feeling of missing out for me. If they hadn't made an upgraded version, I wouldn't have felt any urge to upgrade. The only problem would be if you want to sell it for some reason, but then again the value depreciation of Dac's has always been a problem and I knew that when I bought it.
 
Apr 26, 2021 at 12:22 AM Post #764 of 794

ppnuts

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In a way I can understand that, I bought my Terminator late in December would surely have waited for Terminator 2 if I knew about it, especially for the clocking possibility with the Hermes. Then again, someone has to be the last to buy the outgoing model and just because a new/better version is coming out it doesn't change one bit about what you have. I think it is still a really good Dac and I don't feel I got hyped into buying a product that didn't live up to what I thought of it. Rather the other way around, I have upgraded and tweaked a lot of things with the network and power and the Terminator has not been the limiting factor yet. I think it is mostly a feeling of missing out for me. If they hadn't made an upgraded version, I wouldn't have felt any urge to upgrade. The only problem would be if you want to sell it for some reason, but then again the value depreciation of Dac's has always been a problem and I knew that when I bought it.
Couldn't agree more. The devil is in one's own heart.
 
Apr 26, 2021 at 8:09 AM Post #765 of 794

sajunky

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Seeing the TII release I feel like I've got kicked in the nuts for buying a Chinese DAC again, no not because they are bad but because these things depracate worse than a brand new Alfa Romeo. Topping, SMSL, Matrix - all the same, after a year nobody wants them because they are a seasonal hype, then the manufacturer tweaks a few things, some folks start writing essays on how it makes it a 'game changer' (how typical in audio) and the new hype train departs.
They promised the Termi to be the 'reference' for the next couple of years still they release a new model 1-2 times a year making the previous lose 50% of the value because they start putting the previous TOTL features into cheaper models. :frowning2: It was kind of predictable though but for me one last time I bought Chinese gear. Sorry for the rant, justr having a bitter taste in my mouth seeing how quickly they release these things....my Termi lost like 60% of it's value within a few months now.
Well, then you should perhaps buy at a proper time Audio GD R2R-11 $349. It had been discountinued since beginning of this month and imediately appeared on Aliexpress. Three sellers are offering this DAC at an inflated price starting on $415 and ending $753, about the same price as Ares II and no support. Jokes aside, your feeling is in result of believing in a marketing hype.

Do you know details Terminator Plus / Terminator II USB implementation of ports isolation? I am interested whether it still do reclocking on the USB port. Or it is just a galvanic separation of different boards (each with their own power supply). Asking because USB is able to deliver data frames synchronised with a high quality DAC internal clock (no reclocking required), but such implementation becomes a challenge in a case when galvanic isolation is in place. It is easier just to reclock with a loss of quality in result.
 

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