Denafrips Sub-Brand or Rip-off? The case of Musician Audio's Pegasus R2R DAC
Aug 15, 2020 at 8:24 AM Post #91 of 304

sajunky

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Yes but Pegasus uses the exact same " Proprietary USB Audio Solution via STM32F446 Advanced AMR Based MCU " USB. Letter per letter exact. Strange then, no? I'm 99.9% sure the Windows driver for Denafrips product will work on Pegasus too.

PS can you link the copycat Ares ladder? I don't hink I ever saw that one hehe
A "Proprietary USB Audio Solution" do not belong to the Denafrips nor Magicians Musicians. It is a third-party product, a property of TheSyscon. Both companies bought a licence to use TheSyscon libraries in their product, so a driver downloaded from the official website is designed to work with both. If they didn't, then they have problem with TheSyscon or they will... in a near future.

A copycat is called Airist. I reckon, I made a mistake. It was a little known Chineese developer who raised a claim agains drop company. It doesn't really matter, as Airist sounds poor. It is selling for $350, but for the same price I have Audio GD R2R11 which include a good quality headphone amplifier. It takes no brainer which to chose from...
 
Aug 31, 2020 at 7:24 AM Post #94 of 304

m-i-c-k-e-y

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Aug 31, 2020 at 8:12 AM Post #96 of 304

kvad

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Any updates from owners of the Pegasus DAC?

There's another impression over here https://soundex.ru/en/obzory/sources-obzory/musician-pegasus/

I'm personally confused that some reviewers claim Pegasus sounds better than entry-level Denafrips, others think Ares II is better. Who to trust!

From what I've read so far it seems it's character is rather different from Denafrips and the more "soulful" character often associated with R2R DACs. So perhaps more a matter of taste? Would be great to see a direct comparison to the Ares/Pontus on one side and something like the Topping D90 on the other.
 
Aug 31, 2020 at 10:17 PM Post #98 of 304

]eep

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I'm personally confused that some reviewers claim Pegasus sounds better than entry-level Denafrips, others think Ares II is better. Who to trust!

Read carefully, compare and do some background research. Something journalists, reporters and reviewers don't seem to bother with these days (or decades).
Read the soundex review. It reads exactly like the press release. And exactly like the start of the Darko review. It's just like the state sponsored tv news in my country, and neighboring countries (like BBC etc), using exactly the same phrasing. Translated word for word the same as the news in the USA, including anglicisms (english phrases literally translated which are incorrect in other languages). What does that tell you? Either they are incredibly lazy, dumb, uninterested or... they do as they are told (for whatever reason! ).

So, who do you trust? Trust your own judgment after due diligence.

I bet a comparative review will be out of the question. To use a germanism: verboten!
 
Sep 1, 2020 at 2:35 AM Post #99 of 304

smallcaps

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Read carefully, compare and do some background research. Something journalists, reporters and reviewers don't seem to bother with these days (or decades).
Read the soundex review. It reads exactly like the press release. And exactly like the start of the Darko review. It's just like the state sponsored tv news in my country, and neighboring countries (like BBC etc), using exactly the same phrasing. Translated word for word the same as the news in the USA, including anglicisms (english phrases literally translated which are incorrect in other languages). What does that tell you? Either they are incredibly lazy, dumb, uninterested or... they do as they are told (for whatever reason! ).

So, who do you trust? Trust your own judgment after due diligence.

I bet a comparative review will be out of the question. To use a germanism: verboten!
So much this ∆

Even the title of this thread is biased. I would either wait till the DAC is in the hands of everyday users so we can at least read the perspectives of a larger sample size, or try to hear the unit for yourself. Any purchase, especially from a new company and double-especially in the audiophile world is a gamble.

There are so many variables: synergy with other system components, quality of files, recordings... even the shape of one's ear, will bias the information. The only sure way to move forward is to ultimately trust your own ears. And if that is not possible, then everyday user accounts and measurements are your next bet.
 
Sep 1, 2020 at 2:41 PM Post #100 of 304

tuckers

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That last review was incredibly lazy and I wouldn't rely on anything this reviewer said. Nothing comparative, setting it up in a newly assembled system with no context, relying on another friends comments. If anything that should just be a first impressions thread.
 
Sep 2, 2020 at 8:00 PM Post #101 of 304

]eep

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So much this ∆

Even the title of this thread is biased. I would either wait till the DAC is in the hands of everyday users so we can at least read the perspectives of a larger sample size, or try to hear the unit for yourself. Any purchase, especially from a new company and double-especially in the audiophile world is a gamble.

There are so many variables: synergy with other system components, quality of files, recordings... even the shape of one's ear, will bias the information. The only sure way to move forward is to ultimately trust your own ears. And if that is not possible, then everyday user accounts and measurements are your next bet.

I'm not sure I agree. Ears can be fooled without proper training. That makes experienced reviewers (even biased) better suited than a body of dull amateurs. Quality over quantity. Over time you can judge a professional reviewer. You can easily rig any poll by posing the wrong question. As the topictitle shows.


You talk about variables, I see it more as pieces to a puzzle when it comes figuring out who to trust. If you know the viewpoint of a reviewer you know how to interpret what he says (and fill in the blanks). So you turn the piece around and it fits the picture.

You mention things that can influence 'information'. No, it influences data. Systematic or tandom errors. When you properly corellate the data you obtain information. But the bias of those reviews is more malicious. It feins objectivity and accuracy but there is a an obvious agenda behind it. When you do your due diligence this should be obvious.

And as to gambles... when an amateur buys stock its a usually a gamble, when a pro buys it; they don't gamble. They might take a calculated risk but they dont gamble. Watch 'the wolf of Wall Street' ; who do they sell the junk stock to? Is that honest business? No. But you can get rich with it.

And measurements? Really? Trust your ears? Yes, with experience or training. Measurements... that you even dare bring it up in an R2R thread. :stuck_out_tongue_winking_eye: Measurements mean nothing, mostly it's just marketing lies. And don't you contradict yourself here? Measurements vs trust your own ears?

So, you say sensible things, but your logic is off. Yes, sound quality depends on a slew of things. The marketing of the Musician dac comes across as shady to me and it doesn't give an honest answer to the questions about sound quality.
 
Sep 2, 2020 at 11:59 PM Post #102 of 304

smallcaps

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I'm not sure I agree. Ears can be fooled without proper training. That makes experienced reviewers (even biased) better suited than a body of dull amateurs. Quality over quantity. Over time you can judge a professional reviewer. You can easily rig any poll by posing the wrong question. As the topictitle shows.


You talk about variables, I see it more as pieces to a puzzle when it comes figuring out who to trust. If you know the viewpoint of a reviewer you know how to interpret what he says (and fill in the blanks). So you turn the piece around and it fits the picture.

You mention things that can influence 'information'. No, it influences data. Systematic or tandom errors. When you properly corellate the data you obtain information. But the bias of those reviews is more malicious. It feins objectivity and accuracy but there is a an obvious agenda behind it. When you do your due diligence this should be obvious.

And as to gambles... when an amateur buys stock its a usually a gamble, when a pro buys it; they don't gamble. They might take a calculated risk but they dont gamble. Watch 'the wolf of Wall Street' ; who do they sell the junk stock to? Is that honest business? No. But you can get rich with it.

And measurements? Really? Trust your ears? Yes, with experience or training. Measurements... that you even dare bring it up in an R2R thread. :stuck_out_tongue_winking_eye: Measurements mean nothing, mostly it's just marketing lies. And don't you contradict yourself here? Measurements vs trust your own ears?

So, you say sensible things, but your logic is off. Yes, sound quality depends on a slew of things. The marketing of the Musician dac comes across as shady to me and it doesn't give an honest answer to the questions about sound quality.
I hear you and thank you for disagreeing with my agreeing with you. As always, our opinions are our own, and while I do read and hear your opinion, just like mine, it is only an opinion.
 
Sep 3, 2020 at 12:03 PM Post #103 of 304

sajunky

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Yes, sound quality depends on a slew of things. The marketing of the Musician dac comes across as shady to me and it doesn't give an honest answer to the questions about sound quality.
Marketing of the Musicians is based on the old (and proven on this market) rule that more expensive imply better goods. Most of claims are lacking a substance and from the beginning it became clear that Pegasus comes from the same Denafrips factory. It is why there is no bias in a subject.

For Denarips another brand means a better utilization of production facilities, otherwise they would complain. For the consumer it can be beneficial if Musician will grow over the time. For now they count on the uninformed customers.
 
Sep 3, 2020 at 3:03 PM Post #104 of 304

tuckers

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So... I ordered a Musician in July, and they let me know that it would be a while before they ship. They also told me that they run each DAC in for a couple of weeks testing, because they need to ensure the resistors all stay within spec. This made sense to me, and frankly I'd prefer a product that ships all the way from China with no locals dealers to be burned in and tested first. So I have been ok with this delay. An R2R dac has a lot of resistors and you want to be sure they are working optimally. Also, the resistors they use in the R2R are a tighter spec than many other R2R dacs as I understand it.

I've just been notified that its ready to ship. So I should get it in a week or so? They said they would upgrade shipping because of the delay.

I have a lot of experience with DACs (well actually, I used to be a manufacturer in digital high-end audio), but I've been actively out of the audio hobby over 10 years, and have been re-acquainting myself with gear in the last year. The Musician seems like a compelling combination of features, I don't have much experience with R2R dacs, and this seemed worth the risk based on the cost/performance. But I'll find out if I like or not.

Also to add to the confidence in the company, I've been corresponding with them via email since my order and they actually called me yesterday, on the phone (!) to see if I'd like to change colors since I guess the silver color is popular.
 
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Sep 10, 2020 at 3:43 AM Post #105 of 304

tuckers

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I got the Musician today. The packaging was adequate, but nothing like the Topping products I've gotten in the past etc, if you care about such things. It's heavy! Connected right up and started playing music. No fuss. Used two USB devices, a Allo Digital USBridge Rasberry Pi streamer (Linux) and an NVidia Shield (Android TV). Struck by how open, detailed and airy it sounds out of the box. Room acoustics and inner instrument sounds stand out. It even had some good deep tight bass. 16 bit recordings sounded better in NOS mode than the same upsampled to DSD512 via Roon. Much more detail, spaciousness. Interestingly playing regular TV shows and YouTube videos showed extra depth and detail as well. Time will tell how it sorts itself out.
 
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